Tim: “Do you think OJ killed his wife?”
Red: “Yes, I do.”
————
Okay, then. So we think O.J. killed his wife.
Don’t you think that propaganda experts in Iraq, wishing to portray the US as “not a very nice place,” might be inclined to show graphic pictures of a slaughtered Nicole Brown Simpson, then show pictures of OJ reclining on a beach with a cold beer? Maybe the headline would be “Land of the Free, Frees Murderers with Enough Fame.”
What’s my point here?
Simply that you can’t make broad-sweeping assumptions about the people of Iraq on the basis of a morgue from the mid-80’s. (When we supported Saddam, incidentally) This is particularly true when you KNOW that the US administration and embedded media have a MAJOR stake in finding the most grotesque examples possible of Saddam’s human rights violations.
As you mentioned YESTERDAY, if they don’t find chemical weapons, they’re going to need a really concerted PR campaign to make the Iraqis look “extra evil,” or else this war is going to look like “kicking the crap out of some bad-dude’s grandma,” in hindsight.
I’m NOT suggesting that atrocities are not happening in Iraq all of the time, but C’MON!...Be a little critical of the press!(they’ve earned it, after all)
...How many people are executed in the US every year…? What do you think electrocuted bodies look like? What would the Iraqi people think if THEY saw pictures of our austere, multi-million dollar death chambers, and body after body of rotting, “state executed criminals?”
If we want to get really outraged about something, let’s get outraged about streets of Baghdad littered with fresh, burning corpses right now! This morning the proud claims from the Pentagon are that between 2,000-3,000 Iraqis were killed in the south yesterday. How many of those young Iraqi boys do you think had any CHOICE in this matter…? Or if you can’t get sufficiently ruffled about dead troops, lets talk about civilians… and if that doesn’t work, we’ve still got plenty of “our” folk who have been massacred in “friendly fire” incidents. (It is awfully “friendly,” isn’t it?)
There is an AGENDA at work, here. Don’t you believe that, yet? Don’t think for a moment that if I had creative control over a “news network,” I couldn’t paint any country I WANTED like an evil place… (Isn’t that your criticism of Michael Moore, after all?)
-Tim
Posted by Tim on Apr 6, 2003 at 12:30 PM
“Bufoon” “Fat Fuck” “Gnat” “Idiot” ....these are but a few of the unwarranted abuses that have been hurled at Michael Moore; of course, these words say far more about the people who wrote them than they’ll ever say about Michael. When it comes to the point that people feel the need to pick on what they think are personal flaws - Michael’s weight, for instance - you know they’re either cornered, intellectually bankrupt, or just plain bitter loose cannons, whose blind and raging ignorance will never bring about bliss. Whereas these same fools who look at Michael see little more than the belly that precedes him, I see a most inspiring, honorable, and essential man and artist - inspiring, because he motivates me to also do my part to make this world a better, more livable place - honorable, because so much of what he does is selfless, and for the interest of common people whose voices are rarely heard - and essential, because without people like Michael, this world is a far less hopeful, far less compassionate place. My best regards to everyone who supports Mr. Moore - let’s follow his example and get involved!
Posted by Jarrod San Angel on Apr 6, 2003 at 1:42 PM
BREAKING NEWS: “Over 900 killed in Congo fighting: UN”
“NAIROBI - United Nations investigators discovered that 966 people died in a massacre in northeastern Congo on Thursday, a UN spokesman said Sunday [...]The investigators found 20 mass graves in the region, Toure said.”
oh-oh…It sounds like these people need “defending.” They don’t have any oil in the Congo, do they?
Posted by Tim on Apr 6, 2003 at 2:38 PM
Martin,
You live in a small, peaceful, and I’m sure beautiful country. My Grandmother came from Denmark and my grandfather from Sweden. I would love to visit there someday and explore my roots.
The U.S. is a huge, diverse, powerful country and comparing the two is really not fair on either side. I only did it to point out that with all the differences, people kill other people roughly in the same proportion in each country. (whether by gun or other means, you’re still dead) Here in the U.S. in 2001, 16000 people were murdered. In Denmark, 200 people were murdered. Corrected for population, you would have had 12000 murders. Like I said, you are slightly safer. Maybe it would have been more accurate to say somewhat safer. So that’s good for you.
That being said, to blame guns for everything is simplistic, and a dangerous distraction. It is merely a tool that is more readily available here. If it weren’t, I would venture to guess that other means would be employed to facilitate mankind’s unfortunate homicidal endeavors. Resourceful Danes have apparently found such other means. Time wasted trying to deny law-abiding citizens their constitutional right to bear arms and ability to defend themselves could be better spent addressing the root causes of murder, two of which IMHO are the breakdown of the family and the failures of the education system.
I would submit to you that if Denmark were to allow it’s law-abiding citizens to have guns, your murder rate would be even lower. And your breaking and entering rate which is nearly 2.5 times ours would fall substantially.
I guess I’m gonna have to see that silly movie. Not sure I can stand to enrich MM further or even if it’s come to our silly little island yet. But I will reluctantly consider it.
Liloan (1/4 Danish) mmmmm….danish
http://reason.com/0001/fe.js.cold.shtml
Posted by Liloan Stitch on Apr 6, 2003 at 2:42 PM
To Lilo:
The last time we had 200 murders in Denmark was during the war where the resistance and german symphatisers killed each other off. Now a days we have 50 a year and last year being a bad year, we had 60.
And it’s not that we’re more peaceful or less inclined to use weapons. 4 or 5 years back we had what is now known as “The Great Scandinavian Bikerwar” where Bandidos and Hells Angles were fighting in Denmark, Norway and Sweeden over turf and drug sales. At least 10 people were killed in that war in Denmark alone, and the bikers used everything from Sawn off shotguns, Sniper Rifles, Hand Grenades, plastic explosives and (Believe it or not) AT4 anti-Tank rockets.
Thankfully it was mostly amaeur night attacks and thankfully only 2 bystanders were killed, but it also precipitated an almost complete ban on Bikers. Special laws are now in place that limits their civil liberties to an extend not normally seen in this country. That was as a direct consequence of the weapons usage and I thoroughly support it. To sum it all up: Only criminals and policemen carry guns in Denmark…........Nobody uses them though.
Martin Hansen.
Posted by Martin Hansen on Apr 6, 2003 at 3:02 PM
Red,
I grew up in the Sixties, too.
I shouldn’t be arguing with someone who has no facts and can’t take things in context.
Did you READ what I put on my post? “Were you throwing bottles at the protesters?”
Have people no right to peacefully protest? The majority of the civil rights movements were peaceful.
Like the 60’s, there’s a group to fear and demonize, this time it’s the sand nigger.
The 50’s, it was Russia
The 60’s it was China/Vietnam
The 70’s it was Vietnam
The 80’s it was South America
The 90’s PEACE (8 years of Bill Clinton(
2000 Bush fucks everything up.
Posted by neil on Apr 6, 2003 at 3:50 PM
All this anger!!!
Neil, you are the biggest racist of them all! I don’t know about Red but I have read your posts & you are exactly what is wrong with this world.
You are what you despise!
Posted by Hmmmm on Apr 6, 2003 at 3:58 PM
Neil
You ARE the poster child for Ignorance Anonymous!
Enjoy your evening abusing the others on this forum.
Perhaps you are still dealing with the anger caused by your brother’s death. Nonetheless,
I have grown tired of you & your pointless rantings that only showcase what a jerk you really are.
Goodnight
Posted by Red on Apr 6, 2003 at 4:09 PM
Hey, Linda, Can’t you read? Don’t you listen? We’re the Mightiest nation on Earth but have no qualms about beating up on a scrawny, demoralized, continually bombed out, near spear-chucking Soverign country such as Iraq. Also, we have all sorts of contingency plans that would’ve easily neutralized the planes of 9/11 if the fighters whose mission it was to down those flights weren’t ordered to, “stand down”. Also, experienced pilots have already explained that, in a situation as desperate as 9/11, the alleged terrorists being in standing positions while everyone else was strapped down, each would have flipped their aircrafts upside down thus disarming the, “terrorists”, by breaking their necks with the unexpected flip and their subsequent, unavoidable fall. Ominously, some of these pilots are aware that our, spy-radar planes-AWACs-have the capacity, using electromagnetic pulse emissions, to disable the controls of any large commercial airliner. So, yes, your Bush baby had EVERYTHING to do with what happened that day. The alternative to this would mean such appalingly abysmal incompitence that ALL intelligence, law enforcement, and military teams responsible for preventing catastrophies such as these- should have been immediately been brought before an independent Grand Jury and then quickly jailed for the crime of Depraved Indifference. Instead, many were actually promoted! Does this ring a bell inside that lock-step gray-matter-less organ between your ears? Well, here’s a website you should visit if you want the full story written by truly intrepid and investigative journalists worthy of that name: www.petitiononline.com or maybe: fromthewilderness.com. Don’t you see that ONLY citizens who question authority are actually living up to the expectations of our Founding Fathers and the legacy they left us- including The Constitution and original Bill Of Rights. WAKE UP and fear NOT to questioningly peer into the eyes of those who would keep secret what legally belongs to THE PEOPLE! ASK THE QUESTIONS YOU KNOW THEY DON’T WANT TO ANSWER! The fact they don’t want to answer, no matter what excuse they give, should make you realize they have much to hide. After all, those who are forced to endure, (WE THE PEOPLE), have the LEGITIMATE RIGHT TO KNOW!
Posted by Dom on Apr 6, 2003 at 4:18 PM
Tina,
I don’t suggest that you are a callous person, or that you have no empathetic capacity whatsoever…Clearly anyone with even half a heart is wounded by the thought of people dying, and also of our young troops learning to kill. (War does peculiar things to one’s moral compass, to say nothing of one’s psychological health. I imagine your family connections to veterans has taught you that.)
It may be that we’re at an impasse. You persist in your belief that this war is “just,” and I continue to be extremely sceptical:
-Sceptical of the war’s justification;
-of the coalition’s claim to “moral high ground”;
-of the positive short and long-term outcomes of this war;
-of the war’s effect on global terrorism;
-of the endless media “cheerleading”....etc…
As far as “empathy” is concerned, I was pretty sure that the atrocity of 9/11 would change the way we looked at exploding skylines.
I THOUGHT that we in countries that have never known war on our soil(first hand), would be LESS inclined to see pictures of Baghdad in flames as a video-game… I THOUGHT that we’d be able to imagine the firemen in that part of the world running into burning buildings, past screaming children…police desperately trying to control panic…
Two weeks into this campaign, though, I’m not convinced we’ve learned anything from 9/11.
The Iraqis have never done ANYTHING to us, and ALL of their neighbouring countries (including Iran and Kuwait—countries they have attacked in the past), have expressed reservations about this invasion. The Iraqis themselves appear divided on the issue, and my impression is that as many people in Baghdad are planning to FIGHT the coalition troops as there are are people who are ‘tossing daisies’ at the occupying army.
May God have mercy on us all.
-Tim
ps—> Just a question: Are Iraqi civilians within their right to shoot coalition soldiers who invade their homes looking for “bad guys?”
Posted by Tim on Apr 6, 2003 at 4:22 PM
Since 9/11 benefitted Bush in a
multitude of ways, maybe he was
ultimately behind it. We must impeach this mad cowboy disease
before the Supreme Court can
re-select him.
Michael Moore is the rare and ballsy
hero of our time!!
Posted by Terry Wycuff on Apr 6, 2003 at 5:09 PM
Hey Neil, get a hold of yourself or save the tough-guy talk for the next meeting of the Friendly Sons of St. Patrick. By the way, I’ll be sure to lay off the mick remarks because you really sound tough on the computer
Posted by Sam on Apr 6, 2003 at 5:25 PM
Okay Sam,
Sorry about that. It’s cowardly of me to make such statements. I’m going against everything I’m talking about just by doing it.
I can be a douche-bag sometimes.
Just hope all this ends soon.
Cheers
Posted by neil on Apr 6, 2003 at 5:38 PM
The one person I won’t apologize to is Red.
He has attacked me first and can’t listen to reason. His thinking is why we’re in this mess in the first place.
Tired of my rantings? Okay, Mr. conservative nation who won’t listen to reason. Be gone—go to Fox news or some other patting yourselves on the back for killing innocent Iraqi’s and spew your hate-filled filth then accume ME of being a jerk.
Yes, you prove all of us against this war correct.
You get on a forum where we discuss a peaceful solution and call names and make accusations. What do you expect from me?
Be fruitful and go multiply yourself.
Have I been abusive? No, truthful. Have I called you names, No. You call me a jerk. I got upset about the Mick remark, but I apoligize about that. Get my Irish ire up.
Prove all of us right on this forum. We are right. YOU ARE WRONG. Everyone supporting this war is wrong.
Oh! Is that the insult you’re talking about? That’s no insult, it’s the truth.
One thing I will say to you, you better NEVER mention my brother’s death again. Cold, callous fucking assholes like you are just why people get upset on this forum.
How’s that, now I get my name calling in on you you fucking asshole.
Posted by neil on Apr 6, 2003 at 5:46 PM
Thanks Michael Moore. Good to see somebody stand up like a real American.
Posted by Ed Gutierrez-Perry on Apr 6, 2003 at 8:12 PM
Dom from Long Island: Hey, Linda, Can’t you read? Don’t you listen?
Posted by linda z on Apr 6, 2003 at 8:23 PM
Michael Moore hospitalized!
Sunday, April 06, 2003
Michael Moore was hospitalized after choking on his Oscar, which he mistook for foil wrapped chocolate Easter Bunny. Several doctors were suspended from their jobs for refusing to treat him. He is now under care of veterinarian.
Posted by Michael on Apr 6, 2003 at 8:43 PM
He is a good man.
Posted by chris on Apr 6, 2003 at 10:54 PM
To all who speak against Moore,
You are all entitled to your opinion’s but - WAKE UP! We lost control of our country a long time ago, and most of you have lost control of your minds as well. Of course you won’t believe this because you are unaware it has happened. It’s part of the game - and your losing. Moore is a man who sees the truth and isn’t afraid to speak it. For those who see the truth and don’t speak it, because they are afraid of change, get ready because you bank account and your roof are going to come crashing in on you soon enough. With the way Bush is handling our country we are being pushed rapidly towards an economic crisis, and because Sadaam has no ties with terrorism, his arab “brothers” who are terrorists, will see this war for what it really is and hit us more and harder than ever before. We are doomed with this present day government in every aspect of the game. And those who support this war please realize that it your dollar that is paying for this war, and it is your chidren who are dieing in it. These politicians are uneffected by this war. They will not pay a dime, and they will not lose any children. This is why it is so easy for them to pull the trigger. You sit in front of your computers and act like children insulting M.Moore thinking he hasn’t heard this critisism all his life. It fuels him. It was people like Moore back in the 1700’s who had the guts to stand up for their human rights and obtain this beautiful in the first place. And it was critics like you who sat in the soon to be revolutionized Monarchy in England. Whether we regain control of our country or we let it be destroyed by terrorists or our own government you will all see Moore was right. I pray that you all on day see the truth, peacefully
GOD BLESS AMERICA
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS - bring them home NOW!
PEACE
Posted by chris on Apr 6, 2003 at 11:19 PM
I apologize, this will be slightly tangent.
World War II is associated with religious intolerance. Ignorance of a dictator that was willing to destroy civilization in order to obtain his utopia of a jewish free nation. I am a college student and recently took a class on Einstein’s theory of relativity. I got very interested in Einstein and read up on him quite well. One fact that I came across: Einstein was Jewish! So, Eistein was a German Jew living in the time of Hitler’s rise to power. As it turned out, Einstein left Germany just before the exterminations began to take up a professorship at Princton (I believe it was princeton).
The pont I am driving at here is that had Einstein not accepted that job, he would have stayed in Germany and probably been sent to die with his fellow jews. In this circumstance, we wouldnt know the photoelectirc effect, the theory of relativity, and all of the great math/physics idea’s he left us with.
Why? Ignorance. Many great minds have been destroyed because people cant get along! Pythagorus, Gallileo, etc… the list is long.
How much wisdom and knoledge has been destroyed through time because of this? How far could the human race have come by now? This is VERY frustrating to me. We are the worst thing to ever happen to us.
It would be nice if it wasnt so ideal to ask for peace. However, we dont live in an ideal world. Look into Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, or just the plain facts: they all say that the world is unbelievably corrupt. Strangely, it may take war to get peace in a world like this. Unfortunately, all I have to base my opinions on are the skewed news reports on tv or in the paper. I dont know which side is more at fault, the US or Iraq. I guess we are both fucked in our own ways. Saddam needs to go away, and we need to make sure that America doesnt collapse on itself economically while we remove saddam.
I wonder if there are any “Einsteins” out there today? Hopefully they can make it through this war to enlighten us with their great ideas someday.
I hate to sound negative, but it is hard to see human existence as anything but tragic at times like these.
Posted by Jason on Apr 7, 2003 at 12:42 AM
Keep up saying what you’re saying! I can assure you: Here in Europe and particuliary in Austria - once a large empire, now a small, neutral country - all those critical songs like Boom are on air and Bowling For Columbine still fills the cinemas. It doesn’t really matter if something is WRONG or RIGHT. It is never as simple as this. Just USE YOUR GODGIVEN BRAINS, mates!
Posted by Paul on Apr 7, 2003 at 2:59 AM
lilo & stich really lives in a cartoon world, hope nobody shoot them because bullets are made of iron rather than paper, but may be this will never happen, may be he’ll shoot in advance whoever want to approach him
to all the gun nuts americans: shoot yourselves and free from danger the peaceful ones
you’ll sustain your economy too, don’t miss the opportunity!
Posted by zorro on Apr 7, 2003 at 3:26 AM
are the people in america making a “market research” to identifynext USA enemy? is that already identidied or we must wait a few months before you start another war somewhere? wouls it be someone who you supported in the past (like most of the times) or somebody new to all of us ? waiting for your top 10 of the enemies! new entries every day!
Posted by zorro on Apr 7, 2003 at 3:50 AM
I am also an American and 4 year military veteran who served in Vietnam (among other places). Like Michael, I went ot Mass (yes another Catholic) and can say I’m proud that the Pope, Catholic and other Christian denominations see through the lies and are basically echoing Moore’s Oscar comments.
