One of the biggest changes in politics in my lifetime is that the delusional is no longer marginal. It has come in from the fringe, to sit in the seat of power in the Oval Office and in Congress. For the first time in our history, ideology and theology hold a monopoly of power in Washington. Theology asserts propositions that cannot… return to article
-
subscribe to print magazine
-
email this article to a friend
-
Reader Comments (52)Page 1 of 1 pagesFew are probably surprised with the Bush administration’s policies today now that he has had four years to build a record. So, in spite of the fact that he won by a meager 2.5% on November 2004, nobody should doubt that he will govern the next four years exactly as he did during the first.
Namely, everything that he proposes to do now, including finishing off government agencies, called “starve the beast,” loathed by the Heritage Foundation, Cato Institute and the American Enterprise Institute to name just a few, will be legislated by what he and his budget slashers consider an absolute and overwhelming mandate. In other words, no discussion, no public debate, no accountability or bipartisan support either to the US Congress or the people, will occur nor should it be expected. In this we can be positive because this is exactly how his first four years were conducted.
Whether Bush violates Title 6 and Title 7 of the 1964 Civil Rights Act with over 70% of the religious organizations receiving taxpayer money for his favorite faith-based programs, violations of the First Amendment Establishment Clause on the separation of church and state (think Intelligent Design and Creationism mandates in public schools), violations of international treaties which have held fast for generations guaranteeing humane treatment of prisoners and detainees, whether foreign or US citizens, violations of the Fourth Amendment right to privacy, Sixth Amendment violations guaranteeing the right of the accused to a quick and speedy public trial, or any and all laws international and US Constitutional, Bush has nothing but contempt and revulsion.
These are simply obstacles in his drive for an absolute autocracy and totalitarian power. Existing laws and treaties are impediments to be treated as nuisances while Bush and his parrots like Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice declare the need to dispense with freedoms in order to pursue what they call a “new war” and a “different kind of war,” refrains she used over and over again at her US Senate confirmation hearings.
Yes, all must be relegated to the growing trash heap pile of “quaint and obsolete” documents which were written with such reverence for the rights of all citizens by our Founding Fathers.
Yet, as the stunning Knight report so graphically states in the survey of 112,000 US students, the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation, an entire generation, to the delight of Bush and his radical assault on all of our Constitutionally-guaranteed liberties and freedoms, is emerging as the next mass group-think population that is eerily reminiscent of the end of Germany’s Weimar Republic and the ascendancy of the NAZI Party.
Posted by Richard on Feb 9, 2005 at 10:52 PM Knowing that Moyer’s interviews with Joseph Campbell turned a scholar of the histories of religion into a ‘feel good’ guru, I’m not inclined to trust his perceptions on matters religious. But hey! I’m free to follow my bliss.
Posted by Mircea Eliade on Feb 9, 2005 at 10:54 PM Yes, Mircea, you are free to follow your bliss. But not, I’m afraid, for long. As America as we knew it is being destroyed before our eyes. Don’t take your freedoms for granted; they are but sunlight in the grass.
The hatred of the earth is a predominant Christian/ old testament theme. This, of course, goes hand in hand with hatred of women, the sons of Ham, whatever their color, and of all things different. I really don’t think the message of Jesus included any of this. It was all made up in the Council of Nicea way back in the 3rd century AD.
In his series, “The Power of Myth”, Moyers interviews J. Campbell about the necessity of finding a new belief system. I see the belief in the power of love as being a continuity through the ages. If you disagree with that perhaps you’d better re-read your Jeaus stories. Oh, and pick up the “Da Vinci Code” while you’re at it.
Try to remember, John’s was a dream/hallucination based on the old testament idea of smiting one’s enemies. Maybe that worked for the Bronze Age, but it sure doesn’t seem to be working very well today.
Not to mention the fact you’ve ignored large parts of Moyers’ writing here. He’s not saying Christians are wrong, simply that they are being mislead around by their noses. Is there much moral about lying to the American public in order to bomb Iraq, steal their oil, kill their people? Do you still believe their were weapons of mass destruction? I do know that propagands is a powerful tool against those who prefer to get their information spoon-fed to them. God Bless us all.
Posted by Laurie Stetzler on Feb 10, 2005 at 12:02 AM The note signed “Mircea Eliade” is perhaps from a devotee of another University of Chicago “guru”, Leo Strauss?
I have no idea what Mircea Eliade might have said about Moyer’s observations, but the glib “follow your bliss” attributes to Moyer a less than serious attitude. I didn’t like the series of interviews Moyers had with Campbell either. In fact I couldn’t stand to watch them so I cannot comment on their content at all.
But the phenomenon Moyers is presently describing, the readiness, the relief with which Americans are checking their minds at the door as they allow the present monstrous group, driven by nothing but greed of one sort or another, to seize power first and subsequently to spout their “philosophical” nonsense thereafter is terrifying and worth studying.
I always used to wonder how the Nazis could have come to power in Germany. I no longer need wonder. A whole society gives up its will to accept its past and to confront its future, abdicating all power to a clique with a “will”... but why here and now?
We didn’t need wheelbarrows for our marks when thei whole thing began. Certainly 9/11 was a terrible shock, but since then the entire nation has handed over its collective will to these monsters, covered its eyes, plugged its ears, and is waiting for the country to crash, as we all know it must given its present course and the “will” of those in power to “stay the course”.
It didn’t, and doesn’t now have to be this way… you know? Do you know? Is anybody listening?
Posted by John Francis Lee on Feb 10, 2005 at 3:33 AM I think the delusional entered US politics in a big way with the failed attempt to pin the Kennedy assassination on Lee Harvey Oswald, and the absolutely idiotic single bullet theory. For the first time the politicians, the press and just about everyone else who mattered were kowtowing to an idea that everyone knew deep inside was absolutely impossible.
By the way, what was your take on the Kennedy assassination, Bill?
