You seem to have not noticed that on November 2, 2004, the American people gave a big middle finger to socialism, terrorism, anti-Americanism, and other assorted pathologically deranged "isms". You and your ilk are being flushed down the toilet bowl of history.
Have a splendid day!
To ITT moderator; This "discussion" at this point is going nowhere. PATRIOT obviously is living in another reality--where the fact that Americans are so isolated that they actually get upset when people from England (the Guardian letter-writing experiment) tell them that the rest of the world thinks "Dubya" is a nut. But to answer him with a diatribe in which one says 'we're out to make your life miserable' or 'we're out to get you' is really almost as silly. Workers' rights were barely mentioned in the debates (now Bush is planning to change the entire pay structure for federal employees (Washington Post this morning). The discussion of the minimum wage was totally superficial and even the discussion of social security was so cropped that nobody (except those who already know) could possibly understand how destructive "privatization" actually is (no matter how "small" the percentage is going into private funds). There are other answers to the social security debate that have been proposed by organized Labor and others that are not even discussed. As usual, organized Labor and other "left" leaning progressives were totally taken for granted by Kerry. While Bush could just mobilize his base with a few proclamations about abortion or even his modified "gay marriage" nonsense, Kerry did not push hard on issues that go beyond "terrorism" and war (all Kerry kept saying was that his hammer is just as good as Bush's even though the war on terrorism involves a whole lot more than that--justice for the Palestinians being one). I would like to mention to PATRIOT that the left in the United States apparently takes the promises of "justice" too far regarding present day reality--as if it were easy to see. I *am* better informed about many things than most Americans. This is partly because I have taken the time to do the research and been involved in movements that "connect the dots" regarding social and economic justice. Most people in this country are not exposed to these issues (the Labor movement is largely insular here in Chicago, so I can assure you that 90+% of people here have no conception of what Labor is interested in nor have they heard of such potentially important institutions as Jobs with Justice, the Interfaith--yes "faith"--Committee on Workers Rights or any number of other groups that might inform them as to how they might observe the world differently than what is pushed in the media. The Kerry campaign did little to shed light on these issues or to gain militancy except among people who were actually motivated by being against the war. As for patriotism, the left rescued American folk music from being totally forgotten. The left wrote many of the best songs calling for the justice that we seem to naively believe to be the promise of the United States. The left pushed for all the Civil Rights legislation that we have. We pushed for public education (that the right later defunded). We have done our civic duty through mass action as opposed to using money as our motivating factor. PATRIOT should know that Johnny Cash is far more popular in the rest of the world than the American military. The neo-cons have failed in Iraq and will continue to fail because they are pure ideologists---as is the religious right. One thing this election helped clarify is how far the "angry white men" will go to rationalize voting for a rich Republican from Maine who masquerades as a "regular guy.".......Dennis Dixon
Hollywood is filled (albeit there are a few exceptions) with people who have absolutely no core. I'll elaborate. These are people who are famous and are nationally and internationally admired for their talents. The are rich, famous, live the way they want to live in every aspect. They lack something though, values. Hollywood representing America is as ludicrous as a statement could be. America is not Hollywood. It's a place filled with miserable people. My wife used to live there and even back when I voted for Gore, yes, Gore, she had always told me about what a horrible place it is.
That's said, ok so what's my point. These people, the "elite" are .. I'm sorry, were trying to effect the outcome of the election. I thought they had a chance but the average American came through and shined. We proved so many people and nations wrong. I have no problem with Democrats. In fact, that fellow from Illinois, Obama, he looks like a cool character. It's the extremists I have a problem with. That goes for both sides might I add. No one wants an extremist in office. Clinton brought his policies as close to the center as he could through a bit of triangulation.
What so many people fail to understand is this is a different world we live in. I do not agree with everything Bush has done or is doing. He scores very high though with how he is handling the war and terror. If you even believe Michael Moore for one minute that terror is not a threat. Do America a favor and a) move b) rid us of your presence or c)go ahead and just throw yourself off a building.