I love this country and in my wildest dreams (30-40 years ago) never thought the USA would become what some of us older folks feared most.
I pray for the men and women who are serving, I also pray for God (through Jesus) to give Dubya a sound talking to.
No I am no commie 5th columnist, I just mourn over that this country has become more and more an immoral cesspool for the greedy and elite to splash around in.
In ending I’m glad I’m not in my teens or 20’s today, oh well just my 5c worth
Also as a long time friend of Bill W, Dubya should get himself to an AA meeting ASAP, I’ll keep a seat warm for him.
Bigboote’s Area51
http://users.rcn.com/bigbooty/
Posted by Bigboote on Apr 7, 2003 at 5:03 AM
I read all your comments but I couldn’t care less, no matter what I’ll keep on supporting all my business partners even if it’s against american people, because they gave me so much money that to pay them back I’
Posted by george w bush on Apr 7, 2003 at 6:07 AM
NEIL FROM BOISE:
You have done the anti-war movement proud with your eloquence and acumen. America is a better place with open-minded and enlightened people like you. I envy your crystaline grasp on all of the issues at hand.
Sarcasm aside:
A little defensive about the whole “get out my homeland” thing? Did I hurt your feelings? Strike a nerve did I? You call me narrow-minded and then come up with gems like “you are the reason people tell me they hate Denver when they move to Idaho.” Brilliant.
I’d really like to see you try to spew your filth face to face with one of our fighting men or women, or one of their family members, and see what the response is. I’ll bet it just pisses you off to no end that Jessica Lynch was actually rescued and that our brave fighting boys and girls are actually winning this war. I’ll bet that just makes you so mad that you can’t even see straight.
But this is falling on deaf ears! I’m sure you are still standing tall and resolute alongside your honorable French brethren who deface World War Two cemeteries in your shared struggle against “injustice.” Did you supply the spray paint? Do you still have your Viet Cong flag from the heady, gallant days of the 60’s peace movement?
I, too, have tried to refrain from name calling, but when I read your abysmal trash, the words “insolent” and “prick” come to mind.
It is really unfortunate that my sons are not old enough for me to explain what a real monster you are.
Respond all you want. I’m done with you and this site for good. Have a nice life, fellow American.
Posted by Tom on Apr 7, 2003 at 6:07 AM
Did you know that CIA sponsored right wings extremists (fascists) in Italy during 60 and 70, that put several bombs in public squares and trains killing hundreds? but this was to fight communism therefore well worth it.
If you are a terrorist be sure to be on the right side, you could become rich if CIA likes you otherwise you could have somebody bombing you….
Posted by pinocchio on Apr 7, 2003 at 6:18 AM
Poor Neil…
Did I make you mad? GOOD! You have been attacking the others on this forum & spewing your hate for days! Don’t like what I have to say? TOO BAD!!! I had to listen to your idiotic knee jerk responses!
Hate your country? By all means don’t let any of us stop you from leaving!! Whether you are for this war or against I think most sane, rational people will agree that fighting hate with hate makes YOU part of the problem!
Not that anyone would expect you to “get it”.
Enjoy your life… I’m out of here…
Posted by Red on Apr 7, 2003 at 8:04 AM
wans’t it beeter a cigar in Lewinsky’s pussy than missiles in Saddam’s ass? next time you know, vote for safe sex, not for sure war
Posted by Bill Clinton on Apr 7, 2003 at 9:05 AM
I AGREE ON EVRY THING YOU SAY.
GEORGE BUSH IS AN ASS HOLE.
THE AMERICANS ARE BEEN BRAIN WASHED OR SOMETHING. WELL MOST OF THEM!
Posted by billy on Apr 7, 2003 at 10:34 AM
After reading through this forum it’s interesting to see that those who oppose Michael Moore’s viewpoint mostly can only post hollow insults at him (e.g. “fat fuck” by Mark(3/24/03), “supreme buffoon,gnat, high school drop out” by Michael Riley(3/24/03) and many more) and don’t offer any logical, educated counter viewpoint. On the other hand I’ve seen quite the opposite on those who support Mr. Moore. Lots of educated thought is presented by those folks. So I’m wondering if someone who supports the war and Bush can offer some logical, educated reason for the war based on credible facts instead of faulty hearsay. I’m truly interested in what you have to say as long as it makes sense.
Posted by Tim on Apr 7, 2003 at 12:40 PM
impeach president bush.
impeach president bush.
impeach president bush.
impeach president bush.
impeach president bush.
impeach president bush.
impeach president bush.
Posted by neto on Apr 7, 2003 at 1:21 PM
tim from CA.
you should read the posts again & I think you will find that the opposite is true. Start on 3-24.
Posted by Hmmmm on Apr 7, 2003 at 1:25 PM
fuck bush that evil puppet. fuck that silverspoon fed redneck. the idiot can not even write his own speeches. Thats our president.
fuck pres bush fuck pres bush fuck pres bush.
Posted by neto on Apr 7, 2003 at 1:32 PM
Just keep bitching on the computer, nerds, and maybe this will all go away. If you keep insisting that the majority of Americans don’t support the war (despite what the statistics say) then somebody might believe you. Your key move here is to sidestep any material facts in your protest to the war. Like the chemical weapons the U.S. forces found today. Avoid discussing that at all costs, or swear that it was planted by Americans. Then after this war is over find some other fringe cause to throw your weight behind, like getting some convicted killer off death row. Lead us to freedom, Michael Moore. Thank you.
Uncle Ho
Posted by Ho Chi Minh on Apr 7, 2003 at 2:38 PM
Uncle Ho:
Please exercise some critical awareness. You believe already that coalition forces have found “chemical weapons?”
That’s funny… neither CBC nor BBC are carrying that story… and CNN says:
“South of the Iraqi capital, U.S. troops found drums of what may be chemical weapons materials at an agricultural complex.”
Wow. Drums at an agricultural complex! That’s pretty conclusive, isn’t it?
Good grief. (Actually, I heard that the barrels MAY have dismembered premature babies in them…)
Keep watching that ONE station, friend… They’ll “show you the way”
Consult the non-profit media group FAIR for analysis of war coverage:
http://www.fair.org/
(then again, you might not want to trust someone without an overt commercial agenda)
Posted by Tim on Apr 7, 2003 at 3:03 PM
I was not able to hear Mr.Moore’s Speach at the oscars, However IUpon reading his speech, the comments of thers and the messages they were sending I felt a true sense of Motavation. His words are truth a truth that is undaunted by popular though. These words ar the way that it is
from Mike saying “we have fictitious election results that elect a fictitious president.” Along with his words about the fact that, “we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons” Shows in my eyes that thre are R.E.A.L. Americans out there
I Define this acurnim as R:Reasonable
E:Educated
A:Aware
L:Logical thinking
Praise to you and to all who support and do not fear what we now must declare a war on terror on, Which is a war on Neo-Imperalism and a National Socialst President Bush And his Regime of Evil and corruption
“SPEAK OUT AMERICAN, or elese WEW WONT HAVE A VOICE TO SPEAK WITH”
Posted by Daniel Farkas on Apr 7, 2003 at 3:12 PM
Thank God that someone has the guts to stand up and speak the truth. God Bless Michael Moore, he is my hero. The dumbfucks at boycott.hollywood.com just increased the list of artists whose works I will watch, read, and listen to. Thanks! And a big ol’ ‘Fuck You’ to Dubya the Dipshit.
Posted by soulrebel on Apr 7, 2003 at 3:24 PM
Linda Z. from N.Y. I think you know I wasn’t speaking of you. Perhaps my anger is becoming, as anger always will, counterproductive and narrow-minded. Understand, however, that as far as YOUR missives are concerned, I find them thoughtful, well-balanced, witty, and poised compared to my own and most other rantings herein. I am listening to clip #105b on: blackop radio.com, featuring Col. Fletcher Prouty as I write this. His eloquence coupled with his special knowledge as an insider during the years when the sowing of the seeds we now reap occcured- is of the greatest revelations which anyone with his enormous wisdom and insight, practical and critical, has divulged to the unaware citizens of this world. We all need to listen to him because he is one of the few whistleblowers who have not been, “disappeared”, despite the sensitive nature and devestating content of his revelations. He is dead now and we who have had our eyes opened by him feel much as we did after the endless political assassinations, both physical and psycical, which took place during his tenure from within the darkest, most secret confines of the secret government. I recommend him to all who truly wish to know what REALLY occurs behind the doublespeak rhetoric of these times, and why. AND ALL thrust upon us in our name, by dint of our tax dollars. And Linda Z, once again, my sincere apologies.
Posted by Dom on Apr 7, 2003 at 3:43 PM
April 7, 2003 7:15 PM
Tests suggest banned chemicals found
KERBALA, Iraq (Reuters) - Preliminary tests on substances found at a military training camp in central Iraq suggest they contain a cocktail
of banned chemical weapons, including deadly nerve agents, U.S. officers say.
Major Michael Hamlet of the U.S. 101st Airborne Division said the initial tests revealed levels of nerve agents sarin and tabun and the blister
agent lewisite, Reuters correspondent Kieran Murray reported from a U.S. military post at Kerbala.
Hamlet said a team of experts would carry out further tests as early as Tuesday on the substances, discovered at the camp in Albu
Mahawish, on the Euphrates river between the central Iraqi cities of Kerbala and Hilla, site of ancient Babylon.
Posted by Hmmmmm on Apr 7, 2003 at 3:59 PM
I’d like to congradulate Michael Moore on his spectacular speech at the Oscars. He had the guts to say what no one else would. He spoke in agreement with the rest of the world. Bush is going to war for ficticious reasons and anyone who can’t see the obvious ulterior motive behind it has to get their heads out of their asses
Posted by Molly on Apr 7, 2003 at 4:01 PM
You lay out on your back one night, on a patch of grass, and on that lucky night, the sky is clear. The city has quite simply entirely shut down and there is no more electricity - no more energy to fuel the blacklined, gargantuan petroleum bellies which feed the cables, wires, and resistors with man made power. You don
Posted by Stefan on Apr 7, 2003 at 4:06 PM
An entirely different version of the booing of Michael Moore was given by a representative of Salter Street Films, who produced Bowling for Columbine. SSF’s representative, Michael Donovan I believe his name is, was on stage with Moore. According to him, the booing came from the back of the auditorium. The significance being, according to Donovan, that it didn’t come from show biz people, but from people whose only connection with the Oscars was that they had bougth tickets to attend. Donovan said that Moore was embraced by some stage hands after his speech. Donovan’s version was heard on CBC radio a couple of days after the Oscars.
Posted by Ted on Apr 7, 2003 at 4:56 PM
Suspect chemicals find may be a timely weapon for Blair and Bush
CATHERINE LYST
THE discovery of suspected chemical weapons is likely to be seized upon by George W Bush and Tony Blair as vindication of their action against Iraq.
Colin Powell, US secretary of state, has constantly said that Saddam Hussein was in possession of the deadly weapons, but there had so far been no evidence to support his claims.
Iraq’s stance has always been that all chemical weapons were destroyed after the last Gulf war.
Among the suspected agents discovered appear to be the nerve agents sarin and tabun, and the blister agent lewisite.
Sarin and tabun are related nerve agents that can kill when absorbed through the skin or inhaled as a gas. They kill by causing convulsions, paralysis, and asphyxiation.
Sarin was brought to worldwide attention in 1995 when it was used on the Tokyo underground, killing 12 people and injuring 5000 others.
The attack by Aum Shinrikyo, a Japanese religious cult, served as a wake-up call to the world of the threat from chemical and biological weapons.
Members of the cult left small perforated bags of sarin in subway terminals so that the gas would seep out and spread slowly in the confined spaces.
Mustard agent, which was first used in the first world war, begins dissolving tissues on contact and is particularly harmful to eyes and lungs. It does not usually kill, but causes painful injuries that can linger for a lifetime.
Coalition forces also believe they may have found phosgene, a choking agent that causes fluid build-up in the lungs.
Iraq admitted making tons of sarin, tabun, mustard gas, and other chemical weapons. It used mustard gas and sarin in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war and is believed to have used the chemicals against Kurdish Iraqis.
Finding and eliminating Saddam’s chemical and biological weapons is a key goal of the Iraq invasion, and finding such weapons could mute international criticism of the war.
- April 8th
Posted by Hmmmmm on Apr 7, 2003 at 5:20 PM
That report is nonsense. Everybody knows that whoever reported the chemicals is in Bush’s back pocket. Remember, this war is about oil. And Bush is the bad guy. So please quit interrupting our purely ideological rants with facts and evidence that we don’t like. Comrade Moore has never been wrong.
Posted by Ho Chi Minh on Apr 7, 2003 at 5:31 PM
Ho Chi Minh I think I love you!!!!
Posted by Hmmmm on Apr 7, 2003 at 5:35 PM
I traveled to fair.org and there is no news of the chemicals found. must have been a false report. bet those damn americans planted those chemicals, probably had them in their backpacks. as a matter of fact nothing was posted on the war since 4-4. is it over and someone forgot to tell us? damn!
lying journalists.
Posted by Hmmmm on Apr 7, 2003 at 5:40 PM
BAGHDAD, Iraq—In recent days, Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf has been the sole face of the Iraqi government to the foreign press and the outside world. On Monday, that face seemed lost in a room of fun house mirrors.
“American forces are being defeated. We besieged them and killed most of them. We will slaughter them all and bury them in Iraq,” Sahhaf told reporters at a hastily called news conference on the roof of the Palestine hotel in central Baghdad, where most of the international press is staying.
If the information minister had turned slightly and looked a half-mile across the Tigris River, he easily could have seen four of the U.S. Army’s A-2 Bradley fighting vehicles in the back yard of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein’s sprawling palace.
If al-Sahhaf had been there two hours earlier, he would have witnessed an equally dismaying sight: nearly 20 members of the feared Fedayeen Saddam paramilitary force fleeing for their lives down the bank of the Tigris River, some in their underwear.
Posted by mark on Apr 7, 2003 at 5:49 PM
oh I get it! fair.org is there to catch the liars. Guess no one has lied since 4-4.
I stand corrected
Posted by hmmmm on Apr 7, 2003 at 5:55 PM
Mr. Moore is a rare commodity these days…HE SPEAKS THE TRUTH! Yes, the truth hurts, and American people need to educate themselves more on the corupt world of the Bush administration. Makes me extremely proud to be a Canadian. Don’t get me wrong, I have family in the States who support the ‘war on terror’ and I respect their opinion. But the hate for the United States of America throughout the world is quite frightening. good luck
To Mr. Moore:
Thank you for the truth “most” of us wanted to hear. A remarkable work on “Bowling for Columbine.” An award you truly deserved!
Thank you
Posted by Lily on Apr 7, 2003 at 7:07 PM
...and another thing….thank your president for the great support he has provided to his fellow partners: bin Laden and Saddam…Thank You Bush!!!! (hence the sarcasm)
Posted by Lily on Apr 7, 2003 at 7:11 PM
“Mr Moore is a messenger. He comes from a place the human race is headed toward and will eventually reach. This place resides at the core of every human soul. This place has no form, no judgement, no hate, no need for violence or war and no self hatered. This place has no room for any of that. Every soul is but one piece but is part of the whole. This place can be seen in the eyes of a child, it can be heard when our airborn friends sing to us, and can be felt in a hug a smile or the beauty of the cosmos. Its magic surrounds us. It has no god because we are all part of this god. This mysterious force is not really that mysterious. Love, Light and Forgiveness are far more powerfull then war, hate and revenge. Mr Moore is one of the messengers to remind us of this. It’s in you. It’s in me. The world seems to be waking up. I’m glad that so many see and feel the changes. Why are so many shaken by his simple message? He is proof that love and light are more powefull then war and hate. If you look hard enough you can see the light within him. Its the same light that is us all. It’s always in the simple things that bring out the greatness. A smile, a hug, a listen can move mountains. War and hate create more war and more hate. I feel it’s time to get off the merrygoround. Always rememmber, if you look up and smile at the universe, the universe is always smiling back at ya. I like that. When you let go of your fears, your fears let go of you.”
Posted by Crabe Sucks on Apr 7, 2003 at 7:27 PM
“Mr Moore is a messenger. He comes from a place the human race is headed toward and will eventually reach. This place resides at the core of every human soul. This place has no form, no judgement, no hate, no need for violence or war and no self hatered. This place has no room for any of that. Every soul is but one piece but is part of the whole. This place can be seen in the eyes of a child, it can be heard when our airborn friends sing to us, and can be felt in a hug a smile or the beauty of the cosmos. Its magic surrounds us. It has no god because we are all part of this god. This mysterious force is not really that mysterious. Love, Light and Forgiveness are far more powerfull then war, hate and revenge. Mr Moore is one of the messengers to remind us of this. It’s in you. It’s in me. The world seems to be waking up. I’m glad that so many see and feel the changes. Why are so many shaken by his simple message? He is proof that love and light are more powefull then war and hate. If you look hard enough you can see the light within him. Its the same light that is us all. It’s always in the simple things that bring out the greatness. A smile, a hug, a listen can move mountains. War and hate create more war and more hate. I feel it’s time to get off the merrygoround. Always rememmber, if you look up and smile at the universe, the universe is always smiling back at ya. I like that. When you let go of your fears, your fears let go of you.”
Posted by Crabe Sucks on Apr 7, 2003 at 7:27 PM
I love you man…keep up the good work. Tell the truth.
The majority is what you’re speaking for…
Posted by america on Apr 7, 2003 at 8:04 PM
I’ve been reading over the comments on this article, and why is that most of the people that are “anti-Michael Moore” resort to low-brow comments such as “fat fuck” and “this asshole makes me want to puke”? Mr. Moore and I respect your right to express your opinion and we do not resort to childish name calling when you disagree with us. Why can’t you give your opinion with out resorting to the lowest common denominator?
Posted by Joe on Apr 7, 2003 at 9:15 PM
Joe, it’s simply because they have no superior arguments to offer.