Posted by Carl Wernerhoff on Feb 10, 2005 at 6:30 AM Yes Carl, that was certainly the event that woke me up to the world, the way it really was, as opposed to the way I thought it was. I was 10 and a half, in a Texas schoolroom when the announcement came over the PA system. A boy in my class started clapping. I saw red and stabbed him with my newly sharpened #2 pencil. After that I started to notice the racism, classism, and hypocracy all around me. I devoured the first books debunking the Warren report. More assassinations followed of course and with them the coup of 63 was further cemented. This country has never been able to look at itself truthfully, and now, as Moyers amply demonstrates, our long cultural love affair with the cult of death has become the official state religion. Heretics will be burned. Witness the latest attacks on Clint Eastwood’s new movie by Limp-baugh and Medved, and the rest. And of course Sponge-Bob! How dare he encourage tolerance. Witness the legal sanctions sought against the four attourneys who challenged the election results in Ohio. How dare they point out that ballots were thrown out, machines switched votes, and people in the inner cities waited 10 hours in lines to cast a ballot. It’s all downhill from here unless someone in the military removes these lunatics and fanatics from the offices they have stolen.
Posted by Kenneth D. Brown on Feb 10, 2005 at 7:56 AM ’ It’s all downhill from here unless someone in the military removes these lunatics and fanatics from the offices they have stolen. ‘
Better watch out what you wish for Kenneth D Brown. One of our knuckle dragging Marine Generals, Lt. Gen. James Mattis,said :
’ “Actually, its a lot of fun to fight. You know, it’s a hell of a hoot. I like brawling.”’ “You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for 5 years because they didn’t wear a veil,” Mattis continued. “You know, guys like that ain’t got no manhood left anyway. So it’s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them.” ‘
Those in the room cheered and applauded.
In reality of course the US Marines murder women and children, on orders.
Guardian : ” ‘US Soldiers Started to Shoot Us, One by One’ “
’ As sister-in-law of the groom, Mrs Shihab, 30, was to sleep with her husband and children in the house of the wedding party, the Rakat family villa. She was one of the few in the house who survived the night.
’ “The bombing started at 3am,” she said yesterday from her bed in the emergency ward at Ramadi general hospital, 60 miles west of Baghdad. “We
went out of the house and the American soldiers started to shoot us. They were shooting low on the ground and targeting us one by one,” she said. She ran with her youngest child in her arms and her two young boys, Ali and Hamza, close behind. As she crossed the fields a shell exploded close to her, fracturing her legs and knocking her to the
ground.’ She lay there and a second round hit her on the right arm. By then her two boys lay dead. “I left them because they were dead,” she said. One, she saw, had been decapitated by a shell.
’ “I fell into the mud and an American soldier came and kicked me. I pretended to be dead so he wouldn’t kill me. My youngest child was alive
next to me.” ‘Lt. Gen. James Mattis said at that time :
’ “Bad things happen in wars. I don’t have to apologize for the conduct of my men” ‘I guess it is only those “who ain’t got no manhood left” who merely “slap women around”, real men like Lt Gen James Mattis display their “manhood” by murdering defenseless women and children in cold blood.
Or would you prefer General William Boykin :
‘My God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol.’These guys are willfully ignorant, willing war criminals.
No, a military coup will not be an improvement. On reflection I’m sure you agree. Please don’t even joke about it.
Posted by John Francis Lee on Feb 10, 2005 at 11:10 AM Check out these sites to see what you have to do to have a conversation with the public about the state of elections in America:
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pg=1673&u_sid=1332983
http://www.journalstar.com/articles/2005/02/10/local/doc420aeb1a6200400159103 31.txt
Posted by Kyle Stoner on Feb 10, 2005 at 12:01 PM I reject the notion that the Power of Myth series turned Campbell into a feel-good guru. Not to mention the dismissiveness this shows towards Moyers (who, if one has tracked his progress from LBJ to now, would discover an incredible life-arc) this statement seems inconsonant with the entirety of Campbell’s work. Just because a scholar nearing the end of his life uses mass media (if PBS can be considered so) to reach a larger audience, it need not diminish his trenchant research.
Unless, of course, you dismiss outright Campbell’s conclusions in the first place. I find it difficult to believe that one who had read a good part of the 50 some-odd books Campbell published in his lifetime would do such a thing, but I could be mistaken. It is within the context of a relevant pedagogical and ethical structure that one must follow their bliss in order to stay in the Becoming, able to resist the Become. It’s really a reiteration of the Gothean and, more justly, the Eastern and Native American schools of thought, but made to encompass all religions, fables, and myths into a singular formula and thus modernized. His research, while his conclusions are obviously hypothetical and metaphysical, is rigorously scientific.
Besides, can’t old men be sentimental anymore?
Posted by rocco on Feb 10, 2005 at 1:19 PM Amazing as it may sound - what we need is more preachers. I don’t think anyone would argue that having Christ around today would be a good thing (‘rapture’ aside). People who believe in Christ need to compare to him more often. Funny how they go so far as to think that God will provde, but that he left it up to them to hasten the end time. Insanity.
Personally, I think the Church is rife with problems and has no clear leadership. One tenant I have always disagreed with is that Christ died for my sins - personally I think I am responsible for them, and that it is evil to make Christ suffer for it. If I am wrong I will apologize to God - but I see it as a trick of the mind (‘evil’) to think others are responsible or that I know the mind of God.
What we need is more truthful leaders. Less laywers. Far less bigots.
Thank you Bill Moyers - you are one of those people.
Posted by SHubert1966 on Feb 10, 2005 at 3:20 PM Oh and about Joseph Campbell, I think ‘feel-good-guru’ would be apt without the sarcasm. I relished my discovery and reading of his books, and felt very good indeed! I think his website people are sugar-love-junkies, but at least they don’t bomb people who don’t jibe flush with their spirit.
Posted by SHubert1966 on Feb 10, 2005 at 3:24 PM Bill Moyers is right to voice concern about the silly belief of fanatics,however,this ship of fools has been on the horizon for a long time,twenty-five years atleast.
