LB,
(Note: I
Posted by whattheheck on Feb 8, 2006 at 7:46 AM
WTH,
You just couldn’t resist turning my argument around on me, could you. That is why I answered it before you could ask:
<i>I know you are salivating, after reading the above, to ask me why I defend Muslim death threats. Short answer, I don
Posted by luminous beauty on Feb 8, 2006 at 9:40 AM
WTH,
Pardon me if this sounds preachy.
I would like to say a word about ‘happiness’. There is ordinary mundane happiness, which is conditional and subordinate to the fleeting sensations, perceptions and thoughts that assail our temporal existence. e.g.; “This ‘makes’ me happy” or “that ‘makes’ me unhappy”. However, there is a deeper source of limitless satisfaction (called zen in Japanese) where the understanding develops that the apparent mortal fragility of change and loss is in actuality the unending renewal of boundless existence.
This simple shift in perception allows one to be critical of the unpleasant specifics of the current condition of worldly affairs without the danger of falling into cynical despair or mindless pollyannaism. This is the true meaning of moderation. I sincerely desire that form of happiness to be awakened within you.
Namaste
Posted by luminous beauty on Feb 8, 2006 at 12:18 PM
I’ll give you that one, WTH. Feisty. Good show!
Posted by wileywitch on Feb 8, 2006 at 12:40 PM
WTH is lucky we believe in his existence for he is otherwise a figment of his own imagination it seems. Unless we all have in common the delusion that a Cringer in denial called WTH is inhabiting this thread…............... then maybe he is a figment of our imaginations.
Rabbit for one could not have imagined this sort of creature, not my figment.
Maybe he is a fig?
Posted by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2006 at 8:20 PM
I don’t know, Rabbit—- it’s this crazy thing—-I’m a little fond of WTH. The patience that Lumens has with this guy is a beautiful thing to behold, too. I feel like I am able to go back to middle school to have another stab at learning algebra, except it’s rhetoric I’m studying. Is that nutty, or what? It doesn’t make any sense.
Posted by wileywitch on Feb 8, 2006 at 9:31 PM
Wiley, it is cyclical. Once Rabbit also displayed a saintly patience with WTH, beyond even that shown by Lumens now. Rabbit gave WTH the benefit of the doubt time and again. But finallly ever the Rabbit has his limits. About the third time he showed promising progress only to withdraw into total willfull ignorance at the moment of realising he is about to reach a logical, but unpalateable conclusion.
WTH has simply fallen into the category of unsalvageable and therefore expendable.
Rabbit is a mercenary soul, we must cut our losses.
We should realise that the dittoheads have the function of a fifth column in our societies, they should be rooted out and disposed of for freedom’s sake.
Posted by Rabbit on Feb 8, 2006 at 10:38 PM
LB,
I remember
Posted by whattheheck on Feb 9, 2006 at 12:34 PM
WTH,
Concerning religion, spirituality and the socially redeeming side of Islam, the old saw applies, “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.” It helps to hear something if you are actively listening for it. I seem to remember a recent conversation where I directed you a widely distributed and celebrated fatwa explicitly denouncing terrorism. All the feedback you gave me was to argue that certain Koranic verses cited were interpretable (by an idiot!) as permitting terrorism. Do you see my problem here?
Posted by luminous beauty on Feb 9, 2006 at 1:55 PM
LB,
Have any Islamic “nations” spoken up with peaceful sounding comments?(not just not advocating death to us)
I have read articles quoting Islamic verses which sound a lot like some Biblical admonitions to do good and not harm, but I would like to have a proclamation from a representative Muslim group decrying the violence. Preferably a group who might moderate the radical faction.
Unfortunately, major religions all have some verses which the nut cases can recite to justify nearly anything they want.
The problem IMO is that people tend take literally writings which are meant to be allegorical or mythical.
Long ago I came to believe much of what is in the Bible may be true, but it is not true just because it is in the Bible - it is in there because someone experienced it to be so.
Do you recall the site denouncing terrorism?
Posted by whattheheck on Feb 9, 2006 at 6:04 PM
WTH,
Salaam
Is it too difficult then to conclude that nut cases who cannot percieve the deeper mythical meanings of scripture and use them only in a superficial manner to justify their unjustifiable beliefs and actions are not really religious in any meaningful way?