Posted by Merlin on Apr 7, 2003 at 9:41 PM
The comments written by the “person” with the wonderful moniker of michaelmooreisafatbastard is an obvious put up job, written by some government swine, intended to give voice to the deluded, uneducated, but armed and angry “Americans”, who cannot say why they want to kill, but , damn it, they gotta! Two things give it away. First the wacky tobacky thing. This is a common play in the upper middle class propaganda game. Rich people think all poor people are on drugs. Forget the fact that Michael does’nt smoke. The intent is to connect pot smokers with radicals, and thus divide by perception control. You’ll pit Grandparents against Grandchildren. The second stinger is the Clinton BJ reference, implying Bill could barely walk, much less run the country, because in the eight years of living in the white house he had sprayed so much jism over the oval office floor that peoples shoes would sometimes be “stuck”, like when you get suctioned into some mud.
I hardly think Bill had the libido for all that boinking, much less the time. Anyway, be on your watch America, the propaganda is rampant. After we get Saddam out, I say we go after Bush. Peacefully, of course.
Posted by darrin on Apr 7, 2003 at 11:10 PM
Anyone who claims that Michael Moore (or any verbal anti-war advocates, including myself) is “anti-american” should quickly reflect on what this country supposedly stands for—a democracy of the people, for the people, by the people. Right on Michael Moore for reminding us of our own rights and showing the misinformed how these rights work. I agree completely—Michael Moore for president!
Posted by Marisa on Apr 7, 2003 at 11:17 PM
I’ll say this for the current political climate in USA, that unless I knew otherwise I would conclude that McCarthy hadn’t lived in vain. That part of history is so easily forgotten in the US, (and I can understand why), but it’s a much taught subject in Europe. That’s because we Europeans finally was able to help out USA, not with military or money, but by rescuing the hard pressed US Intelligencia from paranoia and facism. Just 20 years ealier the persecued of Europe had fled to USA and then the stream turned as USA descended into an orgy of nationalism, naming names and withdrawal of basic human rights. Until now it was presumed that this unfortunate period in US history was over….Then Michael Moore uses his freedom of speech and WHAMMO we’re right back in 1950.
The people who disagree with MM can be put in 2 camps.
1. The people who disagree with him, but wouldn’t dream of hindering his freedom of speech.
2. The people who call him a traitor and professes that he should leave the country or maybe be taken out and shot.
It’s a very fine line between a Republic, (You don’t have democracy), and oligarchic dictatorship. By denying MM his most basic rights you applaud dictatorship and you will get it in the end.
So just send your “undesirables” over here to Europe untill you wake from your Patriotic=Nationalistic rage. We’ll preserve that part of American culture untill you come to your senses.
Martin Hansen
Posted by Martin Hansen on Apr 8, 2003 at 12:11 AM
would the patriots in the US renounce to their weapons of mass destruction to give the right example to the whole world? this would be something the world would appreciate, an effort for peace much bigger than bombing third world countries, please americans, tell me what are you scared of because I cannot really see what it is, why the other countries do not have your fears? are we all blind? or are the americans dumb deaf and blind like the three monkeys? fear is calling for fear death and destruction, cooperation is calling for peace, tolerance and wellness
please make the right choice, just quit your fears and open yourselves to the world, stop the fear start love
Posted by brian on Apr 8, 2003 at 2:56 AM
Well, now that Tom and Red are gone, maybe some intelligent conversation can take place without their hateful retorts.
Yeah, Red, I hate my country.
You point out the very reason I think those who’ve screamed at us, go back and re-read the posts, ARE narrow-minded.
I point out facts and give links, you tell me I hate my country. You think it’s funny I’m upset. You provoked all of this, you and Tom with YOUR name-calling I was harsh but didn’t throw around any names until the end when you did your best to insult my family.
Yeah, it’s childish of me to throw around words like I did, but I care about my country and don’t go around screaming at the left-wing, blaming them for what’s wrong over there. If you read your comments, or if anyone with a brain read your comments, they’d see.
And boy, you’re really thin skinned if you think I was abusing people. I’m just laughing at ridiculous statments like Bush is a moral man.
But, whatever, dude. If you think I’m a jerk because I speak the truth and you won’t bother to see the other side of things, then, you’re a poor judge of character. I feel sorry for those who know you.
Glad you’re out of here so you won’t jump on everything I say.
You and Tom have a day.
Posted by neil on Apr 8, 2003 at 2:59 AM
once I spoke with a girl that was a US soldier in Germany during the 80’s
talking about holidays I told her about how nice it is to enjoy the 1st of may, the labour day
she told me that at the military course they told her that it is a very bad holiday representing communism and that it had to be boycotted
there are much bigger bullshits than this of course but this one is very representative of how narrow minded americans can be
Posted by brian on Apr 8, 2003 at 3:44 AM
America, blah, blah, blah….......I think you yanks are the funniest people in the world! You seriously believe that there is something ‘special’ about yourselves, that you are moral, liberal, honest and just????? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA…..What a hoot! your a two bit, backward, hill billy nation who, according to your own definition of success is the greatest nation in the world….HA HA HA HA HA HA. So then, did someone, somewhere get a flip chart and start writing things like: How to make a FUCKED UP, OVERPOWERFUL BULLYING SUPERPOWER THAT THINKS ITS THE FONT OF CIVILISATION BUT IS ACTUALLY THE FONT OF SOME OF THE MOST SICK AND EVIL SHIT EVER - THINK NUKES THINK HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI - THINK McCARTHYISM & THE SLAUGHTER OF THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE - THINK COCA -COLA AND MONSANTO AND THE KU KLUX KLAN - THINK SPORTS THAT SEPARATE YOU FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD (BASKETBALL??????????? WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT, A BUNCH OF CLOWNS I TELL YOU) - PLEDGING ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG!!!!!!!! WHAT A BUNCH OF THICK FUCKS YOU ARE!!!!
NOW HERES SOME HIGHLIGHTS OF THE LAND OF THE BRAVE(BRAVE?? EASY TO BE BRAVE WITH YOUR ‘SMART BOMBS’ ISNT IT)
Apartheid (a la S. Africa) until 40 years ago? yep;
Blood lust, especially against smaller regimes? - yep;
Gun laws? (although I think its great that you kill each other as it saves Osama & co a few dollars on bullets) - yep.
Dumb ass red neck patriotism - Even your journalist are eager for blood - Iraqi’s, US marines, British - Its all good footage, exciting too!!
AH FUCK THIS, I GIVE UP - FUCK AMERICA YOU BUNCH OF DUMBASS FUCKS
‘AND GOD LOOKED AT HIS CREATION AND DECIDED TO TAKE A DUMP AND THAT DUMP WAS A ‘MELTING POT’ OF ALL THE STUPID FUCKS OF THE WORLD - AND GOD WEPT
Posted by RICHARD OAKS on Apr 8, 2003 at 4:53 AM
what
Posted by Axel on Apr 8, 2003 at 5:05 AM
Thank God we still have honest, educated people like Michael Moore, who can identify a problem and speak out against it. He is not afraid to say what he thinks and feels and speaks right to the television camera, unlike the comments below, who hide behind an anonymous comment. SHAME ON YOU!!
Posted by Ben on Apr 8, 2003 at 5:36 AM
Why dont we invade America? They have an unelected dictator, Weapons of mass distruction, some of the worst poverty and injustices in the western world, a cadre of far right neo nazis (rumsfeld etc..), more secret police than a Nazi despot and an oppressed indigenous people (damn injuns’). They buy and sell votes like stock, infect the world with their Hollywood shit for entertainment and generally think that everyone loves em.
Well I don’t
Some points -
Whats the difference between Bush, Hitler and Mussolini (another bad guy from history for those who received a standard american education or as we in europe say a thick fuck) - Bush didnt get a clear majority.
Whats the difference between the US and The USSR (again, thicko americans, its what they used to call Rush - sha) - After the cold war, The USSR pulled out of Europe.
Whats the difference between Bush and Saddam? It doesnt look likely that any of Saddam kids or relatives will become President one day.
What the difference between Satan and George bush? - Who’d want to be a Thick red necked yank!
Posted by BUSH'S DRUNKEN KIN on Apr 8, 2003 at 6:10 AM
So then, some chemical weaponry has, “definitely”, been located in Iraq, I’m informed by the military through their mouthpieces, the embedded media. How convenient. Amazing that, unlike the massive and techno-omnipotent American-British forces who’ve used thousands of tons of, “depleted uranium”, ordinance…the back-against-the-wall steamrolled Iraqis did not use them against US! Why is that, do you think? Irrefutably it must be for one of two reasons…they are either much more civilized than we are or…these alleged caches of chemical weapons are but convenient, “evidence”, for the justification and vindication of our murderous War policies. I tend to feel the latter reason more in keeping with ALL the big lies which began with Dubbya’s selection. Habit is the most insurmountable human behavior and there is nothing that can stop anyone within the grip of Habit from doing ANYTHING to continue feeding it. After this first pre-emptive strike, it would follow, there will be no stopping our never-ending invasions of other unprovoked nations, for habit requires greater doses for it’s satisfaction as each new, “HIGH”, begins to wear off, and like the junkie, a greater tolerance for the habit’s effects manifests itself in the user. They’ve gotten a taste of blood and now have become vampires thirsting for ever more succulent and blood-rich victims to feed upon. Since there is no, “rehab”, for this sort of addiction, nature, especially human nature will adjust itself as it must to ensure that they and their like-minded potential victims do not suffer the same fate. That adjustment will be referred to as World War Three by future historians, should any remain after the worldwide fall of Nuclear rain.
Posted by Dom on Apr 8, 2003 at 6:36 AM
other good news from the war, the freaking cowboys shoot the jounalist’s hotel with a tank killing 2 and hurting many others
they did know that it was the journalist’s hotel, but they really had to shoot anycase , they just could not change their route and think about the shooters on the top of the hotel later, they really had to kill the journalist’s , the majority were europeans therefore there was no problem in shooting them, they were just reporting bullshit, if they were good ones they would have been in the american lines, not in the city of saddam
USA do not have the most powerful army in the world, they have the dumbest one, the friendly fire against the britons, the russian diplomatics, themselves, the journalists, then the bombing of hospitals, schools private houses,
idiots that’s all I can say about them those soldiers are idiot, and guided by maniacs whose bloodthirst is neverending
no difference with nazi troops SS
shame on US ARMY, NAVY and AIR FORCE MARINES and all the other shitheads in camouflage, you are DANGEROUS even for yourselves, stay at home, it’s better
Posted by brian on Apr 8, 2003 at 7:27 AM
Bush’s Drunken Kin: You are a fucking idiot. Take a look at our constitution, shit-for-brains. Presidents aren’t elected by a majority of the people. They’re elected by the Electoral College. So shut your fucking sewer because you don’t know what you’re talking about. And if you want to invade America, by all means by our guest, you Irish pussy.
Posted by USA on Apr 8, 2003 at 7:51 AM
so it is the electoral college the assholes that elected that idiot
good to know for everybody, you know which house you have to burn to get rid of the rats next time
Posted by brian on Apr 8, 2003 at 8:03 AM
to USA
if you were clever you’d beg for a USA invasion, it would take there the missing wisdom, but it’s better if you just stay there, close the frontiers, quit the international commerce and fuck between cousins to improve your genetic heritage to reach at least the handicapped level
Posted by conan on Apr 8, 2003 at 8:09 AM
This forum has run out of steam.
And Neil, take it easy man, some of your posts make you sound like you’re ready to be the next Malvo.
You can’t attack people for not agreeing with everything you say.
Peace dude!
Posted by LEE on Apr 8, 2003 at 8:15 AM
To Dick Oakley: take a look at a history book and you’ll see that American segregation was a far cry from S. African apartheid. You sound like an uninformed fool when you try to equate the two. And while you’re onthe subject of “bloodlust for smaller regimes,” don’t forget the British invasion on Argentina. And let’s not forget about the people your country controlled all over the world during your stint as an empire. And remember that the British INVENTED concentration camps during the Boer War. And then you voted Churchill out after he saved your asses during WWII. And on the subject of sports, cricket sucks. And if we wanted to be like your socialist piece of shit country we wouldn’t have kicked your asses over two hundred years ago. So go beg for handouts from your socialist government you dirty limey.
Posted by American on Apr 8, 2003 at 8:30 AM
To American:
what if the majority of the people choose a socialist government, shall we put them all to the wall and shoot’em until only the fucking fascists remain alive?
you do not even know what socialism is, idiot
black people was not allowed to sit in a bus where the white were only 40 years ago and the most of the racist crimes are carried out in the USA still today dumbass
wash your mouth before talking shitball
Posted by zorro on Apr 8, 2003 at 8:40 AM
Thank you America. All countries have dirt in their past. Germany. France. Great Britain.
Funny how quick they are to condemn yet they take our money and expect our support.
I say close off the borders and stop helping anyone. Stop taking refugees in and supporting them. No more humanitarian aid. Poor countries? Not our problem.
Bet you’d really hear some bitching then. Bet Chirac would be kissing some Bush butt!
I’d love to see that!
Posted by Ms. American on Apr 8, 2003 at 8:50 AM
To Ms american:
Chile thanks you for your help, Argentina too, the same nicaragua, bolivia, why not? Italy too thanks for the CIA bombs on the trains, thanks a lot
you should really close your borders, build big walls around and hopefully if it rains enough you could all drown eliminating at the same time the highest source of pollution worldwide, sounds good
Posted by zorro on Apr 8, 2003 at 8:58 AM
You’re welcome.
Posted by Ms. American on Apr 8, 2003 at 9:06 AM
Ya’ll,
I was thinkin’. If even one ya sumbitches had any brains in yer head and money in your pockets, you would see that women belong in the damn kitchen, black people belong at KFC, and sadamm and all those towel-heads belong in coffins. Bush is a great man! CNN told me so! I’m sick of all ya damn left wing liberal tree huggin hippies gay-types. Your all talk, but when it comes down to blowing up people for reasons that people other people tell you, you guys just back down.
Where is your spirit? Aren’t you Americans!! Have some pride! FOR shit sake! I mean, I’m proud to be an american. And I feel like we are all being very “American” right now. Think about it. We are stomping through some foreign land for our own gain!! Isn’t that how America came to be!?
If ya’ll really want to know the truth about things, you need to come to Jesus. He died fer our sins and has really no basis on reality. But hey, if I’m told that I should believe in something just because its instrumental in oppressing me, so be it! AMEN! GOD BLESS AMERICA!!
Bud
Posted by Bud on Apr 8, 2003 at 9:11 AM
The truth must be told….
Posted by Jim Stucke on Apr 8, 2003 at 10:53 AM
It’s not just the Pope, the Dixie Chicks, Michael Moore ...and me, it is also a total of 10s of millions of real Americans who believe in the founding principles of America.
I can’t agree in any way with those who are hystericaly screaming “Marxist-Leninist” and “take them out and shoot them” but I, together with the men who wrote our Constitution and the Bill of Rights and, I assume, Michael Moore support their right to voice their opinion. That is what it is all about!
One thing though, I would recommend that those voicing the above mentioned opinions take a couple hours off from the Bush Cheering Squad, read up a little about the former Soviet Union, and then ponder if that institution is not really their ideal homeland. Old Joe Stalin would have been glad to accomodate the “take them out and shoot them” crew, he was a master of the art and he certainly wasn’t interested in fair elections either!
I too, would like to support a MM for president movement, I’m afraid he would go the way of the Kennedys though and that would really be too bad!
Posted by Martin ProBillofRights on Apr 8, 2003 at 11:15 AM
To Mark, whose post preceeds mine: You’re right, this is a democracy that speaks with its wallets. Too bad you’re a DUMB FUCK that didn’t do your research before making stupid comments. I’m sure the loss of a close-minded moron like you from the reading and viewing audience won’t hurt Michael Moore a bit. No tears being shed there!
Attendance at “Bowling for Columbine” was up 110% after the AA (source: Daily Variety/BoxOfficeMojo.com). It is now the longest-running consecutive commercial release in America. The film has now bested the previous box office record for a documentary by nearly 300%.
April 6 “Stupid White Men” shot back to #1 on the New York Times bestseller list.
In the two days following the Oscars, more people pre-ordered the video for “Bowling for Columbine” on Amazon.com than the video for the Oscar winner for Best Picture, “Chicago.”
Michael Moore has obtained funding for his next documentary, and has been offered a slot back on television to do an updated version of “TV Nation”/ “The Awful Truth.”
DEMOCRACY SPEAKS!!
Posted by Jennifer Anderson on Apr 8, 2003 at 11:37 AM
Jennifer Anderson
Posted by Ms. American on Apr 8, 2003 at 12:11 PM
Jennifer,
Perhaps MM’s next book should be
“angry stupid female” in your honor.
Posted by Hmmmmm on Apr 8, 2003 at 12:12 PM
neil from boise:
Lighten up, dude! You’re making the rest of us who share your opinions look bad.
Try some therapy or medication…
Posted by Bernard on Apr 8, 2003 at 12:29 PM
Michael Moore speaks out what a lot of people, especially in Germany etc, think and that is very good.
His film “Bowling for Columbine” is really great and opens one`s eyes!
Posted by Kathrin on Apr 8, 2003 at 12:32 PM
‘ight.
Posted by neil on Apr 8, 2003 at 1:56 PM
It is interesting that those who oppose the views of Michael Moore are the same conservative, republican, sheep, who have a skewed view of what patriotism and democracy truly are. It is also interesting how violent in nature the comments are from these sheep, having been veiled from the truth for so long. I invite these sheep to wake from their slumber and realize that this great nation you defend in your comments is taking you to the cleaners. Thank you Michael Moore for having the guts to say what the sheep are afraid to hear.
Posted by Phil on Apr 8, 2003 at 3:33 PM
Hey Zorro: Why doesn’t Mexico do well in the Olympics? Because every Mexican who can run, jump, or swim is in America. So don’t criticize my country until yours can start keeping people.
Posted by Eisenhower on Apr 8, 2003 at 3:41 PM
guys, i feel very sorry for you. may god and mickey mouse give you power and faith to get over these hard times, until you have developed something which comes close to the state of democracy, culture and respect for human rights what took us some thousand years to develop over here. but maybe you just did not necounter enough wars on your own soil to realize this.