As a former member,albeit unwilling,of a fundamentalist church,I studied its function and operation.The church’s main purpose was to lure in people whose lives were in ruins,promise them a sense of belonging,and charge them money for this.It’s no accident that most of the congregation in these churches have some sort of gladly shared"walking wounded"story,and that right after a silly,
self-esteem lowering,guilt inspiring speech that the collection plate,or bucket in this case,is passed about.There you have it.Manipulate a person’s emotions and they will give you money.But how to keep them coming back?Simple,promise them something they might attain if they’re really good,like you would a child.In this case it comes after death,so they can’t complain if you defraud them.Really all this religion is is after-life insurance.You may need it,so you better have it.If you don’t need it,who will you complain to?In the case of the"born again"varieties,they offer a guarantee on their policy.Look at it from this perspective:religion is product,its tenets are the commercials,and its preachers are the salsemen.What does the consumer get?Perhaps a bit of moral instruction that any philosophy can offer but,more importantly,a good feeling that they’ve bought a superior product.Didn’t you know?You’re a better person for buying ou product!
When one looks at it like that,fundamentalist preachers are less ominous,about as intimidating as any other salesman,their followers become pathetic for being so easily duped with this falderol.The current trend in politics is another method of distributing their product;this time through the hard sell.You WILL buy our product.We will make you buy it.As a result our society is pestered with all sorts of stupid propositions,demands,and bills that no reasonable government would endorse and no reasonable person would believe.What is frightening,however,is the myrmidonic loyalty of fundamentalists.inspired by a dseire to win,as they usually don’t win in life,they will do anything to see that their group wins.The big lie(if my team wins,then I win
by association)prevails.Keep in mind that this whole end-of-the-world nonsense is simply a sales tactic,a method of generating revenue and drawing customers.What’s frighteningly sad is that some will believe the pitch and not only die for it,but also kill for it.People who believe in a violent end of the world generally try to bring it to fruition.When they get tired of waiting for their apocalypse,they will make one.I’m morbidly curious to see how this whole rapture pitch unfolds.
Posted by wwoods on Feb 10, 2005 at 3:26 PM This appeared in Graydon Carter’s “Editor’s Letter” in the October 2003 issue of *Vanity Fair*:
“The following quote is telling and indeed chilling:
‘People don’t want war…but [they] can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.’
That’s not from some weedy Democrat or a disaffected columnist. It was said by Hitler’s Luftwaffe chief and designated successor, Hermann Göring, to a psychologist in 1946, at the time of the Nuremberg war-crimes trials.”
That scares me to death.
Posted by Jim Gilligan on Feb 10, 2005 at 3:40 PM Good to see you’re still writing Bill. Don’t give up. The pen is mighty when in good hands. When Elijah had all but given up on the righteousness of his people, he was messaged in his cave that there were still 7000 who had not bowed…We’ll get through this. We meaning the human family. You have said yourself numerous times that the worst things happen when good people do nothing. That is about to change. There are always good people in hiding, so to speak. Your words and the thoughtful reflections of others will help awaken those who can and will make a difference.
Peace
Posted by Aeijay on Feb 10, 2005 at 4:42 PM I have great respect for Joseph Campbell’s scholarship and writings. I think the silly inter view by Moyers reduced a considerable body of work to a couple of buffalo robes and some incense burning. Therefore, I’m skeptical of Moyers on religious matters. I have not called Moyers a bad man, or Campbell a sentimental old fool.
Posted by Mircea Eliade on Feb 10, 2005 at 5:31 PM I try and I try to understand how the neocons can persue an agenda that to my eyes seems so blatently evil, especially in regards to the environment and respect for the sanctity of human life. I believe your hypothosis, that the fanatical belief that the anti-christ will attack the israeli homeland, backs up this administrations ability to hold arab life in such trivial regard. What is so frightening now, is that the technocrats and the scientists have joined the military/indusrial complex. My real life nightmares are of christian scientists, who in their hearts, eagerly anticipate the impending destruction of the natural environment, as the fulfillment of biblical prophecy. But at the same time,as comfortable members of the upper class,as products of their schitzophrenic culture, and as true believers, who can quote the bible, to grant the saved the right to do anything they want to in these end times: I can just imagine those christian scientists in their laboratoties, inventing the computers that will allow the saved to live in comfortable biospheres above teeming masses of suffering humanity.
Posted by amanda montgomery on Feb 10, 2005 at 5:49 PM It is very easy to make a strawman argument and then attack it. I just don’t see the point. . .
Another, but much more boring and tedious approach, is to actually *understand* the arguments of the other side(s). Frankly, if you can’t argue both sides, you really don’t understand either. But i don’t recommend this to most people - it can lead to cognitive dissonance and even cause a headache or two. :)
Posted by strawman on Feb 10, 2005 at 6:59 PM What I do not understand is why Christians would wilfully try to hasten the end of the world? If God was to wish to end the world it would happen. Do they think they’re tempting God? This seems like some sick sort of fantasy that they can manipulate God and end the world. Are the biblical passages about caring for your fellow man not exciting enough for these people?
Posted by Ryan Conover on Feb 10, 2005 at 7:54 PM Mr. Moyers:
Jesus Christ set a perfect example of submitting to or obeying the will of God. Christians are supposed to follow his example and by doing so could achieve ever lasting life. What religious people don’t seem to understand is that “everlasting life” is supposed to take place right here on this Earth, not in some far off otherworldly heaven. Paradise is here, the world we live in right now. If we follow the example set by Jesus mankind can live in peace and harmony with all its needs met forever, we’re in heaven now, we just don’t know it. The only spirit that has a problem with this set up is Satan. Anyone who advocates destruction of life on Earth has Satan as their god.
Posted by theloneous on Feb 10, 2005 at 9:25 PM Bill Moyers—
Thank you for this informative piece. Being one who will not accept that I must select an othodoxy to offend God’s creative love and many faces with any “there’s only one way” craziness, my secularist-like movements through life had not turned up the “rapture” or its index.