Posted by luminous beauty on Feb 9, 2006 at 7:10 PM
WTH better late than never I suppose.
Informed people who read Rense or Jones for example knew several days ago that three of the cartoons purported by the Danish Imams to be from the Jyllands Posten were frauds. One was plucked from AP and had nothing to do with Muslims or Mohammed but was an entrant in a Pig squealing contest in France, he just happened to have a beard. One is of a Dog rooting someone bending over praying and another is a childish cartoon to do with peadophilia. There is no maybe about it. It has also been established that person responsible for publishing “Rose” is a Neo-con faithful as well.
It was a deliberate provocation WTH and this is not the first time pictures and cartoons depicting Mohammed have been depicted. Read this and get a few clues if you dare.
One view of who and how
Another, similar.
Probably a waste of time, one can lead a horse to water at least.
Posted by Rabbit on Feb 10, 2006 at 2:04 AM
WTH did you just ask if any Islamic Nations are condemning the violence over the cartoons? You cannot be for real. Most of them have condemned the violence you clown. They have aksed their citizencs to be calm and to protest in orderly ways, to avoid violence and they have been doing everything in their power to protect the embassies and foreigners.
You live in a fantasy world for sure. Just because the TV only shows a few rent a crowd groups chanting and acting like goatheads. You can at least find the reports of the truth from the internet, make an effort you lazy sack of hubris.
Posted by Rabbit on Feb 10, 2006 at 2:11 AM
LB,
Posted by whattheheck on Feb 10, 2006 at 2:14 PM
<i>“Some
Posted by luminous beauty on Feb 10, 2006 at 2:54 PM
“The problem is THEY can be convinced that they ARE being meaningfully religious.”
The bigger problem is WE believing THEIR false beliefs are central to Islam. It is no different than saying Pat Robertson speaks for all Christians. Or calling those who disagree with US policy ‘anti-American’.
These guys are criminals. In international law, US law and Sharia law. Criminals always rationalize their crimes. It should not be that difficult to make the distinction. By invading an Islamic, if secular, country that had nothing to do with 911 we have ceded our own legitimacy and created a horrible fucking mess. Returning criminal acts with criminal acts.
Posted by luminous beauty on Feb 10, 2006 at 3:15 PM
OK LUME, WHAT YEAR WERE YOU BORN IF YOU DON’T MIND. ? not51?
Or what Chinese horoscope if you don’t wish to masticate the meal before ninnies digest it?
Posted by Rabbit on Feb 11, 2006 at 3:03 AM
The Ox, Rabbit. 1949
Stubborn and methodological, combined with a sun in Libra, adaptive in seeking harmony and balance. My workbench tends to chaos as the work’s symmetry emerges.
Posted by luminous beauty on Feb 11, 2006 at 8:00 AM
Returning to the original theme of this article…
Assuming U.S intelligence was getting valuable info from the cell phones of those planning attacks here or elsewhere, now that the tactic has been exposed is there any value in contining the practice?
These guys are not stupid.
On the other hand, we have a history of telling our opponents, “Ready or not, here we come.”
LBJ announced a major air attack in time for the Vietnamese to man their AA and set up for the correct altitude.
Posted by whattheheck on Feb 13, 2006 at 8:43 AM
What tactic was exposed, WTH? The only thing exposed was the avoidance of legally required FISA procedures.
The NSA is dedicated to the monitoring of international communications. It isn’t a secret.
Posted by luminous beauty on Feb 13, 2006 at 10:41 AM
LB,
“What tactic was exposed?”
They will not continue to use phones which can be monitored, so there is no chance to pick up on their conversations
Posted by whattheheck on Feb 13, 2006 at 1:06 PM
WTH,
Why would they have thought phones weren’t being monitored? The NSA monitors every kind of communication 24/7, rain or shine, war or no war. It is common knowledge. As you said, they aren’t stupid.
Posted by luminous beauty on Feb 13, 2006 at 1:24 PM
What an extraordinary world these people have imagined for themselves!!!