Posted by mick on Apr 8, 2003 at 4:37 PM
Oh, what a tragedy. Europeans don’t like us. Cry me a goddamn river. How foolish of us to value our own security over public opinion in Europe. How dare we elect a president who’s not popular among the globalists and socialists of Europe. This will surely be the last time we ever defy that omnipotent debating club, the UN. And we’ll be sure to ask for France’s approval before we swear in our next president. Please accept this most heartfelt apology on behalf of my country. I am truly sorry we did not heed to expert advice of Saddam’s clients such as Germany, France, and Russia.
Posted by Jane Fonda on Apr 8, 2003 at 4:57 PM
To Jane,
Yes, this war will certainly make you feel a lot safer. All those Iraquis killed who were all potential terrorists (Now it’s just their families), all those nerve agents found (Eviiiiil Sadam shipped it to Al Qaeda already), the Israeli/Palestine conflict under control (As soon as the Israelis actually listen and the Jewish League stop lobbying), the Syrians are no longer Paranoid (They’re now dead certain that they’re next on the US Hit List), Osama is dead or in a Maximum Security Jail (Ahh yes, this war was such a sweet distraction), the missile shield is in place (Only those terrorists don’t use Missiles now do they) and Bush has been elected for a second term (So the Corporate Bosses can get even filthyer rich than they already are). Yup, you’ll be safe…safe as houses.
I’m really only waiting for Bush to continue the blunders of US foreign policies. He’s certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed, so after he’s announced his “new” buddy in the Gulf you can start exporting ABC weapons tech. to them all over again. How about Saudi Arabia? Then 20 years from now you can waltz in and kick their asses and install a new regime.
But you are of course the biggest military power on the planet and might IS right. So the next terror attack will actually be justified. Hey, they had the might to do it, so it MUST be right.
Martin Hansen.
Posted by Martin Hansen on Apr 8, 2003 at 5:32 PM
Michael Moore is a bright star in these times of darkness. May his star continue to shine and enlighten us. Thank you for covering this man who speaks for so many.
Posted by Kathleen on Apr 8, 2003 at 6:54 PM
Glad to see Moore is receiving recognition.
When are Americans going to realise that Capitalism is the worst system ever devised by man? It practices vast returns for the few at the total expense of everyone and everything else. Neither has it any relationship with free enterprise which is fair return for effort.
If you doubt, look at what GM has done to Flint, look at Enron and look at how the Bush entourage are busy giving our country to the corporations.
Unfortunately, many Americans fall for the propaganda because they are so under-educated and brainwashed from birth by advertising
Posted by Peter on Apr 8, 2003 at 8:04 PM
Michael Moore’s documentay is full of serious inacuracies. before you praise him so much you should read this:
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
After reading this I changed from a Michael Moore fan into a non-fan. I don’t apreciate people screwing with me and trying to fool me with a bunch of camera tricks and out of sequence events. I get enough of that from the f—K—G Bush Administration. Like this war. It’s just one big lie after another. Oohh, we got chemicals. No , I guess just fertilizer. But it’s a chemical. and people just rememeber the first headline. I’m so sick of lies and Michael Moore is as full of shit as Bush. especially after his over-practiced little speech about “ficticious”
And another thing. This is supposed to be a documentary. The rules for a documentary in an Oscar are:
Rule Twelve
Special Rules for The Documentary Awards
I. Definition
1. An eligible documentary film is defined as a theatrically released NON-FICTION motion picture dealing creatively with cultural, artistic, historical, social, scientific, economic or other subjects. It may be photographed in actual occurrence, or may employ partial re-enactment, stock footage, stills, animation, stop-motion or other techniques, as long as the emphasis is on FACT AND NOT ON FICTION.
http://www.oscars.org/75academyawards/rules/rule12.html
Good God people let’s not put this guy on such a pedastal there’s plenty of sane arguments out there for not going to war and stuff. Not wise to have our spokesman be a con-artist lest we get pushed even further into the minority what with even liberals now wanting the war by 66%.
Jeff
Posted by Jeff Resnik on Apr 8, 2003 at 10:19 PM
Thank goodness someone had the wherewithal to standup and tell the truth. I speak of both Michael Moore as well as Joel Bleifuss.
Isn’t it strange that those who most vocally support the war are the same ones that act most like Saddam. Like DB who wrote, “MM should be taken out and shot.”
Sounds like DB supports totalitarianism over democracy !
mark, Michael riley and DB, sign up, head for Iraq, show us that you’re true Patriots.
I support our troups, bring them home NOW. We’re going to need them to protect us from the Ashcroft police.
Posted by pkd on Apr 9, 2003 at 3:04 AM
I see some angry punters out there . I smell fear of Mike’s freedom of spech. I wonder what scares them about it? Anyways Mike, like that guy from Canada said mate, if those fools don’t want you we’ll have you!
Never ceases to amaze how these foolz llove to advertise their own stupidity.
Posted by Rob on Apr 9, 2003 at 3:34 AM
The land of the free and the brave.
Hey right who wrote this joke.
long live michael Moore
Posted by ed on Apr 9, 2003 at 3:52 AM
Just a couple of short lines to Mr. Michael Moore.
You’ve Got A Friend
When you’re down and troubled
and you need a helping hand
and nothing, whoa nothing is going right.
Close your eyes and think of me
and soon I will be there
to brighten up even your darkest nights.
(with thanks to J Taylor)
More than that Mike, you’ve got thousands, nay millions of us around the world who admire and respect what your doing. Never let the demons rest, and in the words of Bono ‘don’t let the bastards bring you down.
Of course we all knew Saddam Hussein was scum - yes he had to be removed, yes the Iraqi DESERVE freedom, not a fictitious pawn of another nation (Any nation - The US, Russia, China, Saudi, etc)
Maybe the French and Russians and Chinese have alterior motives?(probably, they havent exactly covered themselves in glory in the past - Tianemen square, Chechnya/Afghanistan, The rainbow warrior flagship of greenpeace that the French secret service blew up, Algeria and on and on).
What about the injustices in Zimbabwe against WHITE(!) farmers? Will anyone ever really make an accounting for the butchery of Rwanda? What about the atrocity of SEPT. 11th (this war has little to do with that horror)?
Bloody sunday, Derry? And on and on. The saddest thing that I have seen since September 11th has been the rise of anti - americanism across the globe. As I say to those who voice anti - americanisms, visit Michaelmoore.com, read the onion, ignore Fox/Sky news and Rupert Murdoch (Who I believe took a comparison between him and Hiler as a compliment - as someone who’s grandfathers and granduncles fought off Nazism for nearly two years before America was literally bombed into the war thats a big fucking insult - but then again, murdoch believes he’s something he’s not. An Australian who became an American because he’s ashamed that he’s really an Irish Mick like myself) America is a great nation with some reprehensible leaders - Think Slick Willy, George - Dessert the Iraqi people to their death - Bush Snr., Richard ‘I’m not a crook, yes I am’ Nixon, Etc. But thats OK, most politicians are leeches and all nations get stuck with morons for leaders - hatred of Bush etc does not equal hatred for america.
Michael Moore, I salute you! Peace, light and prosperity to you and yours, always.
Posted by Ian C on Apr 9, 2003 at 4:27 AM
Mynah Byrd from Anytown USA: >>>Read it and weep, people. Now, get a job!!>>>
Read this and weep.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/articles216.htm
linda z on her way to work.
Posted by linda z on Apr 9, 2003 at 5:14 AM
for jeff:
in my opinion it is the ideas you take out of Moore’s movie that’s important, the single fact which may be fiction, which may be true, is not important at all, I read the critics on your link, it’s like listening to childrens crying out because they hadn’t the gift they wanted, the audience must be mature and understand what is going on, have a stimulation to the brain and start to make their own ideas, that’s the spirit you must have towards that movie, who cares if Heston had the rifle in his hands on friday or thursday? the important idea is that less weapons circulate, less killing will be counted
I guess people down there are used to be taken around by the hand because just unable to build up their own ideas
beign guided by the hand of Bush is the worst thing to do
wake up please use the brain, your brain, get ideas from everywhere build up your coscience with culture and open mind
it’s sensless to look for the little mistakes, you will never have any clear picture
Posted by zorro on Apr 9, 2003 at 8:02 AM
Hope you had a good day at work, Linda
Was just reading through some of Robert Fisk’s previous work. I knew the Iraqi information minister couldn’t have thought up all that dazzling dialog on his own. Now I know…..He had a speech writer.
George Bush has one too, I know.
I feel horrible about civilian casualties, especially children, don’t get me wrong. I have a five year old. But to compare the hundreds of unintended deaths and injuries to the hundreds of thousands of deaths, tortures, and rapes directed by Saddam Hussein, is intellectually silly.
Mynah
Posted by Mynah Byrd on Apr 9, 2003 at 9:20 AM
Yes Mark, you are absolutely right - we are a democracy that speaks with our wallets. Speaking of “fucks” - fat, dumb, or otherwise - too bad YOU didn’t do your research before making your stupid comments:
Attendance at “Bowling for Columbine” was up 110% after the AA (source: Daily Variety/BoxOfficeMojo.com). It is now the longest-running consecutive commercial release in America.
April 6 “Stupid White Men” shot back to #1 on the New York Times bestseller list.
Michael Moore has obtained funding for his next documentary, and has been offered a slot back on TV to do an updated version of “TV Nation”/ “The Awful Truth.”
DEMOCRACY SPEAKS! Listen up, Mark.
Posted by Jennifer Anderson on Apr 9, 2003 at 9:20 AM
Yes Mark, you are absolutely right - we are a democracy that speaks with our wallets. Too bad YOU didn’t do your research before making your stupid comments:
Attendance at “Bowling for Columbine” was up 110% after the AA (source: Daily Variety/BoxOfficeMojo.com). It is now the longest-running consecutive commercial release in America.
April 6 “Stupid White Men” shot back to #1 on the New York Times bestseller list.
Michael Moore has obtained funding for his next documentary, and has been offered a slot back on TV to do an updated version of “TV Nation”/ “The Awful Truth.”
DEMOCRACY SPEAKS! Listen up, Mark.
Posted by Jennifer Anderson on Apr 9, 2003 at 9:24 AM
“I don’t know why people are surprised that France won’t help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn’t help us get the Germans out of France!”
—-Jay Leno
“The last time the French asked for ‘more proof’ it came marching into Paris under a German flag.”
—David Letterman
“The only time France wants us to go to war is when the German Army is sitting in Paris sipping coffee.”
—- Regis Philbin
“I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me.”
—- General George S. Patton
“I just love the French. They taste like chicken!”
——Hannibal Lecter
Posted by humor on Apr 9, 2003 at 9:51 AM
its curious to see the conservative half (well, just a bit less than half, but you know what happens in florida votings…) to critisize Moore speech, but not talking about his FILM. See it first and then you could speak about him. (BTW: Why is wrong that S.Sarandon,S.Penn or M moore talk about politics but its right for A.Swachzenegger or B Willis (who arnt american)to do? Or the -non politized- (^_^) charlton heston to do so? Celebrities can only speak if they are republicans?
Posted by triqui on Apr 9, 2003 at 10:30 AM
A country cannot simultaneously prepare and prevent war.
-albert einstein
One is left with the horrible feeling now that war settles nothing; that to win a war is as disastrous as to lose one.
Agatha Christie
Never has there been a good war or a bad peace
- Benjamin Franklin
You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake.
Jeannette Rankin (1880 - 1973)
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?
Mahatma Gandhi
Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime.
- Ernest Hemingway
Vietnam was the first war ever fought without any censorship. Without censorship, things can get terribly confused in the public mind.
- General William Westmoreland
Naturally, the common people don’t want war ... but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.
- Hermann Goering (nazi leader for propaganda)
I like to believe that people in the long run are going to do more to promote peace than our governments. Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.
Dwight D. Eisenhower (1890 - 1969)
Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.
Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)
“My country, right or wrong,” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother, drunk or sober.”
G. K. Chesterton (1874 - 1936)
Posted by triqui on Apr 9, 2003 at 11:08 AM
Hey all you right-wing christian fascists,
Mike Moore is totally right – I’m proud of him. The problem is, that most of you guys don’t know SHIT about what democracy is about. Freedom of speech? Yeah, as long as you speak MY opinion. Democracy? Sure - you have two political parties, both share the same views. And the Media are either controlled or afraid. “Freedom & Democracy” - my ass! Why bring those things to Iraq - try to get them for yourselves first, guys!
In Germany we have 4 major parties, and their individual positions are really different from each other. On top of that there are two dozens of irrelevant mini-parties. Virtually everybody else in Europe is not too different from that.
The problem with all you “shoot MM” characters is, you don’t have enough intellectual skill to even understand what’s going on in their own country. We already had a fascist dictatorship - we know how that works. Either Americans stand up and get control over their country back NOW, or that’s it for freedom in the US.
Some 12 months ago, we considered America to be our friend and partner - now we and everybody else on this planet consider the US to be the greatest threat to us all. Well done, Governor Bush, that’s the way of making your country a safe place!
It’s not only the question if America will go on bullying the 3rd world - with that disastrous economical and social policies of dubya’s gang going on, how long will it take until the majority of Americans will themselves live under 3rd world conditions? And how do Americans, holding millions of automatic weapons in their homes, usually deal with problems? No idea? Well, watch “Bowling…”. I hope you rednecks like the idea of having a full grown war in your own country, not only on CNN, because you’ll quite probably have one within the next 10 years.
By the way - after cheating his way to power while not being the ruling party, does anyone really expect the republicans to play fair now that they can control the next election from within? Funny - Hitler was legally elected (fact - read an history book) Dubya wasn’t. HA HA.
Well then, enjoy life, go to church and support your troops, lynch some Negroes, toast some criminals, clean your guns and keep on teaching the world about “FREEDOM”, “DEMOCRACY” and “HUMAN RIGHTS”.
Posted by K. Lorenz on Apr 9, 2003 at 1:09 PM
Long Island, April 6, 2003…I had to listen to one of the cable all-news, (all-lies), corporate outlets in a doctor’s office bedecked with flags, bunting, and jingoistic slogans, whose staff wore those, don’t-shoot-or-imprison-me-‘cause-I-got-a-flag on-my-collar-so-you-can see-I’m-with-you-pins. Nauseated, I just went up and shut the TV off. What a rage the room full of people directed at me, whew! Threats, swearing…Then, some huge goon walked up to me. Puffing up his chest, he tried to knock me down with his bulk. I smiled, asking him what size bra he wore. He screamed, “you fuckin’ commie Sadamm suckin’ faggot. If you don’t like it, get the fuck out of here.” To which I replied, “Hey, nice come-back, but if you don’t stop touching me, I’ll show you just how peaceful an real, American-loving pacifist can be”, in a calm, gentle tone. My wife had just broken her wrist because some corporate, “untouchable”, landlords wouldn’t spend a few bucks to fix their neglected sidewalk over which she tripped and nearly broke her skull, (if not for having cushioned the fall with her now broken wrist)...well, she tried pulling me away. But I was super-adrenalized and couldn’t even feel her concerned tug. We eyeballed each other for a few super-tension-filled seconds, this android-thug and I. “Can’t you think of something to say? Have you forgotten what Bill Riley said about vile, un-Americans like me?”, I queried. “I’ll meet you outside, you freak”, he replied. The whole while there was a deafening hush in that waiting room. Some of the doctors came over for a look-see. I overheard one say, “call the cops”. Though amazed at my sudden brass, I was more surprised by the lack of anxiety I felt. When we exited, he goon wasn’t there, but the parking lot was crammed with patrol cars, black vans, and the tense milling about of, “peace-officers, (legal goons), was palpable. Walking stratight through them to our car,I sweetly smiled, pardoned myself, asking one to please let my wife through-which he did. We got into the car. Through my rear-view mirror, I noticed many scribbling down my plate number. I saluted them as we drove by and asked one, “did you see…(here I gave him the goon’s description), he was supposed to meet me outside. Guess he must have forgotten, eh”? 2003…America, Quo Vadis?
Posted by Dom on Apr 9, 2003 at 1:29 PM
Ed from Sydney: Bitch about America all you want, but the fact remains that the only reason your country exists is that the British dumped the dregs of their society on that island. A proud history you have, descending from convicts.
Posted by Tom on Apr 9, 2003 at 1:40 PM
Dom, you are such a fucking pussy. I’ve never heard a grown man bitch so much. “Oh poor me, I’m everybody’s victim. My slut wife busted her ass because the ‘untouchable’ landlord didn’t fix the ‘broken sidewalk.’ All the media are lying to me. I’m so disenfranchised. When is America going to look out for me?” You are pathetic.
Posted by Dom sucks on Apr 9, 2003 at 1:52 PM
Red:
Did you think the same about Saddam before 9/11? Just curious
Posted by Katie on Apr 9, 2003 at 2:50 PM
dom from long island -
I concur with Dom Sucks - you ARE an anti-American, agenda-of-rage freak show. Sit down, shut up, and wait for your next handout, fool.
Posted by Dom does suck on Apr 9, 2003 at 3:00 PM
Go in these Times! Go Micheal!
We need liberal media ‘cause our “liberal” media is conservative. Nice jobs, keep up the good work.