This information on the rapture brings a higher level of mindful preparation to me. The criminal Bush despotism, fascist corporatism, the religious right, and Osama Saladin came together in early 2003 to convince me that we will have to fight a civil-war/revolution among ourselves after Islamic insurgency WMDs kill millions of Americans and crash our fatally weakened national economy.
It’s a stupid waste. I hate the thought of it. But I’ve understood since the three-branch-aided Bush usurpation of 10 Dec 2000, that the dead and buried Constitution would require a peaceful or bloody revolution to resurrect. And now I understand the uncompromising, medieval, irrational recklessness and inhuman carelessness of the religious right against which many of us will have to fight a civil war to return to the Constitutional ban against theocracy.
“Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils.” —Gen. John Stark to his veterans, 31 July 1809.
Posted by Stehen Neitzke on Feb 10, 2005 at 9:37 PM What we are witnessing today is economic suicide by an American electorate that has turned our Ship of State into a “Ship of Fools”. Frank Thomas explains it in “What’s the Matter with Kansas?”, when he writes that for rightwingers, “Cultural anger is marshalled to achieve economic ends”. It’s why the Red States are red and their “reality” is not real. Also, “Yes, Virginia, LHO killed JFK all by himself. Read Jim Moore’s 1991 book, “Conspiracy of One” and Gerald Posner’s 1993 book, “Case Closed”. The truth is there, if you’ll bother looking…
Posted by Mark Cartwright on Feb 10, 2005 at 9:47 PM This rapture garbage isn’t even a Christian thing, it’s a looney incorrect interpretation of scripture. Tere is no such thing as a rapture, and people who believe it are going on an incorrect translation of biblical text. Not all Christians believe that garbage, just in defense of the rest of us, Catholics certainly don’t, nor do we go around worrying about the spocalypse and trying to hasten its arrival.
Posted by Ryan Conover on Feb 10, 2005 at 10:56 PM The problem is not Jesus or Christianity. The problem is fundamentalism. The whole point of the Campbell/Moyers interviews was to demonstrate the incredible richness, diversity and yet samness of various cultures’s explorations of the spiritual. God cannot be described or defined. The mysteries of life can only be hinted at through metaphor. To interpret any spiritual writing in a literal fashion is absurd. One memorable quote from The Power of Myth: “He who knows, knows not…he who does not know, knows.” The other problem, here in America, is the failure, on all our parts, to take full responsibility for what is happening today. Bush-bashing gives some relief to our frustrations, but the sad truth is that we have become a nation of poorly educated, apathetic, self-indulgent people who have relinquished their responsibilities.
Posted by Suzanne Gentling on Feb 11, 2005 at 1:42 AM Posner’s Book is riddled with errors, half truths, and more than a few sins of omission.
Didn’t read Moore’s, but since he references Posner’s I think the methodology is probably similar. I tried to reprint a review written at the time, but I guess there were too many characters. You can read it if you care to athttp://karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/the_critics/wrone/Review_of_Case_Closed.html
Posted by Kenneth D. Brown on Feb 11, 2005 at 2:01 AM I have had numerous conversations with fundamentalists about their social and political views, as well as their take on the end times. Some have been highly educated, trained in scientific inquiry, though others have simply been sincere followers with not much formal education. As the word fundamentalist implies, it’s the view that the Bible is the top authority that they share. This is because they’ve been taught that the Bible is protected by divine power from any significant distortions due to history, translation, editing, or culture. “Penned by man but Written by God”, one old friend was fond of saying. In large part, I think, it’s the view that scripture is somehow independent of its historical and cultural contexts that’s the central problem. The doctrine of inerrancy asserts not only that the Bible is true, but that it is incapable of being false or even mistaken, impossible for it to not reflect the cosmic order of the universe and its Creator’s plan. The results of this are many, but include the idea that any action based on the Bible must be cosmically correct. If the scripture is my authority, and if I adhere to the principles it contains, then I must be on the side of right, it is said. I find this to be a regrettable stance, in the main because of the breadth of messages contained in it. The Bible doesn’t have one single message about the nature of Man, the nature of sin, how God is best obeyed, the circumstances that justify violence, or the sort of worship activities God wants to see. Specific passages in it seem to actually contradict each other. The picture of God as a divine personality is also not thoroughly consistent in all of the books. In places the Creator of the universe resembles an angry, capricious king, who destroys and punishes for the merest offense. How to relate that with the view of a loving God, who is said to care for each individual human and creature in the world? It helps to realize that the Bible draws from centuries of separate smaller scriptures. It is a historical document that developed across time and was at a particular point codified into its modern forms. It’s not separate from history, not immune from the adaptations that historical forces will have brought to its many parts and also its compiled form. It sounds facetious to some to speak of demystifying the Bible, and others see talk like that as a call to war, but I think it would be less often used to justify harm if it were demystified but still learned from, harm like the enslavement of Africans, the blaming of women for the existence of sin, the damning of homosexuals, the regarding of scientific theories about life and its origins as demonic, and the burning of people who held the wrong theology. To name only a few specifics. If it can be seen instead as an enormously significant historical document, a milestone in the progress of civilization away from savagery, then its higher ethics can be partaken of without the perceived obligation to also incorporate the violence and tales of conquest in the Bible into a modern, moral worldview.
Posted by Kuya on Feb 11, 2005 at 8:11 AM Bill Moyers is to be commended and recommended as someone who deeply loves his country and not incidentally the World in which it exists.
I believe the battle against bad ideology and bad theology( fill in additional “-ologies”)is for better or worse fought out in those realms. Knowing what is going on with these “crazies” on the religious right is not enough. We must oppose them. Give me a Christian who fights for the poor. Give me one who militantly works to carry out the hardest command of them all- “love thy neighbor as thyself!”(much harder than loving the unseen God but conversely the ONLY evidence that one does!). Now is not the time for cynicism or despair. I believe Jim Wallis has written a book that can help people put the morality of saving the planet slightly in front of “killing for Christ”. We need to win this battle by denouncing and exposing the liars and hypocrites who are once again trying to twist tha cross into a swastika. 78 million voting age Americans declined to vote in the last election - maybe we start there. Maybe we fight with the the Progressive Democrats for America to get that party off the middle of the road(where the roadkill is found, according to Jim Hightower) Maybe we don’t give up and become passive. If we are so knowledgeable - then its time to do the Paul Revere thang ie. “Ride Your Pony”.