Failures in Iraq. This one is great. Exercise. It hurts right? It really hurts the day and days after an intense workout right. Well here's a nice analogy. On that 2nd day after a workout, you feel like shit, yes? Are you a failure? In your minds, yes, ok, refer to the throwing yourself off of a building suggestion. OK, in reality, NO you are not a failure. You're in a process of rebuilding. Ok, lets represent some resistance, oh wait we already had that with doing repetions and yeh... ok do you get the point? If not... yes, jump off a building, ... more than 10 stories at least please.
9/11 Ok, how many of you nuts believe it was planned? By Osama? .. Bush? If you answered Osama skip this part. If you answered Bush. Go jump off of a building. This is fun. The commander in cheif is charged with protecting our country. You get one point here, that was a failure on the current administrations part. But lets make it half a point. Too many people harp about how they should have known about it. The problem is this. This world is huge (relatively) We can see an army coming across the Atlantic or the Pacific. We just didn't have the capacity to catch a handful of people devising a brilliant plan. Yes, it was brilliant, effective, yes? It did the job so it was a success for them. Now to you Michael Moore lovers. What was your first reaction upon hearing the news on that day? I'll give you a minute to think. Most of you would say, damnit, he should have jumped up and strapped on his gun and went out shootin'. Uh, no, I think his reaction was as human as most of ours was. I want a human being in office. Not a robot. While we haven't been attacked since, it doesn't mean it won't happen again, no matter who is in office. This is why we must be vigilent in every possible way.
I've gone on way too long. I'll jump right to the end here.
America voted in who they thought the right person was. A popular vote of 3.5 million more than the opponent is a nice margin. Clinton never went above 50%. Why was Bush able to? Because people are stupid? Would people be just as stupid is Kerry had won?
The republicans have increased their power in the house and the senate. Unprecedented. Why is this? The democratic party is enslaved by the extreme left. These people are a danger to the very things we hold dear. Moral values. Yes, .. dare I say it... GOD??!! What is so taboo about beleiving in a higher power. Do you know what it does? It humbles you. We should be humble. Not fatso movie makers thinking they know everything. Ok I am being way too mean to Michael Moore... no I'm not.. ha.
In a closing word. Bush's acceptance speach was good. He made it short and simple and got to the point. We need to reach across to you, the left, and try to bring in some bipartisanship to this country. Some say we should reach across and slap you. I won't go that far.
The thing that I felt was even better than the acceptance speach was Kerry's concession. He did the right thing to the highest level. I found few things to admire about him but when I heard his speach, I heard a human being talking. We did not need another 2000 this time around. That is what divided us. 1960, 50,000 vote separated Kennedy and Nixon. Nixon could have fought it. He did not. He chose to concede for fear of dividing the nation.
I hope we all learned something. Let's move on
You are a narrow minded fool that does not understand anybody if they do not subscribe to your logic, and therefore you hate them. This would include the democrats, Europeans, Arabs and the rest of the world. For you there is only American democracy and nothing else. You forget that this planet is made up of people different from you that also have the right to live. And for you success is measured in how much you earn. How narrow minded can some people be. Patriotism is a call to arms to defend yourself against someone else because they do not think like you. Its called civil war. Dump that shit in the toilet and stop subscribing to that mentality shmuck.
No Patriot, delusion is to mislead. That is more precisely what Bush did in lying about the aluminum tubes, and the yellowcake uranium to illegally invade Iraq. Nor did I vote for Kerry who clearly supported Bush's support of Sharon's Mideast peace plan, again a clear violation of international law. I expected the Democrats to lose, because they abandoned their base to become pseudo Republicans. Harry Truman once remarked that when an electorate is given a choice between a republican, and a Republican, they're going to choose the Republican every time. And while G.W. Bush is a Republican, he is not a conservative. He in truth is more of a Trotskyist attempting to export his brand of freedom. Frankly, freedom should be the work of the local populace, and not American troops. You though, Patriot, have been led around by the nose by Likud partisans to believe in the quite un-American doctrine of preemption, something every true conservative from Eisenhower to Reagan would have found repugnant. Indeed, G. H. W. Bush had to get rid of the neo-cons during his administration. Get some anger management therapy, Patriot, before you blow a gasket. You'll need it when the neo-cons leave Bushites holding the bag for failures in Iraq.