Posted by Marc on Apr 9, 2003 at 5:59 PM
Mynah Byrd from Anytown, USA responding to my link to Robert Fisk
Posted by linda z on Apr 9, 2003 at 6:56 PM
(continued)
The Khartoum government, in partnership with international oil companies, is reaping large and growing profits from the oil fields. Spencer Bachus of Alabama, a conservative Republican, came up with the only realistic way to convince the National Islamic Front to end slavery. He introduced a bill in the Senate which would have prohibited foreign companies from raising capital in the United States
Posted by linda z on Apr 9, 2003 at 6:56 PM
Hey, NAMELESS-you’re a dime a dozen lump of hopeless shit. On another note…All anyone has to do is pretend he or she is a lawyer. If you know the person in the box has lied and now states something he expects everyone to believe, the lawyer will ask, “you’ve lied before in your testifmony…how can we know you’re telling the truth now?” The job of politicians is to lie, cheat, take bribes, sell to the highest bidder for votes…so how can we possibly believe ANYTHING they disseminate to the media, how can we trust them and why should we when our history is replete with facts about people continually being burned by politicians’ lies? It comes down to WANTING to believe this or the other hack in office. On top of that, we all know that the more secrets they keep from us, the more suspect they become. We the people have to suffer ALL the consequences of their decisions and therefore have the ABSOLUTE right to know. Indeed, whatever any taxpayer-funded material is generated BECOMES OURS because WE paid for it-whether or not WE wanted it. And that’s another problem. Who gives them the right to use OUR money in anyway THEY see fit, and usually to our detriment? Look at the condition of our infrastructure. See the prices of food, housing, education, health services, or anything else continue to rise unchecked. See our taxes going up, up, up and being used as corporate welfare or be funneled into the military and penal systems. What will it take some people to just look at their own local state of affairs and decide for themselves? If we’d just compare whether we’re in better or worse shape now than 3 years ago, 20, 30 years ago…or when our parents were able to provide without needing at least two income flows to make ends meet-only one answer would be possible. If you’re honest with yourself the only answer is NO WAY am I or my family remotely well off compared to the past. Where have all our taxes, fees, surcharges, bridge tolls, etc., etc., ad nauseum gone? Who has them? Conservatives blame Liberals and vice-versa. One group wants to invest in the DEATH MACHINE, the latter in PEOPLE. Use your own noggin-YOU understand your situation. Those who you elect aren’t actually going through the crap WE do daily. They’re so far removed from our problems that they might as well be aliens from another galaxy for all they know or care about our daily struggles to merely survive. This is where it’s at, folks. Wake up!
Posted by Dom on Apr 9, 2003 at 7:11 PM
Poor Dom. It’s tough living in the US isn’t it? You don’t want to pay taxes to the penal system, the police, or the military, but you expect to be protected by all three. A little bent out of shape because the government hasn’t solved all your problems, sport? Well keep sulking, entertaining far-fetched conspiracy theories, and ranting on the computer if it makes you feel any better. You are one sad case.
Posted by Donald on Apr 9, 2003 at 7:54 PM
So, you read all the “pussy”, “you’re anti-american”, you “hate your country”, “you bitch and moan” remarks by those who disagree with the liberal stance on this war and then some of them say I am abusive?
I think calling someone anti-American or other ABUSIVE is unimaginative parroting of Bush rhetoric.
I’m glad I have a mind of my own and can make my own conclusions.
Posted by neil on Apr 9, 2003 at 9:03 PM
Thanks Michael Moore. I have dreamt of a making film like yours that gives us the real world just not what ‘they’ want us to see. There are so many untold truths still needing to be aired. I hope other film makers take your lead and and show the truth in their films too. Then people wouldn’t be so concerned about the evil deeds of Saddam Hussein because the number of people he has impinged apon are very few compared to the numbers the USA/UK Coalition has interferred with, hurt, maimed or killed in recent history.
Posted by jane on Apr 9, 2003 at 11:53 PM
Linda,
An amendment would have put an end to slavery in Sudan? An amendment? How bout a war? That’s what ended slavery in this country. Remember? But I guess we couldn’t do that because war is so immoral. Better we have an amendment. Can’t have any of those civilian casualties. Even if two million Christians have been killed and thousands of girls and women have been raped.
Twelve years of economic sanctions wouldn’t bring around ol Saddam. But he found ways around them. Get a load of those palaces? The thugs in Sudan are cut from the same cloth. They be laughing their asses off when they they hear amendments and peace acts have been passed against them. ooooo…an amendment.
I’‘m scaaaaarrrrrred. Oooooo…..a peace act.
What really scares them now is that they know there’s a new sherrif in town. And you think he doesn’t care about the Iraqi people? Well I think he does, but he cares first about yours and my security. You think he’s in it for the bucks? Does he really strike you as the money-hungry type what with his modest little ranch in Crawford? Does he want to impress his “oil buddies”?
He wants the United States to benefit economically? Is that what you’re saying? If he doesn’t care about the Iraqi people and Saddam and his healthy young sons (which are/were even more evil than he is) are no security threat to us or his neighbors, then why didn’t Bush just lobby for the end of sanctions. That would have opened up more oil, lowered the price, and we would would have had an economic boom. Why did we spend untold billions to fight the war and commit more billions to rebuild Iraq if his concern is purely economical? I’m sure you have a logical explanation.
This world like it or not always has been and always will be ruled by the aggressive use of force. I for one am glad America has shown after a long slumber that it’s not afraid to use it.
Mynah
Posted by Mynah Byrd on Apr 10, 2003 at 1:14 AM
Mynah Byrd,
I believe it’s that kind of thinking that brought 9/11 about.
And, of course, Bush and his buddies knew and had this thing in the works all along. If you don’t believe me, there’s tons and tons of articles, NY Times, BBC, Reuters that point this out, the trail, the evidence, the players. Even Republican senators.
To all of you who scream this down, it’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s the truth. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil is how censorship has covered it up.
This war, like Panama, was an immoral act by a supposedly god-fearing nation. Every religious leader condemned it.
Posted by neil on Apr 10, 2003 at 1:30 AM
There is no evidence of a Saddam-Al Qaeda link. See: http://politics.guardian.co.uk/attacks/story/0,1320,885288,00.html
Regime change and pre-emptive attacks are illegal in international law. See: http://www.robincmiller.com/iraq6-fr.htm http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forum/forumnew98.php Under international law every nation has the right to self-determination, sovereignty and territorial integrity. The UN and its charter were founded to prevent colonial and world wars so that powerful nations would not decide to attack, overthrow and occupy weaker nations however distasteful those regimes. Part of self-determination is deciding on the form of government. There is no international law that says every country must be a democracy. No country has the right to determine the form of government of any other country regardless of the nature of the regime. That is clear in international law. It is a governance problem for the Iraqi people to determine their political leadership and form of government even if they have to have a civil war to do so. Just like how we do not like the fact that criminals have constitutional and due process rights, but it would be worse if the government could arbitrarily arrest, imprison and invade citizens’ privacy.
The U.S. is directly responsible for the oppression of the Iraqi people as we facilitated the rise to power of Saddam Hussein and the Ba’ath Party in 1963 when they overthrew General Qassem because he nationalized Iraq’s oil industry. See University of Denver, Colorardo Political Science Professor Wadi Muhaisen’s 11/22/02 Rocky Mountain News article, “America’s Shameful Mideast History”: http://www.endthewar.org/frontps/Op-eds/shameful.htm The U.S. then provided Saddam Hussein with the chemical and biological weapons technology used against the Kurds and Iranians as payback against the Ayatollah Khomeini for overthrowing the Shah of Iran and taking the U.S. embassy hostages in 1979. The U.S. also does not care about extending democracy in the Arab world. Why are we not advocating regime change and democracy for the brutal dictatorships in Saudi Arabia (15 out 19 of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis but no Iraqis and the Wahabi tribe in Saudi Arabia is the biggest sponsor of Al Qaeda) and Egypt not to mention the plutocratic monarchies in the rest of the Arab world such as Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, etc.? Because they provide us cheap oil.
Posted by An observer of White House and media "news" on Apr 10, 2003 at 4:49 AM
The anti-war protesters and peace activists do have a strategy to defeat terrorism besides war and violence by treating terrorist acts as crimes against humanity and pursuing internationally coordinated intelligence and criminal extradition and prosecution to uncover, capture and imprison terrorist cell members hiding in over 60 countries. See Hampshire College political science professor Michael Klare’s articles, “How to Defeat Bin Laden,” and “So, What’s the Answer?”: http://dir.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/13/justice/index.html http://www.progressive.org/0901/klar1101.html
Posted by An observer of White House and media "news" on Apr 10, 2003 at 4:53 AM
Some Iraqis are celebrating. TV news (ABC Nightline) today is also reporting that fighting continues in other parts of Baghdad and throughout Iraq. We don’t know if it is a majority or minority who feel liberated or occupied. The key question is whether or not guerrilla warfare will continue and, if so, for how long. Even President Bush and Vice President Cheney warn that the war is not over yet. The leaders of the Shiite Muslim majority are already boycotting the U.S. talks for the Iraq occupation government and calling for immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. See: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030409/wl_nm/iraq_sciri_dc_1 Notice how President Bush is not calling for immediate elections not even within two years.
U.S.-sponsored Iraqi exile leaders are now calling for the denationalization of Iraqi oil industry and selling it to foreign investors. See: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030405/bs_afp/iraq_war_opposition_oil_030405214324 This war has always really been about oil. See Hampshire College Political Science Professor Michael Klare’s article “Oiling the Wheels of War”: http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20021007&s=klare This is why the U.S. wants to cancel the Russian, French and Chinese contracts with Iraq to develop the oil reserves and also does not want the UN to manage the oil-for-food program any longer. See: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.hts/business/1856839 So much for the Oil being the wealth of the Iraqi “people.” So much for bringing “democracy” to the Iraqi people.
Islamic fundamentalists will probably have a better chance at getting elected after the “interim” occupation government actually allows the Iraqi people to vote whenever that may be, especially if the oil wells and reserves get sold to foreign investors.
We also will see in the future whether or not terrorist attacks will increase here and abroad over the rising Anti-American hatred in the Arab world due to the Iraq war.
Posted by An observer of White House and media "news" on Apr 10, 2003 at 4:57 AM
On the challenges of humanitarian assistance and looting and the corresponding impact on the Iraqi people’s support for our “liberation,” see New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman’s 4/9/03 article, “Hold Your Applause”:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/09/opinion/09FRIE.html
Posted by An observer of White House and media "news" on Apr 10, 2003 at 5:35 AM
YOU GO MIKE!
MICHAEL MOORE IN 2004!!!
Posted by pbaralt on Apr 10, 2003 at 6:31 AM
Neil says:
And, of course, Bush and his buddies knew and had this thing in the works all along. If you don’t believe me, there’s tons and tons of articles, NY Times, BBC, Reuters that point this out, the trail, the evidence, the players. Even Republican senators.
There are plenty of articles written that state just the opposite as well. Why are your sources of information right & others are wrong? How do you know who’s right? I mean let’s pick a side & then find lots of well written articles by people who believe like me & that’ll make me right?
Give me a break!
Posted by Hmmmmm on Apr 10, 2003 at 7:18 AM
It s funny to see that most people that attack M Moore, just say stuff about his looks, his talents; but not one reasonable argument about the content of what he has to say. The people who are supporting this war are usually of aggressive speach, hiding behind words like: Patriot, comunism, dictatorship; or whatever else they read in mainstream papers. It s quite sad, but as Einstein said: Ignorance is the only thing that is surely endless.
Thank God for all the thinking, cultured American people around, as for those will depend the peace around the world.
Michael Moore has all my respect for being brave when so many are cowards.
Posted by lara on Apr 10, 2003 at 7:31 AM
Decapitation Attack On Peace Movement Succeeds
(2003-03-23)—U.S. officials don’t know when, or how it happened, but intelligence in the field indicates that an apparent ‘decapitation attack’ on the peace movement succeeded.
“The anti-Bush protestors are wandering about in clusters, shouting a variety of unrelated messages,” said an unnamed Pentagon source. “It’s clear that there is no cohesive leadership. The protestors look bedraggled and confused. We don’t know when the decapitation attack happened, or who did it. Frankly, we’ve just been ignoring them and moving on to our objectives.”
A spokesman for protestors in San Francisco rejected the Pentagon assertion.
“We’re focused and determined to stop this war for oil and let the Iraqi people run their own democracy,” the spokesman said. “And we must seek justice for gays and do a re-count of the 2000 presidential election ballots and let women choose abortions and Bush is worse than Saddam and we still haven’t captured bin Laden and what about North Korean nukes and world opinion is against us and get Israel out of Palestine and force the U.S. to obey Jacques Chirac and Kofi Annan, and…did I leave anything out? But anyway, that’s our purpose and we will never waver…and, remember, all these protests are spontaneous. The next one is scheduled for tomorrow night at seven.”
Posted by Play Jurist on Apr 10, 2003 at 8:14 AM
So there you have it. Thousands of Iraqi citizens joyously celebrating the collapse of Saddam’s regime in the heart of Baghdad caught on video in six or seven dozen instances. Small Iraqi children kissing American soldiers and Marines on the cheek. Enraptured Iraqi women yelling, “Thank you, George Bush, thank you!!!!”
But wait! Those images came from MSNBC and CNN. It’s all a fabrication! The whole thing was staged! The REAL truth is that our guys are bogged down in southern Iraq, having not advanced past the Kuwaiti border more than 3 miles. In fact, the Iraqi regime is still in control of both the airport and the capitol. Over 10,000 American soldiers have been killed. And even though the American advance was stalled at the Kuwaiti border, 350,000 Baghdad residents have been killed in bombing raids.
It’s only true of it comes from the web links that you intellectual spark-plugs have been so proudly sharing with all of us conservative morons?
Who here wants to be the first one to tell that little kid who kissed one of our guys on the cheek that this war was about oil? Oh, sorry, forgot - that image was manufactured by big bad George Bush’s corporate propoganda machine.
3 weeks to end 3 decades of rape, murder, and torture without having to use 60 infantry divisions and 30,000 four-engine bombers. Not too shabby….
While you poster children for anger management are scurrying around in the darkness of the dead regime that you championed, searching for your next current event to bitch about and blame on our government, keep this phrase in mind: “offering comfort and aid to the enemy is known as ______”
You are all geniuses, you can fill in the blank.
Posted by Conservative D on Apr 10, 2003 at 8:49 AM
e americans think that they are so democartic, example citizens of the free world, that they want to shoot the guy who is standing agains t the government. And I wonder if there is a democartic way of shooting another person? And one other thing I would like to add, if the rest of the world, everyone else but you believed that one plus one is three, just the sheer number of “believers” doesn’t make you wrong. Mr Moore, I salute you!
Posted by Oumer, Religion sucks and so does capitalism on Apr 10, 2003 at 9:00 AM
If uniformity of thought is democracy, then the most democratic regime in the world collapsed more than ten years ago with the socialist party of Ethiopia, my country. My country was so “democratic”, everybody thought the same, at least they showed it that way, because any misalignment with the ideals of the government will result in immediate imprisonment, torture, and execution. Never thought for a day this was the american dream, as some of the people posting messages here seem to portray it. Some Americans think that they are so democartic, example citizens of the free world, that they want to shoot the guy who is standing agains t the government. And I wonder if there is a democartic way of shooting another person? And one other thing I would like to add, if the rest of the world, everyone else but you believed that one plus one is three, just the sheer number of “believers” doesn’t make you wrong. Mr Moore, I salute you!
Posted by Oumer on Apr 10, 2003 at 9:09 AM
Does anyone remember George Orwell’s 1984? The three slogans from the “minstry of thought” were
1. War is peace
2. Freedom is slavery
3. Ignorance is strength
so here is the detail of the three rules under “operation liberate iraq”
1. To bring peace to the iraq people, we raise a war against them
2. We have conquered iraq, so that we will make them free
3. Reporters always report almost the same story, and all the ones that report different story will be stopped by accidental friendly fires, such as the three reporters killed by the US troops some days ago. And this will lead to a high level of ignorance of our nations’ citizens, whose support for us will increase and strengthen our power.
Posted by Oumer on Apr 10, 2003 at 9:30 AM
I am glad I found this forum. It is very informative. You just have to overlook the insults etc. I like people who have a point and say it. Keep on exchanging your ideas
Posted by blue on Apr 10, 2003 at 9:35 AM
There is so much information on these posts. It just seems odd how people keep on believing what they want, the same thing over and over. No matter what else is stated. Or other people have said or proofed.
Posted by blue on Apr 10, 2003 at 9:42 AM
But that was Tuesday. On Wednesday, Baghdad fell, and thrilled, free Iraqis filled the streets. If the “entire world” is to condemn the war in Iraq, it appears they will have to explain their condemnation to the Iraqi’s, too.
Posted by free on Apr 10, 2003 at 10:32 AM
A shadow lifts
Celebrations in Iraq raise curtain on viciousness of Saddam’s cadre of thugs
Apr. 10, 2003 12:00 AM
It is a pity President Bush and his eloquent partner in liberation, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, did not base their call for war against Iraq simply and solely on the principle of freedom from wicked oppression.
The streets of Baghdad filled Wednesday with evidence that a war to end Saddam Hussein’s cruelty would have justified the Iraqi invasion all by itself. Thousands of Iraqis, sensing the thug really was gone at last, exulted in the streets.
They tore down statues of Saddam, dragging the severed head of one statue for all to see, with joyous children riding on top. Women held up their babies so that U.S. soldiers riding by on tanks could kiss them.
Comparisons with the fall of communism in Berlin in 1991 and the liberation of Paris from the Nazis in 1944 seem apt. The joy of freedom rings in Baghdad today, just as it did in those other great cities in years gone by.
In several Iraqi cities, residents took British and American soldiers to see the tyrant’s torture chambers. The evidence of Saddam’s sadism is proliferating.
In Basra, Iraqis - one of whom showed journalists his mangled ears as evidence - described the horror of a white stone torture chamber known as the “White Lion.” There, Saddam’s secret police used electrocutions, immersion in baths of chemicals and ripping out of fingernails and toenails to intimidate the population.
Small wonder Iraqis are so thrilled today. Records of torture and intimidation have been found at the White Lion site, included photographs of people who appear to have been burned alive. The records, said a U.S. soldier, appeared to be very detailed.
Posted by free on Apr 10, 2003 at 10:33 AM
“It looks a bit like Nazi Germany to me,” said a Marine captain.
But while the war may be over, fighting goes on. Desperate bands of Baath Party loyalists and other fanatics continue to roam Baghdad, indiscriminately firing on celebrating Iraqis and U.S. soldiers alike. And northern Iraqi cities, including Saddam’s stronghold Tikrit, have yet to see liberation.
Also, the search must continue for the weapons of mass destruction that prompted the war in Iraq in the first place. There are reports now that Saddam may have stashed his caches of VX gas, sarin, mustard gas and other weapons in the deserts of western Iraq.
Bush must deal now with a growing international call for United Nations weapons inspectors to be re-introduced into Iraq to help find them.