As millions spriral into poverty - including me- there is no patience with those who will only deliver premature eulogies - We need a brave movement that loves the countrty and the world enough to stay the hand of these oppressors and usurpers - these princes of the world.
Posted by Andy Willis on Feb 11, 2005 at 3:17 PM I’m not given to belief in Rapture as a response to the current breakdown of the fabric of society.
I tend to go in the other (but probably equally pathological) direction known as Anomie.
I’m on the Alienation side of the Alienation-Belonging Axis, on the Anomie side of the Anomie-Bonhomie Scale.
Not that it does me much good. It’s depressing and dispiriting to bear witness to a Sophoclean tragedy in the making.
Throughout history, cultures have been caught up in their mythologies, and ours is no exception. Delusional belief systems can bind a people for a time, but eventually reality must dawn.
Posted by Barry Kort on Feb 11, 2005 at 4:02 PM This essay was so well written, being both factual and passionate, that I was able to send it to a conservative friend who voted for Bush in 2000. I’m careful with what I mail because her sister (a liberal like me) won’t even discuss matters with her anymore, feeling that she’s hopeless. For a long time, she didn’t see how she’d been duped by all the spin. Eventually, disgusted by the expose on torture, she said she wasn’t used to people lying, meaning, she had trusted the politicians she had voted for in the past (of course there have been lies, but this administration takes the cake). I’m grateful for opinion pieces like this that I can share, use to help promote thought, because many I read are just angry without enough substance. To send one of those to a conservative friend would be like hitting someone over the head without explaining why.
Thank you, Bill Moyers, for this and for all your excellent work!
Posted by Diana Morley on Feb 12, 2005 at 12:45 AM What a bunch of self-important nonsense.
“For the first time in our history, ideology and theology hold a monopoly of power in Washington.”
No. The so-called “Religious Right” is not unified in theology or ideology; they are unified by a rather narrow group of concrete social issues, primarily abortion and gay marriage.
“Theology asserts propositions that cannot be proven true”
True by what measure? Even modern science is based upon philosophic presuppositions which can not be verified—so say most philosophers. We live in a world of uncertainties, where what you see is necessarily affected by what you believe. Welcome to the postmodern condition.
“ideologues hold stoutly to a worldview despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality.”
Most Americans are ideologues. They believe in human rights and human freedom. These things are not “real”, in the sense that they do not exist apart from our thoughts about human society. Nevertheless, they are extremely important to us. I certainly hope you’re not advocating that “what is generally accepted” is a measure for what is “real”.
“One-third of the American electorate, if a recent Gallup Poll is accurate, believes the Bible is literally true.”
What does “literally true” mean? That’s an extremely vague statement. It cerainly does not mean, as you imply, that they hold to a premillenial dispensationalist eschatology (the proper term for the tradition which you so contemptuously dismiss as the “rapture index”). You are correct that the terminology of the “rapture” comes from the 19th century, but you neglect to mention that there is a long tradition in Christianity of speculating about the meaning of prophetic passages in the Books of Daniel and Revelation; it is not an invention of the stereotypical ignorant American fundamentalist. You further mislead your readers by suggesting that there is a uniform interpretation of current events among premillenial dispensationalists—there isn’t—and that premillenial dispensationalists believe that they can somehow “help” God or force his hand by assisting Israel. I’m sure that you’ve met some people who believed that, but it’s not a majority. To suggest, as you and many on the left do, that this belief is driving Bush’s policy on Iraq is ludicrous.
As to Grist’s article (from which you borrowed extensively), it notes that the religious right supports certain Republican politicians. This has little to do with their voting records on environmental issues, and a lot to do with their opposition to abortion on demand and gay marriage. One can certainly find fundamentalists who are suspicious of environmentalists; but you can also find some environmentalists who are atheists. Does it therefore follow that all environmentalists are atheists, or somehow that their environmentalist beliefs are a cause of atheism? No, and neither does premillenial dispensationalism cause someone to ascribe to certain environmental policies.
“Once upon a time I thought that people would protect the natural environment when they realized its importance to their health and to the health and lives of their children. Now I am not so sure.”
Perhaps if you spent less time demonizing Christian fundamentalists and attacking their religious doctrine (which they are not going to change), and spent more time explaining how care for the environment was consistent with a literal interpretation of the scripture (it is), you can change people’s minds. Instead, you have linked a contemptuous and condescending attitude toward conservative Christians to environmentalism, which reduces any chance for communication.
“The news can be the truth that sets us free—free to fight for the future we want.”
Perhaps. Then again the news can also be nothing but propaganda that reenforces prejudices and labels the other as the cause of the world’s ills. I’m sure you would say that Christian fundamentalists do this, and many do. Is it really necessary to respond in kind?
Posted by halflight on Feb 13, 2005 at 1:30 AM Excellent post, halflight. Good to see someone bring some light to this poorly thought out article attempting to glue together quite disparate items.
Posted by Jay on Feb 13, 2005 at 4:21 AM I bet Moyers’ article would have carried a lot more punch had it contained a passage such as this:
“Remember James Watt, President Ronald Reagan’s first secretary of the interior? My favorite online environmental journal, the ever-engaging Grist, reminded us recently of how James Watt told the U.S. Congress that protecting natural resources was unimportant in light of the imminent return of Jesus Christ. In public testimony he said, ‘after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back.’
Beltway elites snickered. The press corps didn’t know what he was talking about. But James Watt was serious.”
In fact, his original piece did contain precisely these words right after: “And that is the danger: voters and politicians alike, oblivious to the facts”.