I thought I'd help "Dreamer" out with some more tips for the lost souls (a.k.a. liberals):
1) If you want the American people to support your guy for President, don't enlist your most liberal Senator to run for the office - especially one with an embarassingly dumb bitch of a wife.
2) If you want the American people to NOT turn away from your party in disgust, don't embrace propagandists such as Michael Moore. Though you may love him, everyone else hates a liar.
3) In the future, you may want to try to base your argumentation on actual facts, rather than parnoid conspiracy theories.
4) You may also want to get over your obsession with such non-issues as Haliburton and Bush's National Guard service (are you listening Dan Rather).
5) You probably shouldn't count on too much more help from the likes of Dan Rather and the rest of your support group known as the mainstream media. More and more people are getting pretty damned annoyed with the selective truth-telling that passes for "news" nowadays.
6) Befriending such loons as George Soros, Michael Moore, Alec Baldwin, Barbara Streisand, Whoopi Goldberg, Bruce Springsteen, Jesse Jackson, assorted Euro-trash, and the three Al's (Gore, Franken, and Sharpton) is not going to win you any friends.
7) Likening anyone and everyone that disagrees with you as either a fascist and/or Hitler - while subsequently lecturing us all on tolerance and diversity is probably not a wise course.
8) And the whole pro-Europe/Anti-American thing as it turns is not terribly popular with the American people.
9) Also, you could probably get a few more votes in the future if you were to show as much contempt for the enemies of the United States as you do for people that make above $200,000 per year (a.k.a. successful people).
10) And lastly, try not to sound like an irretrievably stupid lunatic every time you open your mouth.
That's all for now. Enough to get you started on your path to rehabilitation.
ptaka the delusional wrote: "We are organizing as you are gloating, because in this game there is absolutely no rest for the weary."
My reply: Excuse me, but I thought you had ALREADY organized. Oh I get it. You weren't playin' for keeps this last time. But now, NOW, you're really mad, and, and, and, you're really gonna get us now.
ptaka also wrote: "There are simply more of us than there are of you."
My reply: Must be why my side handed your ass to you yesterday - because we're outnumbered.
Anyway, have a nice time in oblivion.
We're not going anywhere. I'm sure most people who post to this board intend to make your life miserable, and will hold George Bush accountable for his war crimes. We are organizing as you are gloating, because in this game there is absolutely no rest for the weary. There are simply more of us than there are of you. All the international opinion polls show that. Think you can celebrate, get a good night's rest, rest on your laurels. Not a chance. You have reason to be paranoid Patriot--because we are out to GET YOU!!!!! Ha ha ha ha . . . .
"The Bush campaign has repeatedly shown that it respects no one". Interesting words.
Look at yourselves. You accuse Bush of rewriting history and then rewrite it yourselves. Kerry had just as many lies as Bush in the debates. I don't agree with a lot of what Bush has done, but from what I have read, you are just a bunch of propoganda machines.
Yes, he did win. Face that fact and accept it. Even if the Supreme Court had ruled for Gore, Bush would have won. This is a fact. Bush has done some not good things, but the country isn't going to Hell in a handbasket. I cannot and will not vote for Kerry. He slandered my grandfather, and if the Vietnam War had gone one month longer, he would have included my father as well. I will also not vote for Edwards as he is an ambulance chaser lawyer (my family is medical, so that is a sore spot). If the Democrats had fielded viable candidates, I might consider voting for them. However, I will vote for Bush because I despise him less.
This is directed to "A." The Bush campaign has repeatedly shown that it respects no one. Historically, or hysterically, they have been the masters of nasty, smear tactics in political campaigns. So, you don't get off easily with trying to tell me that supporting him is the only patriotic thing to do and to not support him is not supporting our troops. I feel sorry for our troops. They deserve more than our lip service for what they are enduring. I likely know a little more about patriotism than you can dream of, having been a school kid during WWII, and living near a Naval Airforce Base. My mother was one of the original Gravel Gerties on the assembly line. So I don't accept your whining criticism about Herr Bush. Dissent is part and parcel of our Consitutional Freedoms and you don't have the freedom to deny that to any of us no matter how you feel about the Bush. Although the Bushites sure want that changed! How much have you read about this novice President and his minions? There is not much to respect among them, they are simply power hungry people.You're right that people make mistakes but smart people admit to serious mistakes so as not to make them again. And they usually say they are sorry. Bush admits to no mistakes and thousands of people are dead in the first pre-emptive war waged by this country. Bush policies are also bankrupting our economy, jobs are going, going, gone, and the environment is going to hell in a handbasket. What would you have me call him, "Sweetie?"