And, of course, the coalition must yet find either Saddam or what’s left of him. The Iraqi landscape clearly is becoming more complicated.
But the Iraqi people are making things as complicated for critics of the war as its resolution is for Bush and Blair.
In Vancouver, British Columbia, inveterate peace activist Jane Fonda told her Canadian audience on Tuesday that “I think the entire world is going to be united against us” over the Iraqi war.
But that was Tuesday. On Wednesday, Baghdad fell, and thrilled, free Iraqis filled the streets. If the “entire world” is to condemn the war in Iraq, it appears they will have to explain their condemnation to the Iraqis, too.
Posted by free on Apr 10, 2003 at 10:34 AM
Hmmmmm,
My level of thinking and intelligence is very high. I don’t know why I waste my time with people who come onto a liberal forum and snear at us, call us names, gloat, nyah, nyah, nyah.
It points out, in my view, the uncompassionate side that the right-wing tends to have. The “fuck you I have mine—go get your own” view that many feel is the thinking of the “moral” majority.
If you believe everything you see on television as fact, such as this dancing in the streets BS the news is covering, and you don’t look at other sources, there’s no point in arguing with you.
All of you, like Conservative D, and all of those who don’t have the balls to put your real name or e-mail addresses on here and then take potshots at the rest of us, are just victims to the propaganda Bush is spreading. If you actually believe the BS his administration says about this war, then God help this country.
Oh, and Conservative D, if any Iraqi was bleeding in front of me, you bet your ass I’d give him aid and comfort.
I do what Jesus would do, and NONE of you seem to share that if you support murder by a greedy administration. Shame on you. If you believe God is a vengeful God, then you’ll have to live with the fact you supported greed over human lives.
Posted by neil on Apr 10, 2003 at 11:25 AM
Neil,
Maybe some of us prefer not to give our real names on this site because you’ve already threatened two people with bodily harm who have disagreed with and/or insulted you (which is a federal offense, there, big guy). Is that what you were talking about when you said you would do what Jesus would do? Is that the compassion of the left-wing?
And you would help a wounded Iraqi? Good for you. How about helping a wounded 18 year old American soldier crying for his mother? Oh, right - he doesn’t get any compassion or help because he’s a murderer. Got it.
Your comments are so full of double-standards and you don’t even see it. So sad.
Sorry for intruding on your “liberal forum.” Last time I checked it was a free country (paid for with the lives of American boys who don’t deserve your “compassion”).
Posted by Conservative D on Apr 10, 2003 at 12:09 PM
I very much like Mr. Moore. I like his reasoning, his honesty, his willingness to speak out. He is a rare duck this Mr. Moore.
America needs more like him.
Thank you Mr. Moore. Please keep up the good work. I am looking forward to your new movie.
I salute you!!
Posted by Geraldine Vaccaro on Apr 10, 2003 at 1:05 PM
As a founder of America stated. “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel” It is obvious that those who want to silence Michael Moore don’t belong in America because American freedom allows us to say any thing we want to, unlike Iran, IRAQ, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Peoples Republic of China etc. If you want silence Michael Moore go to the aformentioned countries where you can silence unloved speech. America Love it or leave it!!!!!!
Posted by Dan Bryant on Apr 10, 2003 at 1:40 PM
Top Ten Things Iraq’s Information Minister Has To Say About The War
10. “We’re pulling down the statues of Saddam to have them cleaned”
9. “Don’t believe that stuff you see on CNN…or NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox or MSNBC”
8. “If you ask me who the winner is, it depends on what your definition of ‘is’ is”
7. “Iraqi television is off the air because we didn’t want you to have to sit through ‘Becker’”
6. “Do you know of any job openings for a lying weasel?”
5. “Wolf Blitzer and I are engaged”
4. “Iraqis are in the streets celebrating Cher’s 40 fabulous years in show business”
3. “Incoming!”
2. “Saddam’s not dead—he’s just out with a case of the shingles”
1. “War? What war?”
Posted by hahahaha on Apr 10, 2003 at 3:16 PM
Posted on Thu, Apr. 10, 2003
France’s Chirac Hails Fall of Saddam
Associated Press
PARIS - France on Thursday hailed the fall of Saddam Hussein, but President Jacques Chirac added that full sovereignty must be returned to Iraq as soon as possible and “with the legitimacy of the United Nations.”
“It is now necessary to create the conditions which will give the Iraqi people its dignity in newfound freedom,” a statement from the French president’s office said.
The most urgent matter at hand is to secure the country so humanitarian aid can get through, it added.
France, which led the effort to avoid war by the U.S.-led coalition, has said it considers the American and British troops on the ground to be the best way to secure Iraq. However, it wants a central role for the United Nations in the process of reconstruction.
“As soon as possible, after the necessary phase of securing (the country), Iraq must return to its full sovereignty in a stabilized region with the legitimacy of the United Nations,” the president’s office said.
President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair agreed over the weekend that the United Nations should have a “vital role” in rebuilding Iraq. However, no one has clearly defined what that means.
“We are at a decisive moment in the history of Iraq,” French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin said, adding that with the fall of Saddam “a somber page is turning.”
“Together, we must build peace in Iraq, and for France that means a central role for the United Nations,” the minister’s statement said.
He added that peace in the Middle East region must also be pursued, “through a determined
search to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.”
Posted by in line for $$$$ on Apr 10, 2003 at 3:38 PM
Germany Targets Islamic Group in Nationwide Raid
Thu April 10, 2003 09:08 AM ET
BERLIN (Reuters) - German police raided more than 80 buildings across the country in a nationwide crackdown on suspected members of a banned Islamic group on Thursday, seizing computers, bank account details and documents.
The raids in 11 states across the country began at 6 a.m., the Interior Ministry said in a statement. It did not say whether there were any arrests.
Germany banned the 50-year-old Islamist Hizb ut-Tahrir organization in January, accusing it of promoting anti-Jewish sentiment in universities and elsewhere. It was the third such group to be banned in Germany under anti-terror legislation adopted after the September 11 attacks on U.S. cities.
“Today’s measures are a clear warning to everyone that we will act against violent propaganda and anti-Semitic agitation… This organization wishes to sow hate and violence,” said Interior Minister Otto Schily who ordered the raid.
Schily has said the organization denies the right of Israel to exist and promotes the use of violence, including the killing of Jews and their expulsion from Israel.
He has said the organization was particularly active on university campuses and noted that three of the September 11 hijackers had been part of an Islamic group active at Hamburg university, where they had studied.
Hizb ut-Tahrir became well known in Germany after staging a rally at Berlin’s Technical University in October at which the main speaker made anti-American comments. Members of Germany’s extreme right-wing NPD were also in attendance.
The ban in January coincided with police raids on more than 25 buildings in five federal states, including Berlin.
Hizb ut-Tahrir (Party of Liberation) was founded in 1953 in Jerusalem by Taqiuddin al-Nabhani and wants a return to the Islamic Caliphate that prevailed during the early rise of Islam.
Its Web site (www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org) says it seeks to replace secular leaders in Arab and Muslim countries with Islamic governments, but says it pursues peaceful methods.
Twenty-five people, including three Britons, are currently on trial in Cairo accused of trying to overthrow the Egyptian government and of spreading propaganda for the Hizb ut-Tahrir, which is banned in Egypt but not in Britain.
The other groups that have been banned in Germany are the Palestinian Al-Aqsa charity and the Kalifatsstaat (Caliphate State).
Posted by well what do you know? on Apr 10, 2003 at 3:40 PM
SAVE 53% OFFTHE NEWSSTAND PRICE!
Reader Comments
Tim: “Do you think OJ killed his wife?”
Red: “Yes, I do.”
————
Okay, then. So we think O.J. killed his wife.
Don’t you think that propaganda experts in Iraq, wishing to portray the US as “not a very nice place,” might be inclined to show graphic pictures of a slaughtered Nicole Brown Simpson, then show pictures of OJ reclining on a beach with a cold beer? Maybe the headline would be “Land of the Free, Frees Murderers with Enough Fame.”
What’s my point here?
Simply that you can’t make broad-sweeping assumptions about the people of Iraq on the basis of a morgue from the mid-80’s. (When we supported Saddam, incidentally) This is particularly true when you KNOW that the US administration and embedded media have a MAJOR stake in finding the most grotesque examples possible of Saddam’s human rights violations.
As you mentioned YESTERDAY, if they don’t find chemical weapons, they’re going to need a really concerted PR campaign to make the Iraqis look “extra evil,” or else this war is going to look like “kicking the crap out of some bad-dude’s grandma,” in hindsight.
I’m NOT suggesting that atrocities are not happening in Iraq all of the time, but C’MON!...Be a little critical of the press!(they’ve earned it, after all)
...How many people are executed in the US every year…? What do you think electrocuted bodies look like? What would the Iraqi people think if THEY saw pictures of our austere, multi-million dollar death chambers, and body after body of rotting, “state executed criminals?”
If we want to get really outraged about something, let’s get outraged about streets of Baghdad littered with fresh, burning corpses right now! This morning the proud claims from the Pentagon are that between 2,000-3,000 Iraqis were killed in the south yesterday. How many of those young Iraqi boys do you think had any CHOICE in this matter…? Or if you can’t get sufficiently ruffled about dead troops, lets talk about civilians… and if that doesn’t work, we’ve still got plenty of “our” folk who have been massacred in “friendly fire” incidents. (It is awfully “friendly,” isn’t it?)
There is an AGENDA at work, here. Don’t you believe that, yet? Don’t think for a moment that if I had creative control over a “news network,” I couldn’t paint any country I WANTED like an evil place… (Isn’t that your criticism of Michael Moore, after all?)
-Tim
“Bufoon” “Fat Fuck” “Gnat” “Idiot” ....these are but a few of the unwarranted abuses that have been hurled at Michael Moore; of course, these words say far more about the people who wrote them than they’ll ever say about Michael. When it comes to the point that people feel the need to pick on what they think are personal flaws - Michael’s weight, for instance - you know they’re either cornered, intellectually bankrupt, or just plain bitter loose cannons, whose blind and raging ignorance will never bring about bliss. Whereas these same fools who look at Michael see little more than the belly that precedes him, I see a most inspiring, honorable, and essential man and artist - inspiring, because he motivates me to also do my part to make this world a better, more livable place - honorable, because so much of what he does is selfless, and for the interest of common people whose voices are rarely heard - and essential, because without people like Michael, this world is a far less hopeful, far less compassionate place. My best regards to everyone who supports Mr. Moore - let’s follow his example and get involved!
BREAKING NEWS: “Over 900 killed in Congo fighting: UN”
“NAIROBI - United Nations investigators discovered that 966 people died in a massacre in northeastern Congo on Thursday, a UN spokesman said Sunday [...]The investigators found 20 mass graves in the region, Toure said.”
oh-oh…It sounds like these people need “defending.” They don’t have any oil in the Congo, do they?
Martin,
You live in a small, peaceful, and I’m sure beautiful country. My Grandmother came from Denmark and my grandfather from Sweden. I would love to visit there someday and explore my roots.
The U.S. is a huge, diverse, powerful country and comparing the two is really not fair on either side. I only did it to point out that with all the differences, people kill other people roughly in the same proportion in each country. (whether by gun or other means, you’re still dead) Here in the U.S. in 2001, 16000 people were murdered. In Denmark, 200 people were murdered. Corrected for population, you would have had 12000 murders. Like I said, you are slightly safer. Maybe it would have been more accurate to say somewhat safer. So that’s good for you.
That being said, to blame guns for everything is simplistic, and a dangerous distraction. It is merely a tool that is more readily available here. If it weren’t, I would venture to guess that other means would be employed to facilitate mankind’s unfortunate homicidal endeavors. Resourceful Danes have apparently found such other means. Time wasted trying to deny law-abiding citizens their constitutional right to bear arms and ability to defend themselves could be better spent addressing the root causes of murder, two of which IMHO are the breakdown of the family and the failures of the education system.
I would submit to you that if Denmark were to allow it’s law-abiding citizens to have guns, your murder rate would be even lower. And your breaking and entering rate which is nearly 2.5 times ours would fall substantially.
I guess I’m gonna have to see that silly movie. Not sure I can stand to enrich MM further or even if it’s come to our silly little island yet. But I will reluctantly consider it.
Liloan (1/4 Danish) mmmmm….danish
http://reason.com/0001/fe.js.cold.shtml
To Lilo:
The last time we had 200 murders in Denmark was during the war where the resistance and german symphatisers killed each other off. Now a days we have 50 a year and last year being a bad year, we had 60.
And it’s not that we’re more peaceful or less inclined to use weapons. 4 or 5 years back we had what is now known as “The Great Scandinavian Bikerwar” where Bandidos and Hells Angles were fighting in Denmark, Norway and Sweeden over turf and drug sales. At least 10 people were killed in that war in Denmark alone, and the bikers used everything from Sawn off shotguns, Sniper Rifles, Hand Grenades, plastic explosives and (Believe it or not) AT4 anti-Tank rockets.
Thankfully it was mostly amaeur night attacks and thankfully only 2 bystanders were killed, but it also precipitated an almost complete ban on Bikers. Special laws are now in place that limits their civil liberties to an extend not normally seen in this country. That was as a direct consequence of the weapons usage and I thoroughly support it. To sum it all up: Only criminals and policemen carry guns in Denmark…........Nobody uses them though.
Martin Hansen.
Red,
I grew up in the Sixties, too.
I shouldn’t be arguing with someone who has no facts and can’t take things in context.
Did you READ what I put on my post? “Were you throwing bottles at the protesters?”
Have people no right to peacefully protest? The majority of the civil rights movements were peaceful.
Like the 60’s, there’s a group to fear and demonize, this time it’s the sand nigger.
The 50’s, it was Russia
The 60’s it was China/Vietnam
The 70’s it was Vietnam
The 80’s it was South America
The 90’s PEACE (8 years of Bill Clinton(
2000 Bush fucks everything up.
All this anger!!!
Neil, you are the biggest racist of them all! I don’t know about Red but I have read your posts & you are exactly what is wrong with this world.
You are what you despise!
Neil
You ARE the poster child for Ignorance Anonymous!
Enjoy your evening abusing the others on this forum.
Perhaps you are still dealing with the anger caused by your brother’s death. Nonetheless,
I have grown tired of you & your pointless rantings that only showcase what a jerk you really are.
Goodnight
Hey, Linda, Can’t you read? Don’t you listen? We’re the Mightiest nation on Earth but have no qualms about beating up on a scrawny, demoralized, continually bombed out, near spear-chucking Soverign country such as Iraq. Also, we have all sorts of contingency plans that would’ve easily neutralized the planes of 9/11 if the fighters whose mission it was to down those flights weren’t ordered to, “stand down”. Also, experienced pilots have already explained that, in a situation as desperate as 9/11, the alleged terrorists being in standing positions while everyone else was strapped down, each would have flipped their aircrafts upside down thus disarming the, “terrorists”, by breaking their necks with the unexpected flip and their subsequent, unavoidable fall. Ominously, some of these pilots are aware that our, spy-radar planes-AWACs-have the capacity, using electromagnetic pulse emissions, to disable the controls of any large commercial airliner. So, yes, your Bush baby had EVERYTHING to do with what happened that day. The alternative to this would mean such appalingly abysmal incompitence that ALL intelligence, law enforcement, and military teams responsible for preventing catastrophies such as these- should have been immediately been brought before an independent Grand Jury and then quickly jailed for the crime of Depraved Indifference. Instead, many were actually promoted! Does this ring a bell inside that lock-step gray-matter-less organ between your ears? Well, here’s a website you should visit if you want the full story written by truly intrepid and investigative journalists worthy of that name: www.petitiononline.com or maybe: fromthewilderness.com. Don’t you see that ONLY citizens who question authority are actually living up to the expectations of our Founding Fathers and the legacy they left us- including The Constitution and original Bill Of Rights. WAKE UP and fear NOT to questioningly peer into the eyes of those who would keep secret what legally belongs to THE PEOPLE! ASK THE QUESTIONS YOU KNOW THEY DON’T WANT TO ANSWER! The fact they don’t want to answer, no matter what excuse they give, should make you realize they have much to hide. After all, those who are forced to endure, (WE THE PEOPLE), have the LEGITIMATE RIGHT TO KNOW!
Tina,
I don’t suggest that you are a callous person, or that you have no empathetic capacity whatsoever…Clearly anyone with even half a heart is wounded by the thought of people dying, and also of our young troops learning to kill. (War does peculiar things to one’s moral compass, to say nothing of one’s psychological health. I imagine your family connections to veterans has taught you that.)
It may be that we’re at an impasse. You persist in your belief that this war is “just,” and I continue to be extremely sceptical:
-Sceptical of the war’s justification;
-of the coalition’s claim to “moral high ground”;
-of the positive short and long-term outcomes of this war;
-of the war’s effect on global terrorism;
-of the endless media “cheerleading”....etc…
As far as “empathy” is concerned, I was pretty sure that the atrocity of 9/11 would change the way we looked at exploding skylines.
I THOUGHT that we in countries that have never known war on our soil(first hand), would be LESS inclined to see pictures of Baghdad in flames as a video-game… I THOUGHT that we’d be able to imagine the firemen in that part of the world running into burning buildings, past screaming children…police desperately trying to control panic…
Two weeks into this campaign, though, I’m not convinced we’ve learned anything from 9/11.
The Iraqis have never done ANYTHING to us, and ALL of their neighbouring countries (including Iran and Kuwait—countries they have attacked in the past), have expressed reservations about this invasion. The Iraqis themselves appear divided on the issue, and my impression is that as many people in Baghdad are planning to FIGHT the coalition troops as there are are people who are ‘tossing daisies’ at the occupying army.
May God have mercy on us all.
-Tim
ps—> Just a question: Are Iraqi civilians within their right to shoot coalition soldiers who invade their homes looking for “bad guys?”
Since 9/11 benefitted Bush in a
multitude of ways, maybe he was
ultimately behind it. We must impeach this mad cowboy disease
before the Supreme Court can
re-select him.
Michael Moore is the rare and ballsy
hero of our time!!