Trouble is, the quote is pure fiction. Watt never said it. Moyers repeated a mythical quote (for which he has since apologized to Watt) and proceeded to spice it up with his personal wishful fiction about the feelings of elites, the press and James Watt. He would have gotten away with it, too, if not for some of the same ordinary people who helped to expose Dan Rather and Mary Mapes for the partisan hacks that they are and pretend not to be.
The Washington Post, who repeated the bogus quote, inserted a correction to their story. Even Grist posted a correction footnote to their original story. It would seem that “In These Times” has chosen to keep its readers in the dark about something that casts serious doubt on Moyers’ and other environmentalists’ credibility, common sense and fact checking ability. If they have posted a correction and I missed it I apologize, but it certainly isn’t obvious. It should be.
Moyers also misrepresents the remarks of Zell Miller, and libelously paints him as a fire-breathing planet killer in order to fit into his goofy theory. He snips out a piece of what Miller said and makes one assume it relates to the environment. In fact, Miller was speaking about something else entirely. The full quote is this:
“The days will come, sayeth the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land. Not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the word of the Lord.” In other words, “You’re not going to church enough,” not “You’re all gonna die of hunger and I’m happy about it,” as Moyers imagines. The subject of Miller’s speech was not the environment, it was Janet Jackson’s wardrobe malfunction.
I’m sorry, but if Moyers and others are so careless as to use made up quotes and knowingly distort others, what confidence should we have in the rest of their theses? I’ve never read a more nebulous bunch of circumstantial, guilt by association, partisan bitterness trying to pass as meaningful truth since, well….since Moyers’ analysis of why nobody wanted to watch his TV show.
Try again, Bill, Dan, Eason, and you too, Armstrong. But be careful. There’s a whole new legion of fact checkers watching you, and their eyes are wide open to your methods of character assassination, distortion, nondisclosure and unfounded conclusions. You are the people who seem to have “blind faith” in your assertions going unchallenged.
Posted by Natalie on Feb 13, 2005 at 5:13 AM Moyers apologized for his mistake and corrected it. Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Reilly et al. mislead on a daily basis without ever apologizing for or correcting their mistakes.
Posted by Mike on Feb 13, 2005 at 11:40 AM halflight,
I’ll only deal with your statements on ideology, science and theology.
Moyers: “Theology asserts propositions that cannot be proven true”
You: “True by what measure? Even modern science is based upon philosophic presuppositions which can not be verified—so say most philosophers. We live in a world of uncertainties, where what you see is necessarily affected by what you believe. Welcome to the postmodern condition.”
Most folks are very ignorant of how scientific knowledge is determined. Modern science is characterized by the method it uses and how it classifes and tests information to see if it fits reality. It is not dedicated to refuting your faith, but to the best explanation of how the real world works. It really has no quarrel with anyone, except when his ideology leads to practices and consequences which have disastrous effects. (For examples, preventing stem cell research, recommending abstinance rather than devises and behavior which will halt overpopulation and the spread of AIDS, or an educational program which censors textbooks to prevent students from learning ecological and evolutionary science).
No scientific law or theory is either proven or claimed to be proven by scientists using the scientific method. Such scientists start with a statement, a hypothesis, describing a phenomenon. It is not a supposition of truth, although it will be evaluated to see if it holds up. In contrast with ideologues, scientists are not advocates. They make observations and do tests in the real world to see their intuition is verified by their findings. Other scientists replicate their work to confirm or refute their findings. They all discuss the the developing knowledge in an open forum. And verified hypothesis must accurately predict what will happen in the future as well as explain the past. If their tests indicate the statement is true in all cases they study, they may eventually call the construct a “theory” (or a “law”); but the theory is subject to revision or rejection or narrowing its scope if it is not in accord with reality. There is no supposition of truth involved.
If we look at evolution, no one has put forth verifiable arguments based on reality which refute it. The bones, microbe adaptations, speciation, the genetics, the explanations all support each other. The “creationists” have constructed their own “theories,” masked as science, which are contradicted by reality and cannot be used to predict future happenings.
“ideologues hold stoutly to a worldview despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality.”
“Most Americans are ideologues. They believe in human rights and human freedom. These things are not “real”, in the sense that they do not exist apart from our thoughts about human society.”
Granted, but what does it have to do with Moyer’s discussion? (The reality is that the right does not own the ideas of freedom and, in fact, they are in the midst of trying to curtail our civil rights. I would go even further than Moyers and say the cynical, hypocritical right is trying to highjack the words in their propaganda; at the same time they are killing thousands of people, supporting dictators and undermining human rights wherever they can).
Posted by Jerry on Feb 14, 2005 at 4:46 AM But wasn’t Bill Moyers on the side of the delusional in the 1960s? I am sure he was an apologist for the Warren Commission. Why was the delusional acceptable back then but not now?
Posted by Jim on Feb 14, 2005 at 4:52 AM Right on Natalie. James Watt was pretty much a serial tree-hugger (assuming someone chopped it down first). And everyone knows that Zell Miller is not a fire-breathing planet killer. He’s obviously a firewater-ingesting teat hater.
Way to set the record straight.
Posted by Matt Harris on Feb 14, 2005 at 6:17 AM Thank you Bill.
Connect all the dots and it truly appears that Bush is hunting for Armageddon, with the way he’s is stirring up the Middle East. Scary.
I used to hold fears for an Apocalyptic future but then I saw how futile that vision is. If you have something to live for, mainly loved ones and happy times, Armageddon is a dead end.
(The new date for the end of the world—-as we know it and I feel fine——is 2012 by Mayan calculations, so let the countdown begin.)
Personally, I really wish that the Bush neo-con cabal would just sit around and feed themselves some psychedelics. Then maybe they could witness the Apocalypse (or Armageddon, or the Rapture, or the end of the world, whatever you want to call it) and live to tell about it without dragging the innocent into their living nightmare.