WTH, it may be helpful for you to think of the following.
Criminals, are fully aware that all phones especially cell phones are completely compromised. They are universally aware that the government can and does spy on people through these. Most are also fuklly aware that this eavesdropping is these days complete, and electronically monitored, with actual programs designed to weed out vast quantities of information. There is far more information than is Overtly being put to use, but they are able to select very much at will.
Small time crooks may not be aware of the last bit, but the bigger guys are, trust me.
The question you must ask yourself, is <b>How stupid do you think these Terrorists are exactly?
Dumber than a street level dope dealer? Well maybe they might be stupid enough to entrust major arrangements or communications to the international or local phone exchanges.
WTH, if they are at least as smart as many criminal gang leaders, they probably would execute anybody of their organisation who ever discussed anything on the phone long before now.
Like Lumens says, the only thing which was leaked was the fact that the Junta IS spying on US citizens for political reasons of the most sinister nature.
Rabbit always said you wouldn’t know if your own arse was on fire and now you have proven it, again.
You will be looking out through the barbed wire before you ever realise you have concentration camps, 600 commisioned from Halliburton, capable of holding tens of millions of people being built for just that purpose.
The question is, who will those tens of millions of people be? Surely you don’t expect it to be Arabs or Muslims, or Terrorists? They are being bombed and shot and poisoned into oblivion as we speak. They are not going to be alive to be held in any camps.
Do you think it will be the Illegal Migrants who are streaming into the country at such an unchecked rate? Who fill all the yucky, and mundane, but absolutely essential tasks for the ordered running of a society, like garbage, and cleaning and menial labour, uncomplainingly and happily for a few percent of what you would call fair wages.? These people are too important to put into camps, too cost effective to waste the valuable swrvice they provide to….............whoever is left…
Are you just angling for your position on the boat WTH? Don’t you realise yet who those seats are reserved for? You really do live in a sheltered small little world.
There are more than enough of them to fill the available comfortable seats with what will be considered minimum health and safety requirements without the need to resort to taking more than a small, robust and submissive slave race with them into the future.
The rest are at this point disposable, across the board. You do belong to the rest sunshine, you won’t even et a cabin in steerage in the NWO.
Posted by Rabbit on Feb 13, 2006 at 8:40 PM
Or the hold with the slaves, for you would make a lousy slave. You’d want too much variety of food, you have already been spoiled an pampered, will expect something better and will thus not easily be satisfied. They will have no use of you any more than of dissidents like the rabbit.
Posted by Rabbit on Feb 13, 2006 at 8:43 PM
SAVE 53% OFFTHE NEWSSTAND PRICE!
Reader Comments
LB,
(Note: I
WTH,
You just couldn’t resist turning my argument around on me, could you. That is why I answered it before you could ask:
<i>I know you are salivating, after reading the above, to ask me why I defend Muslim death threats. Short answer, I don
WTH,
Pardon me if this sounds preachy.
I would like to say a word about ‘happiness’. There is ordinary mundane happiness, which is conditional and subordinate to the fleeting sensations, perceptions and thoughts that assail our temporal existence. e.g.; “This ‘makes’ me happy” or “that ‘makes’ me unhappy”. However, there is a deeper source of limitless satisfaction (called zen in Japanese) where the understanding develops that the apparent mortal fragility of change and loss is in actuality the unending renewal of boundless existence.
This simple shift in perception allows one to be critical of the unpleasant specifics of the current condition of worldly affairs without the danger of falling into cynical despair or mindless pollyannaism. This is the true meaning of moderation. I sincerely desire that form of happiness to be awakened within you.
Namaste
I’ll give you that one, WTH. Feisty. Good show!
WTH is lucky we believe in his existence for he is otherwise a figment of his own imagination it seems. Unless we all have in common the delusion that a Cringer in denial called WTH is inhabiting this thread…............... then maybe he is a figment of our imaginations.
Rabbit for one could not have imagined this sort of creature, not my figment.
Maybe he is a fig?
I don’t know, Rabbit—- it’s this crazy thing—-I’m a little fond of WTH. The patience that Lumens has with this guy is a beautiful thing to behold, too. I feel like I am able to go back to middle school to have another stab at learning algebra, except it’s rhetoric I’m studying. Is that nutty, or what? It doesn’t make any sense.