Hey Neil, get a hold of yourself or save the tough-guy talk for the next meeting of the Friendly Sons of St. Patrick. By the way, I’ll be sure to lay off the mick remarks because you really sound tough on the computer
Okay Sam,
Sorry about that. It’s cowardly of me to make such statements. I’m going against everything I’m talking about just by doing it.
I can be a douche-bag sometimes.
Just hope all this ends soon.
Cheers
The one person I won’t apologize to is Red.
He has attacked me first and can’t listen to reason. His thinking is why we’re in this mess in the first place.
Tired of my rantings? Okay, Mr. conservative nation who won’t listen to reason. Be gone—go to Fox news or some other patting yourselves on the back for killing innocent Iraqi’s and spew your hate-filled filth then accume ME of being a jerk.
Yes, you prove all of us against this war correct.
You get on a forum where we discuss a peaceful solution and call names and make accusations. What do you expect from me?
Be fruitful and go multiply yourself.
Have I been abusive? No, truthful. Have I called you names, No. You call me a jerk. I got upset about the Mick remark, but I apoligize about that. Get my Irish ire up.
Prove all of us right on this forum. We are right. YOU ARE WRONG. Everyone supporting this war is wrong.
Oh! Is that the insult you’re talking about? That’s no insult, it’s the truth.
One thing I will say to you, you better NEVER mention my brother’s death again. Cold, callous fucking assholes like you are just why people get upset on this forum.
How’s that, now I get my name calling in on you you fucking asshole.
Thanks Michael Moore. Good to see somebody stand up like a real American.
Dom from Long Island: Hey, Linda, Can’t you read? Don’t you listen?
Michael Moore hospitalized!
Sunday, April 06, 2003
Michael Moore was hospitalized after choking on his Oscar, which he mistook for foil wrapped chocolate Easter Bunny. Several doctors were suspended from their jobs for refusing to treat him. He is now under care of veterinarian.
He is a good man.
To all who speak against Moore,
You are all entitled to your opinion’s but - WAKE UP! We lost control of our country a long time ago, and most of you have lost control of your minds as well. Of course you won’t believe this because you are unaware it has happened. It’s part of the game - and your losing. Moore is a man who sees the truth and isn’t afraid to speak it. For those who see the truth and don’t speak it, because they are afraid of change, get ready because you bank account and your roof are going to come crashing in on you soon enough. With the way Bush is handling our country we are being pushed rapidly towards an economic crisis, and because Sadaam has no ties with terrorism, his arab “brothers” who are terrorists, will see this war for what it really is and hit us more and harder than ever before. We are doomed with this present day government in every aspect of the game. And those who support this war please realize that it your dollar that is paying for this war, and it is your chidren who are dieing in it. These politicians are uneffected by this war. They will not pay a dime, and they will not lose any children. This is why it is so easy for them to pull the trigger. You sit in front of your computers and act like children insulting M.Moore thinking he hasn’t heard this critisism all his life. It fuels him. It was people like Moore back in the 1700’s who had the guts to stand up for their human rights and obtain this beautiful in the first place. And it was critics like you who sat in the soon to be revolutionized Monarchy in England. Whether we regain control of our country or we let it be destroyed by terrorists or our own government you will all see Moore was right. I pray that you all on day see the truth, peacefully
GOD BLESS AMERICA
GOD BLESS OUR TROOPS - bring them home NOW!
PEACE
I apologize, this will be slightly tangent.
World War II is associated with religious intolerance. Ignorance of a dictator that was willing to destroy civilization in order to obtain his utopia of a jewish free nation. I am a college student and recently took a class on Einstein’s theory of relativity. I got very interested in Einstein and read up on him quite well. One fact that I came across: Einstein was Jewish! So, Eistein was a German Jew living in the time of Hitler’s rise to power. As it turned out, Einstein left Germany just before the exterminations began to take up a professorship at Princton (I believe it was princeton).
The pont I am driving at here is that had Einstein not accepted that job, he would have stayed in Germany and probably been sent to die with his fellow jews. In this circumstance, we wouldnt know the photoelectirc effect, the theory of relativity, and all of the great math/physics idea’s he left us with.
Why? Ignorance. Many great minds have been destroyed because people cant get along! Pythagorus, Gallileo, etc… the list is long.
How much wisdom and knoledge has been destroyed through time because of this? How far could the human race have come by now? This is VERY frustrating to me. We are the worst thing to ever happen to us.
It would be nice if it wasnt so ideal to ask for peace. However, we dont live in an ideal world. Look into Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, or just the plain facts: they all say that the world is unbelievably corrupt. Strangely, it may take war to get peace in a world like this. Unfortunately, all I have to base my opinions on are the skewed news reports on tv or in the paper. I dont know which side is more at fault, the US or Iraq. I guess we are both fucked in our own ways. Saddam needs to go away, and we need to make sure that America doesnt collapse on itself economically while we remove saddam.
I wonder if there are any “Einsteins” out there today? Hopefully they can make it through this war to enlighten us with their great ideas someday.
I hate to sound negative, but it is hard to see human existence as anything but tragic at times like these.
Keep up saying what you’re saying! I can assure you: Here in Europe and particuliary in Austria - once a large empire, now a small, neutral country - all those critical songs like Boom are on air and Bowling For Columbine still fills the cinemas. It doesn’t really matter if something is WRONG or RIGHT. It is never as simple as this. Just USE YOUR GODGIVEN BRAINS, mates!
lilo & stich really lives in a cartoon world, hope nobody shoot them because bullets are made of iron rather than paper, but may be this will never happen, may be he’ll shoot in advance whoever want to approach him
to all the gun nuts americans: shoot yourselves and free from danger the peaceful ones
you’ll sustain your economy too, don’t miss the opportunity!
are the people in america making a “market research” to identifynext USA enemy? is that already identidied or we must wait a few months before you start another war somewhere? wouls it be someone who you supported in the past (like most of the times) or somebody new to all of us ? waiting for your top 10 of the enemies! new entries every day!
I am also an American and 4 year military veteran who served in Vietnam (among other places). Like Michael, I went ot Mass (yes another Catholic) and can say I’m proud that the Pope, Catholic and other Christian denominations see through the lies and are basically echoing Moore’s Oscar comments.
I love this country and in my wildest dreams (30-40 years ago) never thought the USA would become what some of us older folks feared most.
I pray for the men and women who are serving, I also pray for God (through Jesus) to give Dubya a sound talking to.
No I am no commie 5th columnist, I just mourn over that this country has become more and more an immoral cesspool for the greedy and elite to splash around in.
In ending I’m glad I’m not in my teens or 20’s today, oh well just my 5c worth
Also as a long time friend of Bill W, Dubya should get himself to an AA meeting ASAP, I’ll keep a seat warm for him.
Bigboote’s Area51
http://users.rcn.com/bigbooty/
I read all your comments but I couldn’t care less, no matter what I’ll keep on supporting all my business partners even if it’s against american people, because they gave me so much money that to pay them back I’
NEIL FROM BOISE:
You have done the anti-war movement proud with your eloquence and acumen. America is a better place with open-minded and enlightened people like you. I envy your crystaline grasp on all of the issues at hand.
Sarcasm aside:
A little defensive about the whole “get out my homeland” thing? Did I hurt your feelings? Strike a nerve did I? You call me narrow-minded and then come up with gems like “you are the reason people tell me they hate Denver when they move to Idaho.” Brilliant.
I’d really like to see you try to spew your filth face to face with one of our fighting men or women, or one of their family members, and see what the response is. I’ll bet it just pisses you off to no end that Jessica Lynch was actually rescued and that our brave fighting boys and girls are actually winning this war. I’ll bet that just makes you so mad that you can’t even see straight.
But this is falling on deaf ears! I’m sure you are still standing tall and resolute alongside your honorable French brethren who deface World War Two cemeteries in your shared struggle against “injustice.” Did you supply the spray paint? Do you still have your Viet Cong flag from the heady, gallant days of the 60’s peace movement?
I, too, have tried to refrain from name calling, but when I read your abysmal trash, the words “insolent” and “prick” come to mind.
It is really unfortunate that my sons are not old enough for me to explain what a real monster you are.
Respond all you want. I’m done with you and this site for good. Have a nice life, fellow American.
Did you know that CIA sponsored right wings extremists (fascists) in Italy during 60 and 70, that put several bombs in public squares and trains killing hundreds? but this was to fight communism therefore well worth it.
If you are a terrorist be sure to be on the right side, you could become rich if CIA likes you otherwise you could have somebody bombing you….
Poor Neil…
Did I make you mad? GOOD! You have been attacking the others on this forum & spewing your hate for days! Don’t like what I have to say? TOO BAD!!! I had to listen to your idiotic knee jerk responses!
Hate your country? By all means don’t let any of us stop you from leaving!! Whether you are for this war or against I think most sane, rational people will agree that fighting hate with hate makes YOU part of the problem!
Not that anyone would expect you to “get it”.
Enjoy your life… I’m out of here…
wans’t it beeter a cigar in Lewinsky’s pussy than missiles in Saddam’s ass? next time you know, vote for safe sex, not for sure war
I AGREE ON EVRY THING YOU SAY.
GEORGE BUSH IS AN ASS HOLE.
THE AMERICANS ARE BEEN BRAIN WASHED OR SOMETHING. WELL MOST OF THEM!
After reading through this forum it’s interesting to see that those who oppose Michael Moore’s viewpoint mostly can only post hollow insults at him (e.g. “fat fuck” by Mark(3/24/03), “supreme buffoon,gnat, high school drop out” by Michael Riley(3/24/03) and many more) and don’t offer any logical, educated counter viewpoint. On the other hand I’ve seen quite the opposite on those who support Mr. Moore. Lots of educated thought is presented by those folks. So I’m wondering if someone who supports the war and Bush can offer some logical, educated reason for the war based on credible facts instead of faulty hearsay. I’m truly interested in what you have to say as long as it makes sense.
impeach president bush.
impeach president bush.
impeach president bush.
impeach president bush.
impeach president bush.
impeach president bush.
impeach president bush.
tim from CA.
you should read the posts again & I think you will find that the opposite is true. Start on 3-24.
fuck bush that evil puppet. fuck that silverspoon fed redneck. the idiot can not even write his own speeches. Thats our president.
fuck pres bush fuck pres bush fuck pres bush.
Just keep bitching on the computer, nerds, and maybe this will all go away. If you keep insisting that the majority of Americans don’t support the war (despite what the statistics say) then somebody might believe you. Your key move here is to sidestep any material facts in your protest to the war. Like the chemical weapons the U.S. forces found today. Avoid discussing that at all costs, or swear that it was planted by Americans. Then after this war is over find some other fringe cause to throw your weight behind, like getting some convicted killer off death row. Lead us to freedom, Michael Moore. Thank you.
Uncle Ho
Uncle Ho:
Please exercise some critical awareness. You believe already that coalition forces have found “chemical weapons?”
That’s funny… neither CBC nor BBC are carrying that story… and CNN says:
“South of the Iraqi capital, U.S. troops found drums of what may be chemical weapons materials at an agricultural complex.”
Wow. Drums at an agricultural complex! That’s pretty conclusive, isn’t it?
Good grief. (Actually, I heard that the barrels MAY have dismembered premature babies in them…)
Keep watching that ONE station, friend… They’ll “show you the way”
Consult the non-profit media group FAIR for analysis of war coverage:
http://www.fair.org/
(then again, you might not want to trust someone without an overt commercial agenda)
I was not able to hear Mr.Moore’s Speach at the oscars, However IUpon reading his speech, the comments of thers and the messages they were sending I felt a true sense of Motavation. His words are truth a truth that is undaunted by popular though. These words ar the way that it is
from Mike saying “we have fictitious election results that elect a fictitious president.” Along with his words about the fact that, “we have a man sending us to war for fictitious reasons” Shows in my eyes that thre are R.E.A.L. Americans out there
I Define this acurnim as R:Reasonable
E:Educated
A:Aware
L:Logical thinking
Praise to you and to all who support and do not fear what we now must declare a war on terror on, Which is a war on Neo-Imperalism and a National Socialst President Bush And his Regime of Evil and corruption
“SPEAK OUT AMERICAN, or elese WEW WONT HAVE A VOICE TO SPEAK WITH”
Thank God that someone has the guts to stand up and speak the truth. God Bless Michael Moore, he is my hero. The dumbfucks at boycott.hollywood.com just increased the list of artists whose works I will watch, read, and listen to. Thanks! And a big ol’ ‘Fuck You’ to Dubya the Dipshit.
Linda Z. from N.Y. I think you know I wasn’t speaking of you. Perhaps my anger is becoming, as anger always will, counterproductive and narrow-minded. Understand, however, that as far as YOUR missives are concerned, I find them thoughtful, well-balanced, witty, and poised compared to my own and most other rantings herein. I am listening to clip #105b on: blackop radio.com, featuring Col. Fletcher Prouty as I write this. His eloquence coupled with his special knowledge as an insider during the years when the sowing of the seeds we now reap occcured- is of the greatest revelations which anyone with his enormous wisdom and insight, practical and critical, has divulged to the unaware citizens of this world. We all need to listen to him because he is one of the few whistleblowers who have not been, “disappeared”, despite the sensitive nature and devestating content of his revelations. He is dead now and we who have had our eyes opened by him feel much as we did after the endless political assassinations, both physical and psycical, which took place during his tenure from within the darkest, most secret confines of the secret government. I recommend him to all who truly wish to know what REALLY occurs behind the doublespeak rhetoric of these times, and why. AND ALL thrust upon us in our name, by dint of our tax dollars. And Linda Z, once again, my sincere apologies.
http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/Swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=1747306
Just for Tim who only trust “his” sources.
April 7, 2003 7:15 PM
Tests suggest banned chemicals found
KERBALA, Iraq (Reuters) - Preliminary tests on substances found at a military training camp in central Iraq suggest they contain a cocktail
of banned chemical weapons, including deadly nerve agents, U.S. officers say.
Major Michael Hamlet of the U.S. 101st Airborne Division said the initial tests revealed levels of nerve agents sarin and tabun and the blister
agent lewisite, Reuters correspondent Kieran Murray reported from a U.S. military post at Kerbala.
Hamlet said a team of experts would carry out further tests as early as Tuesday on the substances, discovered at the camp in Albu
Mahawish, on the Euphrates river between the central Iraqi cities of Kerbala and Hilla, site of ancient Babylon.
I’d like to congradulate Michael Moore on his spectacular speech at the Oscars. He had the guts to say what no one else would. He spoke in agreement with the rest of the world. Bush is going to war for ficticious reasons and anyone who can’t see the obvious ulterior motive behind it has to get their heads out of their asses
You lay out on your back one night, on a patch of grass, and on that lucky night, the sky is clear. The city has quite simply entirely shut down and there is no more electricity - no more energy to fuel the blacklined, gargantuan petroleum bellies which feed the cables, wires, and resistors with man made power. You don
An entirely different version of the booing of Michael Moore was given by a representative of Salter Street Films, who produced Bowling for Columbine. SSF’s representative, Michael Donovan I believe his name is, was on stage with Moore. According to him, the booing came from the back of the auditorium. The significance being, according to Donovan, that it didn’t come from show biz people, but from people whose only connection with the Oscars was that they had bougth tickets to attend. Donovan said that Moore was embraced by some stage hands after his speech. Donovan’s version was heard on CBC radio a couple of days after the Oscars.
Suspect chemicals find may be a timely weapon for Blair and Bush
CATHERINE LYST
THE discovery of suspected chemical weapons is likely to be seized upon by George W Bush and Tony Blair as vindication of their action against Iraq.
Colin Powell, US secretary of state, has constantly said that Saddam Hussein was in possession of the deadly weapons, but there had so far been no evidence to support his claims.
Iraq’s stance has always been that all chemical weapons were destroyed after the last Gulf war.
Among the suspected agents discovered appear to be the nerve agents sarin and tabun, and the blister agent lewisite.
Sarin and tabun are related nerve agents that can kill when absorbed through the skin or inhaled as a gas. They kill by causing convulsions, paralysis, and asphyxiation.
Sarin was brought to worldwide attention in 1995 when it was used on the Tokyo underground, killing 12 people and injuring 5000 others.
The attack by Aum Shinrikyo, a Japanese religious cult, served as a wake-up call to the world of the threat from chemical and biological weapons.
Members of the cult left small perforated bags of sarin in subway terminals so that the gas would seep out and spread slowly in the confined spaces.
Mustard agent, which was first used in the first world war, begins dissolving tissues on contact and is particularly harmful to eyes and lungs. It does not usually kill, but causes painful injuries that can linger for a lifetime.
Coalition forces also believe they may have found phosgene, a choking agent that causes fluid build-up in the lungs.
Iraq admitted making tons of sarin, tabun, mustard gas, and other chemical weapons. It used mustard gas and sarin in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war and is believed to have used the chemicals against Kurdish Iraqis.
Finding and eliminating Saddam’s chemical and biological weapons is a key goal of the Iraq invasion, and finding such weapons could mute international criticism of the war.
- April 8th
That report is nonsense. Everybody knows that whoever reported the chemicals is in Bush’s back pocket. Remember, this war is about oil. And Bush is the bad guy. So please quit interrupting our purely ideological rants with facts and evidence that we don’t like. Comrade Moore has never been wrong.
Ho Chi Minh I think I love you!!!!
I traveled to fair.org and there is no news of the chemicals found. must have been a false report. bet those damn americans planted those chemicals, probably had them in their backpacks. as a matter of fact nothing was posted on the war since 4-4. is it over and someone forgot to tell us? damn!
lying journalists.
BAGHDAD, Iraq—In recent days, Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf has been the sole face of the Iraqi government to the foreign press and the outside world. On Monday, that face seemed lost in a room of fun house mirrors.
“American forces are being defeated. We besieged them and killed most of them. We will slaughter them all and bury them in Iraq,” Sahhaf told reporters at a hastily called news conference on the roof of the Palestine hotel in central Baghdad, where most of the international press is staying.
If the information minister had turned slightly and looked a half-mile across the Tigris River, he easily could have seen four of the U.S. Army’s A-2 Bradley fighting vehicles in the back yard of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein’s sprawling palace.