Posted by pick of the litter on Feb 14, 2005 at 7:45 PM I am disappointed - i figured that the “blind faith” was about the Muslims. Talk about wacky religions! Women can’t drive? And other competing religions are outlawed? Compared to the Islamic crazies, our crazies seem almost completely sane. Heck, even the abortion doctor killers are tame compared to the fanatics who kill so very indiscriminately…
Of course, we should expect more from the US. We are the keepers of freedom and civilization. Here’s a hilarious thought - imagine the Islamic countries somehow obtained nukes before the West did (i know, they are too primative to have achieved such a thing - but just imagine). The earth would be a pile of radioactive martyrs by now. . .
Posted by andIThought on Feb 14, 2005 at 10:19 PM Dear andIThought
I was a fly on the wall in a Muslim’s home and heard the following conversation between a Muslim and an American.
US: I am disappointed - i figured that the “blind faith” was about the Muslims. Talk about wacky religions! Women can’t drive?
THEM: Talk about wacky religions! Compared to us, they give hardly anything to charity. They say the poor in the bible deserved the help Christ gave them, but their own poor are “playing the victim game.” And they came over here and killed more than 100,000 of our people. They’ve ruined our economy, apparently siezed our oil and desecrated our sacred sites and our museums. They’ve even tortured our sons.
US: And other competing religions are outlawed? Compared to the Islamic crazies, our crazies seem almost completely sane.
THEM: And members of other competing religions are to be converted by invasion and death? Compared to the Christian crazies, our crazies seem almost completely sane.
US: Heck, even the abortion doctor killers are tame compared to their fanatics who kill so very indiscriminately…
THEM: Even the (I couldn’t find a “non-or-less-fanatic” killer in the Muslim society who is comparable to your abortion doctor killers) killers are tame compared to their fanatics who kill tens of thousands of our innocent men, women and children.
US: Of course, we should expect more from the US. We are the keepers of freedom and civilization.
THEM: Of course, we should expect more from ourselves. We were the keepers of civilization during the dark ages and see you losing your civil rights; you specify the freedom of corporations to exploit as superior to human civil rights.
US: Here’s a hilarious thought - imagine the Islamic countries somehow obtained nukes before the West did (i know, they are too primative to have achieved such a thing - but just imagine). The earth would be a pile of radioactive martyrs by now.
Ha! Ha!
Posted by Jerry on Feb 14, 2005 at 11:47 PM Thier crazies our crazies whatever same thing. Both are acting the same way on thier beleifs. The difference is that our crazies are behind the wheel of the most powerful country in the world and are trying to bring about the end of the world for their own self interest. You do the math. Personally I think the drunk behind the wheel of the sherman tank is more dangerous than the one behind the wheel of the ford feista.
p.s. Isnt the antichrist supposed to be the guy who uses christian dogma to immoral ends and brings about apocalypse in the process? Sounds like Bush to me.
Posted by Hurin on Feb 15, 2005 at 1:23 AM reddog,
So what is wrong with pointing out that Bush is following the path which has been blazed by Hitler, Fascists and other dictators in building power?
I will mention a few of the Bush administration and operative’s aims and actions which are similar to those Hitler used as he built the third reich:
—Reduce citizen’s civil rights. Hold prisoners secretely without right to attorneys, trials or outside contacts. Torture them.
—Appoint partisan right wing judges. Selectively apply laws to dissidents.
—Rescind treaties and international laws for treatment of prisoners, preemptive attacks and other matters.
—Use the words freedom and justice to rationalize aggressive unwarranted attacks on other countries.
—Intimidate, marginalize and disrupt protesters. Insist that the state is equal to the political leader, that one is “with the leaders or against the country” and that to defy the leader is unpatriotic and possibly treason.
—Control the media and establish a very strong propaganda machine, which uses repeated lies (eg., our purposes in Iraq) to gain support. And prevent challenges to these lies where possible.
—Terrorize innocent foreign civilians by bombing their homes and killing huge numbers of them.
—Steal elections. Send or approve of thugs who violently disrupt peaceful vote counting activities.
—Set up military-industry-government relations in preparation for everlasting war.
—Operate in Secret.
Posted by Jerry on Feb 15, 2005 at 6:26 AM I’ve sent this to all of my Republican relatives. Too bad In These Times preaches to the choir.
Mitch
Posted by Mitcherino on Feb 15, 2005 at 7:49 PM Well, back to the environment. If you want to put your money where your mouth is, try the Natural Resources Defense Council. (nrdc.org). This group is actively fighting the Bush Administration’s attempt to put our natural resources into corporate hands which has little regard for the environmental consequences. All this interesting discourse is great, but if we don’t have a place to live, water and air, then all the other issues are moot, aren’t they? Inform yourself, take action, please.
Posted by Suzanne Gentling on Feb 16, 2005 at 1:52 AM Good link posted elsewhere by Joe Progressive in “A Corrupted Election:..” that pertains to this topic.
http://www.theocracywatch.org/index.html
Only strenthens Moyers observations.
Very scary.
Posted by pick of the litter on Feb 18, 2005 at 7:37 AM The ‘Theocracywatch’ website is excellent. Thanks. Yes, this is scary. Those of us who continue to believe in the separation of church and state must speak out in every way possible and become more active. This is our country, too.
Posted by Suzanne Gentling on Feb 18, 2005 at 1:40 PM I am an admirer of your publication. Recently a powerful article has been circulating by e-mail -the one written by Bill Moyers and entitled “Blind Faith.”
But if we can believe the information accompanying different versions of the article, it has also appeared in two different newspapers?
Another version states that it first appeared on “alternet.” (I have also written today to alternet to see if they were indeed the original source.)
But then my daughter said that she first saw the article in IN THESE TIMES. I have just checked your web site, and she is right. It IS there, and in entirety. I am printing it, plus the comments that followed. So I’m making progress…
And so, can you please tell me WHERE this article FIRST appeared, and if it truly WAS in IN THESE TIMES? Did Bill Moyers originally write it especially for YOU?
The article is quite wonderful and I would like to share it with others, but at the same time, I want to credit it properly. There are so many hoaxes and inaccuracies flooding the Internet these days, alas…
Can you clarify this for me. please?