Wiley, it is cyclical. Once Rabbit also displayed a saintly patience with WTH, beyond even that shown by Lumens now. Rabbit gave WTH the benefit of the doubt time and again. But finallly ever the Rabbit has his limits. About the third time he showed promising progress only to withdraw into total willfull ignorance at the moment of realising he is about to reach a logical, but unpalateable conclusion.
WTH has simply fallen into the category of unsalvageable and therefore expendable.
Rabbit is a mercenary soul, we must cut our losses.
We should realise that the dittoheads have the function of a fifth column in our societies, they should be rooted out and disposed of for freedom’s sake.
LB,
I remember
WTH,
Concerning religion, spirituality and the socially redeeming side of Islam, the old saw applies, “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.” It helps to hear something if you are actively listening for it. I seem to remember a recent conversation where I directed you a widely distributed and celebrated fatwa explicitly denouncing terrorism. All the feedback you gave me was to argue that certain Koranic verses cited were interpretable (by an idiot!) as permitting terrorism. Do you see my problem here?
LB,
Have any Islamic “nations” spoken up with peaceful sounding comments?(not just not advocating death to us)
I have read articles quoting Islamic verses which sound a lot like some Biblical admonitions to do good and not harm, but I would like to have a proclamation from a representative Muslim group decrying the violence. Preferably a group who might moderate the radical faction.
Unfortunately, major religions all have some verses which the nut cases can recite to justify nearly anything they want.
The problem IMO is that people tend take literally writings which are meant to be allegorical or mythical.
Long ago I came to believe much of what is in the Bible may be true, but it is not true just because it is in the Bible - it is in there because someone experienced it to be so.
Do you recall the site denouncing terrorism?
WTH,
Salaam
Is it too difficult then to conclude that nut cases who cannot percieve the deeper mythical meanings of scripture and use them only in a superficial manner to justify their unjustifiable beliefs and actions are not really religious in any meaningful way?
WTH better late than never I suppose.
Informed people who read Rense or Jones for example knew several days ago that three of the cartoons purported by the Danish Imams to be from the Jyllands Posten were frauds. One was plucked from AP and had nothing to do with Muslims or Mohammed but was an entrant in a Pig squealing contest in France, he just happened to have a beard. One is of a Dog rooting someone bending over praying and another is a childish cartoon to do with peadophilia. There is no maybe about it. It has also been established that person responsible for publishing “Rose” is a Neo-con faithful as well.
It was a deliberate provocation WTH and this is not the first time pictures and cartoons depicting Mohammed have been depicted. Read this and get a few clues if you dare.
One view of who and how
Another, similar.
Probably a waste of time, one can lead a horse to water at least.
WTH did you just ask if any Islamic Nations are condemning the violence over the cartoons? You cannot be for real. Most of them have condemned the violence you clown. They have aksed their citizencs to be calm and to protest in orderly ways, to avoid violence and they have been doing everything in their power to protect the embassies and foreigners.
You live in a fantasy world for sure. Just because the TV only shows a few rent a crowd groups chanting and acting like goatheads. You can at least find the reports of the truth from the internet, make an effort you lazy sack of hubris.
A few clues from a five minute search to show WTH the real face of the Middle Eastern Governments’ response.
Does WTH understand that people in a protesting crowd do not represent their government in the ME any more than in the USA?
Lebanon apologises to DK
Still Lebanon but Muslim Clerics calling for peace and common sense. Surprising to you WTH?
<a href=”[removed]cnnVideo(‘play’,’/video/world/2006/02/05/intv.hamid.karzai.cnn’,‘2006/02/12’);”>Afghan President Hamid Karzai condemned the cartoons and the violent protests. </a>
Syrian officials denounced the violence in Damascus and called on protesters to exercise self-restraint,
That’s a start for you WTH. Careful you don’t dent any preconceptions won’t you.
LB,
<i>“Some
“The problem is THEY can be convinced that they ARE being meaningfully religious.”