If I am allowed to respond to "A," I do not see anything to respect in George Bush. As has been pointed out by the head of psychiatry at, I believe, George Washington University, George Bush exhibits the traits of an *untreated alcoholic.* He is arrogant, belligerant, and a bully. This has been demonstrated any number of times from his laughing at a women who he would not reprieve from death while governor of Texas; to saying to Cheney quietly on stage (not knowing a mike was on)that a New York Times reporters is an a--hole, to his present ducking of any responsibility for the situation in Iraq. This is, according to people in and around treatment, exactly what one calls a "dry drunk."
He, and the cowards aroung him, were in favor of the Vietnem War as long as working class kids were fighting and dying so they could enjoy their privilege. He couldn't last five minutes on the streets of South Chicago in 1966 (there were no "land men" there). He's just a punk who has made a career out of being a failure *with a name* until he met his henchman Karl Rove. And now these two scoundrels maintain power for his class through the use of religion and patriotism to fool people. Hell is not deep enough for these people...
I think being disrespectful to the leader of our country and name calling is childish, if you want something to change then vote and do what you can to change it. Mistakes are part of being human and I agree we should get our troops out of there but I think that the first thing everyone needs to do is just support the people who are fighting for this country, instead of bashing it.
If Barbara Bush was half the woman she thinks she is, she would have washed Jr. Bush's mouth out with soap long before this. And where has this left us? With a spoiled, born-again alcoholic in the White House running this country like a crusading mad man. It's enough to make me want to throw up my hands and my dinner in disbelief and give up on my hard-earned religious beliefs. George Bush's misdeeds are surely not a sign of God's calling.
well, i must say that a person who thinks god is telling him to kill thousands of people definatly shoulld get his ears checked. im not christian, but isnt one of bush's commandments "thou shall not kill"? as we all know he is (apparently) above the law of the united states, and even above international law, as he has show us, but i never would have guesses he was above his gods law! so, i guess the best we can hope for if this monkey gets re-elected is that god sees the light, because we all know that bush won't, unless his oil companies profit. some say god bless the world, i say god save the world
What can one say about this scoundrel who's been acting like he actually won the 2000 election fairly? In fact, what he HAS done is no different than everything a dictator with virtual political carte blanche would do if he'd usurped a legitimate leader...which is exactly what this regime did...
This bum and his gangster cronies smugly felt that they were entitled, (for no reason save disrespect of the Constitution and the American people), to accomplish their pre-scripted radical dismemberment of our democracy - in accordance with their fascist agenda...whose thrust and details were made into a manifesto which their chickenhawk gurus even attempted to make President Clinton impliment.
This list highlights the disgraceful truth of our nation's paralysis in the face of a dictator's usurpation of power and eventual implimentation of the most sordid, corrupt, Earth-endangering, war-crazed policies...all based conveniently, oh so conviniently on the holocaust of 911. For I will always doubt that the people would have gone along with these policies, enacted with such uncaring impunity, and outlined above in some detail - if the horror of 911 hadn't occured.
And we still don't know half of the facts about how or why that terrible day's awful events came to pass. This scoundrel and his henchmen's obfuscations and stonewalling, double-speak, unwillingness to testify under oath, and obvious failure to do their jobson that day, (or was 911 PART of their jobs?), created just the societal climate necessary to impliment these above outlined anti-American policies...and other treacherous and bloody misdeeds and crimes.
We are still living with the legacy of fear which either this tyrant's ineptitude or complicity in the events of that infamous day ushered in. It shouts at us even now, three years on...less than three days before November 2nd...in the willingness of many voters to, in their fear and confusion, denialist mentality, or love of war and empire...ignominiously re-elect the very culprits who foisted that mental state upon them. God help us all!