Many thanks!
Carol Lems-Dworkin
Posted by Carol Lems-Dworkin on Feb 21, 2005 at 8:19 PM A version of this essay was originally written (to the best of my knowledge) by Moyers as an acceptance speech for Harvard Medical School’s Environment Citizens Award. You can Google ‘bill moyers harvard’ and read what he had to say at that time. I have admired the work of Mr.Moyers for years and lately have especially appreciated his most astute and intelligent discourse on what is REALLY going on in this country. He officially retired last December from his PBS program, ‘NOW’ (which still exists with his protege, David Brancacio), but I am hoping he will continue to speak out to and for all of us.
Posted by Suzanne Gentling on Feb 22, 2005 at 1:54 AM Here’s some more from Bill Moyers.
http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.article&issue=soj0408&arti icle=040810
Posted by Suzanne Gentling on Feb 22, 2005 at 2:24 AM You go, Bill! Thank you. I have been wondering for sometime when journalists (and not just political satirists like Maher and Stewart), would start discussing the implications of “End Times” thinking in the running of this country.
One funny thing about religion is how ignorant it can be of it’s own history. In America, the Christain faith has been tied strongly to the dynamics of the Apocalyps since the 18th century. Listen to the Gospel music sung in Black Church (“Jesus Gonna Hit Like an Atom Bomb” easily comes to mind), go to a Christian Book store and look at how many titles there are dedicated to the subject of End Times.
I have become so frustrated at people thinking this is a silly conspiracy theory, instead of a realistic aspect of America’s spiritual bedrock, that I have begun writing a story to show how Gays in American can become what Jews were to the Germans - something that should be removed - but in this case to cleanse American and clear the way for Christ’s second coming.
For it has been historically very common for a community, when struck with hard times (such as War, economic depression, plague, etc.) to turn on those who are marginalized within the community. Interestingly, Berlin, before the rise of the Nazis, had the most vibrant homosexual community known to modern society. The Nazis used their own cultural myths to cleanse the German people, supplying very simplistic stories (like those in Revelations) to help the medicine go down with the public.
When things go bad, people don’t want complex “Kerry” explanations for what is happening and how to deal with it. They want something simple, black and white, Good and Evil, Us versus Them approach. If the War on Terror spread, goes poorly; if the quality of our lives changes radically because of budget deficits, rising gas prices, or falling value of the dollar; if a plague like Bird Flu begins to spread, many people are going to start asking the simplistic question of “Why is God doing this to us? Maybe it’s time we get right with the Lord and take care of what is wrong with us?” Which plays right into the hands of an administration which seeks to devalue the role of science in public discourse.
Imagine Gays, all those parades of leather men and drag queens, their desire to destroy Marriage, their images of sexual expression, become deemed a Terrorist threat because they represent Americas decedance to the Islamic world. They must be stopped so we do not make ourselves a greater target, so we don’t give fuel to the Great Satan fire. And we must make ourselves right with the Lord, so He will stand by us, in the End Times.
Here is what I offer as proof of the adminstations disregard for the well-being of Gay people:
‘A gay Lebanese man with AIDS has enough reason to fear persecution in his native country that he shouldn’t be deported while he is seeking asylum in the United States, a federal appeals court ruled Monday.
The U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals found that Nassier Mustapha Karouni’s fear of being arrested, tortured or killed in a country where homosexuality is considered a crime was based in fact, not just emotion.
The court rejected the Justice Department’s argument that Karouni could avoid the fate of gay friends who were killed if he refrained from sexual relations upon his return home.”
Los Angeles Times - March 8th, 2005
The Bush administration agued the Lebanese man should become an “ex-gay” in effect (maybe they will let him in the country while he fixed himself with the Exodus Ministries).As economic hard times hit, will poor people with HIV/AIDS be forced to “wither on the vine”, due to budget cutbacks?
Since I am a creative person, I think the best way to get people to understand what I’m talking about is to finish this story, something like “The Handmaiden’s Tale” for Gays. Please put some good engery and prayers (yes, I am not anti-Christian at all) out there for me.
What Bill is really saying is what is the world going to be like after people try to use these prophecies, these End Times myths, to justify their actions - a massive war, economic and environmental devistation, lack of quality health care, information disemination under governmental control. Civilizations really do such stupid things.
Is it really so unreasonable that we might anex Canada in the future, to help stablize the Americas as part of the War on Terror?
Posted by Biff on Mar 13, 2005 at 10:00 PM As an ordained minister, I refuse to give in to the climate of fear perpetrated by Bush and Co. Three cheers for Bill Moyers, who with his intellect and characteristic wit, has illuminated truth with his words, “...the will to fight is the antidote to despair, the cure for cynicism…” It is time for us progressives to fight fear and apathy with action.
Posted by Rev. Dr. Sharon R. Graff on Apr 13, 2005 at 11:57 PM Page 1 of 1 pages -
register a new account »Posting Security
Posted by dogboy on Jun 3, 2005 at 8:57 PM 
Also by Bill Moyers
- Is the Fourth Estate a Fifth Column?
Corporate media colludes with democracy's demise - Bill Moyers Interviews Rev. Jeremiah Wright
- In Praise of Reporting Reality—And The Truth
- Reckoning with the God Squad
Fundamentalist bullies cannot be appeased. They must be confronted. - The Battle for PBS
- Blind Faith
Popular Discussions
- The 9/11 Faith Movement
Many Americans believe 9/11 was a conspiracy by the U.S. government
1979 posts since Jul 11 06 - What’s the 411 on 9/11?
891 posts since Dec 21 05 - Democrats: It’s the War
659 posts since Nov 1 05 - Was the Presidential Election Stolen?
462 posts since Jun 19 06 - A Fundamental History Lesson
The rise of National Socialism proved politics and religion don't mix
427 posts since Oct 10 05
© 2005 In These Times | Reprint Policy | Privacy Policy | Powered by Expression Engine | RSS Feeds