The bigger problem is WE believing THEIR false beliefs are central to Islam. It is no different than saying Pat Robertson speaks for all Christians. Or calling those who disagree with US policy ‘anti-American’.
These guys are criminals. In international law, US law and Sharia law. Criminals always rationalize their crimes. It should not be that difficult to make the distinction. By invading an Islamic, if secular, country that had nothing to do with 911 we have ceded our own legitimacy and created a horrible fucking mess. Returning criminal acts with criminal acts.
OK LUME, WHAT YEAR WERE YOU BORN IF YOU DON’T MIND. ? not51?
Or what Chinese horoscope if you don’t wish to masticate the meal before ninnies digest it?
The Ox, Rabbit. 1949
Stubborn and methodological, combined with a sun in Libra, adaptive in seeking harmony and balance. My workbench tends to chaos as the work’s symmetry emerges.
Returning to the original theme of this article…
Assuming U.S intelligence was getting valuable info from the cell phones of those planning attacks here or elsewhere, now that the tactic has been exposed is there any value in contining the practice?
These guys are not stupid.
On the other hand, we have a history of telling our opponents, “Ready or not, here we come.”
LBJ announced a major air attack in time for the Vietnamese to man their AA and set up for the correct altitude.
What tactic was exposed, WTH? The only thing exposed was the avoidance of legally required FISA procedures.
The NSA is dedicated to the monitoring of international communications. It isn’t a secret.
LB,
“What tactic was exposed?”
They will not continue to use phones which can be monitored, so there is no chance to pick up on their conversations
WTH,
Why would they have thought phones weren’t being monitored? The NSA monitors every kind of communication 24/7, rain or shine, war or no war. It is common knowledge. As you said, they aren’t stupid.
What an extraordinary world these people have imagined for themselves!!!
WTH, it may be helpful for you to think of the following.
Criminals, are fully aware that all phones especially cell phones are completely compromised. They are universally aware that the government can and does spy on people through these. Most are also fuklly aware that this eavesdropping is these days complete, and electronically monitored, with actual programs designed to weed out vast quantities of information. There is far more information than is Overtly being put to use, but they are able to select very much at will.
Small time crooks may not be aware of the last bit, but the bigger guys are, trust me.
The question you must ask yourself, is <b>How stupid do you think these Terrorists are exactly?
Dumber than a street level dope dealer? Well maybe they might be stupid enough to entrust major arrangements or communications to the international or local phone exchanges.
WTH, if they are at least as smart as many criminal gang leaders, they probably would execute anybody of their organisation who ever discussed anything on the phone long before now.
Like Lumens says, the only thing which was leaked was the fact that the Junta IS spying on US citizens for political reasons of the most sinister nature.
Rabbit always said you wouldn’t know if your own arse was on fire and now you have proven it, again.
You will be looking out through the barbed wire before you ever realise you have concentration camps, 600 commisioned from Halliburton, capable of holding tens of millions of people being built for just that purpose.
The question is, who will those tens of millions of people be? Surely you don’t expect it to be Arabs or Muslims, or Terrorists? They are being bombed and shot and poisoned into oblivion as we speak. They are not going to be alive to be held in any camps.
Do you think it will be the Illegal Migrants who are streaming into the country at such an unchecked rate? Who fill all the yucky, and mundane, but absolutely essential tasks for the ordered running of a society, like garbage, and cleaning and menial labour, uncomplainingly and happily for a few percent of what you would call fair wages.? These people are too important to put into camps, too cost effective to waste the valuable swrvice they provide to….............whoever is left…
Are you just angling for your position on the boat WTH? Don’t you realise yet who those seats are reserved for? You really do live in a sheltered small little world.
There are more than enough of them to fill the available comfortable seats with what will be considered minimum health and safety requirements without the need to resort to taking more than a small, robust and submissive slave race with them into the future.
The rest are at this point disposable, across the board. You do belong to the rest sunshine, you won’t even et a cabin in steerage in the NWO.
Or the hold with the slaves, for you would make a lousy slave. You’d want too much variety of food, you have already been spoiled an pampered, will expect something better and will thus not easily be satisfied. They will have no use of you any more than of dissidents like the rabbit.
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