If al-Sahhaf had been there two hours earlier, he would have witnessed an equally dismaying sight: nearly 20 members of the feared Fedayeen Saddam paramilitary force fleeing for their lives down the bank of the Tigris River, some in their underwear.
oh I get it! fair.org is there to catch the liars. Guess no one has lied since 4-4.
I stand corrected
Mr. Moore is a rare commodity these days…HE SPEAKS THE TRUTH! Yes, the truth hurts, and American people need to educate themselves more on the corupt world of the Bush administration. Makes me extremely proud to be a Canadian. Don’t get me wrong, I have family in the States who support the ‘war on terror’ and I respect their opinion. But the hate for the United States of America throughout the world is quite frightening. good luck
To Mr. Moore:
Thank you for the truth “most” of us wanted to hear. A remarkable work on “Bowling for Columbine.” An award you truly deserved!
Thank you
...and another thing….thank your president for the great support he has provided to his fellow partners: bin Laden and Saddam…Thank You Bush!!!! (hence the sarcasm)
“Mr Moore is a messenger. He comes from a place the human race is headed toward and will eventually reach. This place resides at the core of every human soul. This place has no form, no judgement, no hate, no need for violence or war and no self hatered. This place has no room for any of that. Every soul is but one piece but is part of the whole. This place can be seen in the eyes of a child, it can be heard when our airborn friends sing to us, and can be felt in a hug a smile or the beauty of the cosmos. Its magic surrounds us. It has no god because we are all part of this god. This mysterious force is not really that mysterious. Love, Light and Forgiveness are far more powerfull then war, hate and revenge. Mr Moore is one of the messengers to remind us of this. It’s in you. It’s in me. The world seems to be waking up. I’m glad that so many see and feel the changes. Why are so many shaken by his simple message? He is proof that love and light are more powefull then war and hate. If you look hard enough you can see the light within him. Its the same light that is us all. It’s always in the simple things that bring out the greatness. A smile, a hug, a listen can move mountains. War and hate create more war and more hate. I feel it’s time to get off the merrygoround. Always rememmber, if you look up and smile at the universe, the universe is always smiling back at ya. I like that. When you let go of your fears, your fears let go of you.”
“Mr Moore is a messenger. He comes from a place the human race is headed toward and will eventually reach. This place resides at the core of every human soul. This place has no form, no judgement, no hate, no need for violence or war and no self hatered. This place has no room for any of that. Every soul is but one piece but is part of the whole. This place can be seen in the eyes of a child, it can be heard when our airborn friends sing to us, and can be felt in a hug a smile or the beauty of the cosmos. Its magic surrounds us. It has no god because we are all part of this god. This mysterious force is not really that mysterious. Love, Light and Forgiveness are far more powerfull then war, hate and revenge. Mr Moore is one of the messengers to remind us of this. It’s in you. It’s in me. The world seems to be waking up. I’m glad that so many see and feel the changes. Why are so many shaken by his simple message? He is proof that love and light are more powefull then war and hate. If you look hard enough you can see the light within him. Its the same light that is us all. It’s always in the simple things that bring out the greatness. A smile, a hug, a listen can move mountains. War and hate create more war and more hate. I feel it’s time to get off the merrygoround. Always rememmber, if you look up and smile at the universe, the universe is always smiling back at ya. I like that. When you let go of your fears, your fears let go of you.”
I love you man…keep up the good work. Tell the truth.
The majority is what you’re speaking for…
I’ve been reading over the comments on this article, and why is that most of the people that are “anti-Michael Moore” resort to low-brow comments such as “fat fuck” and “this asshole makes me want to puke”? Mr. Moore and I respect your right to express your opinion and we do not resort to childish name calling when you disagree with us. Why can’t you give your opinion with out resorting to the lowest common denominator?
Joe, it’s simply because they have no superior arguments to offer.
The comments written by the “person” with the wonderful moniker of michaelmooreisafatbastard is an obvious put up job, written by some government swine, intended to give voice to the deluded, uneducated, but armed and angry “Americans”, who cannot say why they want to kill, but , damn it, they gotta! Two things give it away. First the wacky tobacky thing. This is a common play in the upper middle class propaganda game. Rich people think all poor people are on drugs. Forget the fact that Michael does’nt smoke. The intent is to connect pot smokers with radicals, and thus divide by perception control. You’ll pit Grandparents against Grandchildren. The second stinger is the Clinton BJ reference, implying Bill could barely walk, much less run the country, because in the eight years of living in the white house he had sprayed so much jism over the oval office floor that peoples shoes would sometimes be “stuck”, like when you get suctioned into some mud.
I hardly think Bill had the libido for all that boinking, much less the time. Anyway, be on your watch America, the propaganda is rampant. After we get Saddam out, I say we go after Bush. Peacefully, of course.
Anyone who claims that Michael Moore (or any verbal anti-war advocates, including myself) is “anti-american” should quickly reflect on what this country supposedly stands for—a democracy of the people, for the people, by the people. Right on Michael Moore for reminding us of our own rights and showing the misinformed how these rights work. I agree completely—Michael Moore for president!
I’ll say this for the current political climate in USA, that unless I knew otherwise I would conclude that McCarthy hadn’t lived in vain. That part of history is so easily forgotten in the US, (and I can understand why), but it’s a much taught subject in Europe. That’s because we Europeans finally was able to help out USA, not with military or money, but by rescuing the hard pressed US Intelligencia from paranoia and facism. Just 20 years ealier the persecued of Europe had fled to USA and then the stream turned as USA descended into an orgy of nationalism, naming names and withdrawal of basic human rights. Until now it was presumed that this unfortunate period in US history was over….Then Michael Moore uses his freedom of speech and WHAMMO we’re right back in 1950.
The people who disagree with MM can be put in 2 camps.
1. The people who disagree with him, but wouldn’t dream of hindering his freedom of speech.
2. The people who call him a traitor and professes that he should leave the country or maybe be taken out and shot.
It’s a very fine line between a Republic, (You don’t have democracy), and oligarchic dictatorship. By denying MM his most basic rights you applaud dictatorship and you will get it in the end.
So just send your “undesirables” over here to Europe untill you wake from your Patriotic=Nationalistic rage. We’ll preserve that part of American culture untill you come to your senses.
Martin Hansen
would the patriots in the US renounce to their weapons of mass destruction to give the right example to the whole world? this would be something the world would appreciate, an effort for peace much bigger than bombing third world countries, please americans, tell me what are you scared of because I cannot really see what it is, why the other countries do not have your fears? are we all blind? or are the americans dumb deaf and blind like the three monkeys? fear is calling for fear death and destruction, cooperation is calling for peace, tolerance and wellness
please make the right choice, just quit your fears and open yourselves to the world, stop the fear start love
Well, now that Tom and Red are gone, maybe some intelligent conversation can take place without their hateful retorts.
Yeah, Red, I hate my country.
You point out the very reason I think those who’ve screamed at us, go back and re-read the posts, ARE narrow-minded.
I point out facts and give links, you tell me I hate my country. You think it’s funny I’m upset. You provoked all of this, you and Tom with YOUR name-calling I was harsh but didn’t throw around any names until the end when you did your best to insult my family.
Yeah, it’s childish of me to throw around words like I did, but I care about my country and don’t go around screaming at the left-wing, blaming them for what’s wrong over there. If you read your comments, or if anyone with a brain read your comments, they’d see.
And boy, you’re really thin skinned if you think I was abusing people. I’m just laughing at ridiculous statments like Bush is a moral man.
But, whatever, dude. If you think I’m a jerk because I speak the truth and you won’t bother to see the other side of things, then, you’re a poor judge of character. I feel sorry for those who know you.
Glad you’re out of here so you won’t jump on everything I say.
You and Tom have a day.
once I spoke with a girl that was a US soldier in Germany during the 80’s
talking about holidays I told her about how nice it is to enjoy the 1st of may, the labour day
she told me that at the military course they told her that it is a very bad holiday representing communism and that it had to be boycotted
there are much bigger bullshits than this of course but this one is very representative of how narrow minded americans can be
America, blah, blah, blah….......I think you yanks are the funniest people in the world! You seriously believe that there is something ‘special’ about yourselves, that you are moral, liberal, honest and just????? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA…..What a hoot! your a two bit, backward, hill billy nation who, according to your own definition of success is the greatest nation in the world….HA HA HA HA HA HA. So then, did someone, somewhere get a flip chart and start writing things like: How to make a FUCKED UP, OVERPOWERFUL BULLYING SUPERPOWER THAT THINKS ITS THE FONT OF CIVILISATION BUT IS ACTUALLY THE FONT OF SOME OF THE MOST SICK AND EVIL SHIT EVER - THINK NUKES THINK HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI - THINK McCARTHYISM & THE SLAUGHTER OF THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE - THINK COCA -COLA AND MONSANTO AND THE KU KLUX KLAN - THINK SPORTS THAT SEPARATE YOU FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD (BASKETBALL??????????? WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT, A BUNCH OF CLOWNS I TELL YOU) - PLEDGING ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG!!!!!!!! WHAT A BUNCH OF THICK FUCKS YOU ARE!!!!
NOW HERES SOME HIGHLIGHTS OF THE LAND OF THE BRAVE(BRAVE?? EASY TO BE BRAVE WITH YOUR ‘SMART BOMBS’ ISNT IT)
Apartheid (a la S. Africa) until 40 years ago? yep;
Blood lust, especially against smaller regimes? - yep;
Gun laws? (although I think its great that you kill each other as it saves Osama & co a few dollars on bullets) - yep.
Dumb ass red neck patriotism - Even your journalist are eager for blood - Iraqi’s, US marines, British - Its all good footage, exciting too!!
AH FUCK THIS, I GIVE UP - FUCK AMERICA YOU BUNCH OF DUMBASS FUCKS
‘AND GOD LOOKED AT HIS CREATION AND DECIDED TO TAKE A DUMP AND THAT DUMP WAS A ‘MELTING POT’ OF ALL THE STUPID FUCKS OF THE WORLD - AND GOD WEPT
what
Thank God we still have honest, educated people like Michael Moore, who can identify a problem and speak out against it. He is not afraid to say what he thinks and feels and speaks right to the television camera, unlike the comments below, who hide behind an anonymous comment. SHAME ON YOU!!
Why dont we invade America? They have an unelected dictator, Weapons of mass distruction, some of the worst poverty and injustices in the western world, a cadre of far right neo nazis (rumsfeld etc..), more secret police than a Nazi despot and an oppressed indigenous people (damn injuns’). They buy and sell votes like stock, infect the world with their Hollywood shit for entertainment and generally think that everyone loves em.
Well I don’t
Some points -
Whats the difference between Bush, Hitler and Mussolini (another bad guy from history for those who received a standard american education or as we in europe say a thick fuck) - Bush didnt get a clear majority.
Whats the difference between the US and The USSR (again, thicko americans, its what they used to call Rush - sha) - After the cold war, The USSR pulled out of Europe.
Whats the difference between Bush and Saddam? It doesnt look likely that any of Saddam kids or relatives will become President one day.
What the difference between Satan and George bush? - Who’d want to be a Thick red necked yank!
So then, some chemical weaponry has, “definitely”, been located in Iraq, I’m informed by the military through their mouthpieces, the embedded media. How convenient. Amazing that, unlike the massive and techno-omnipotent American-British forces who’ve used thousands of tons of, “depleted uranium”, ordinance…the back-against-the-wall steamrolled Iraqis did not use them against US! Why is that, do you think? Irrefutably it must be for one of two reasons…they are either much more civilized than we are or…these alleged caches of chemical weapons are but convenient, “evidence”, for the justification and vindication of our murderous War policies. I tend to feel the latter reason more in keeping with ALL the big lies which began with Dubbya’s selection. Habit is the most insurmountable human behavior and there is nothing that can stop anyone within the grip of Habit from doing ANYTHING to continue feeding it. After this first pre-emptive strike, it would follow, there will be no stopping our never-ending invasions of other unprovoked nations, for habit requires greater doses for it’s satisfaction as each new, “HIGH”, begins to wear off, and like the junkie, a greater tolerance for the habit’s effects manifests itself in the user. They’ve gotten a taste of blood and now have become vampires thirsting for ever more succulent and blood-rich victims to feed upon. Since there is no, “rehab”, for this sort of addiction, nature, especially human nature will adjust itself as it must to ensure that they and their like-minded potential victims do not suffer the same fate. That adjustment will be referred to as World War Three by future historians, should any remain after the worldwide fall of Nuclear rain.
other good news from the war, the freaking cowboys shoot the jounalist’s hotel with a tank killing 2 and hurting many others
they did know that it was the journalist’s hotel, but they really had to shoot anycase , they just could not change their route and think about the shooters on the top of the hotel later, they really had to kill the journalist’s , the majority were europeans therefore there was no problem in shooting them, they were just reporting bullshit, if they were good ones they would have been in the american lines, not in the city of saddam
USA do not have the most powerful army in the world, they have the dumbest one, the friendly fire against the britons, the russian diplomatics, themselves, the journalists, then the bombing of hospitals, schools private houses,
idiots that’s all I can say about them those soldiers are idiot, and guided by maniacs whose bloodthirst is neverending
no difference with nazi troops SS
shame on US ARMY, NAVY and AIR FORCE MARINES and all the other shitheads in camouflage, you are DANGEROUS even for yourselves, stay at home, it’s better
Bush’s Drunken Kin: You are a fucking idiot. Take a look at our constitution, shit-for-brains. Presidents aren’t elected by a majority of the people. They’re elected by the Electoral College. So shut your fucking sewer because you don’t know what you’re talking about. And if you want to invade America, by all means by our guest, you Irish pussy.
so it is the electoral college the assholes that elected that idiot
good to know for everybody, you know which house you have to burn to get rid of the rats next time
to USA
if you were clever you’d beg for a USA invasion, it would take there the missing wisdom, but it’s better if you just stay there, close the frontiers, quit the international commerce and fuck between cousins to improve your genetic heritage to reach at least the handicapped level
This forum has run out of steam.
And Neil, take it easy man, some of your posts make you sound like you’re ready to be the next Malvo.
You can’t attack people for not agreeing with everything you say.
Peace dude!
To Dick Oakley: take a look at a history book and you’ll see that American segregation was a far cry from S. African apartheid. You sound like an uninformed fool when you try to equate the two. And while you’re onthe subject of “bloodlust for smaller regimes,” don’t forget the British invasion on Argentina. And let’s not forget about the people your country controlled all over the world during your stint as an empire. And remember that the British INVENTED concentration camps during the Boer War. And then you voted Churchill out after he saved your asses during WWII. And on the subject of sports, cricket sucks. And if we wanted to be like your socialist piece of shit country we wouldn’t have kicked your asses over two hundred years ago. So go beg for handouts from your socialist government you dirty limey.
To American:
what if the majority of the people choose a socialist government, shall we put them all to the wall and shoot’em until only the fucking fascists remain alive?
you do not even know what socialism is, idiot
black people was not allowed to sit in a bus where the white were only 40 years ago and the most of the racist crimes are carried out in the USA still today dumbass
wash your mouth before talking shitball
Thank you America. All countries have dirt in their past. Germany. France. Great Britain.
Funny how quick they are to condemn yet they take our money and expect our support.
I say close off the borders and stop helping anyone. Stop taking refugees in and supporting them. No more humanitarian aid. Poor countries? Not our problem.
Bet you’d really hear some bitching then. Bet Chirac would be kissing some Bush butt!
I’d love to see that!
To Ms american:
Chile thanks you for your help, Argentina too, the same nicaragua, bolivia, why not? Italy too thanks for the CIA bombs on the trains, thanks a lot
you should really close your borders, build big walls around and hopefully if it rains enough you could all drown eliminating at the same time the highest source of pollution worldwide, sounds good
You’re welcome.
Ya’ll,
I was thinkin’. If even one ya sumbitches had any brains in yer head and money in your pockets, you would see that women belong in the damn kitchen, black people belong at KFC, and sadamm and all those towel-heads belong in coffins. Bush is a great man! CNN told me so! I’m sick of all ya damn left wing liberal tree huggin hippies gay-types. Your all talk, but when it comes down to blowing up people for reasons that people other people tell you, you guys just back down.
Where is your spirit? Aren’t you Americans!! Have some pride! FOR shit sake! I mean, I’m proud to be an american. And I feel like we are all being very “American” right now. Think about it. We are stomping through some foreign land for our own gain!! Isn’t that how America came to be!?
If ya’ll really want to know the truth about things, you need to come to Jesus. He died fer our sins and has really no basis on reality. But hey, if I’m told that I should believe in something just because its instrumental in oppressing me, so be it! AMEN! GOD BLESS AMERICA!!
Bud
http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2003/04/08042003110800.asp
Read it and weep, people.
Now, get a job!!
Mynah
The truth must be told….
It’s not just the Pope, the Dixie Chicks, Michael Moore ...and me, it is also a total of 10s of millions of real Americans who believe in the founding principles of America.
I can’t agree in any way with those who are hystericaly screaming “Marxist-Leninist” and “take them out and shoot them” but I, together with the men who wrote our Constitution and the Bill of Rights and, I assume, Michael Moore support their right to voice their opinion. That is what it is all about!
One thing though, I would recommend that those voicing the above mentioned opinions take a couple hours off from the Bush Cheering Squad, read up a little about the former Soviet Union, and then ponder if that institution is not really their ideal homeland. Old Joe Stalin would have been glad to accomodate the “take them out and shoot them” crew, he was a master of the art and he certainly wasn’t interested in fair elections either!
I too, would like to support a MM for president movement, I’m afraid he would go the way of the Kennedys though and that would really be too bad!
To Mark, whose post preceeds mine: You’re right, this is a democracy that speaks with its wallets. Too bad you’re a DUMB FUCK that didn’t do your research before making stupid comments. I’m sure the loss of a close-minded moron like you from the reading and viewing audience won’t hurt Michael Moore a bit. No tears being shed there!
Attendance at “Bowling for Columbine” was up 110% after the AA (source: Daily Variety/BoxOfficeMojo.com). It is now the longest-running consecutive commercial release in America. The film has now bested the previous box office record for a documentary by nearly 300%.
April 6 “Stupid White Men” shot back to #1 on the New York Times bestseller list.
In the two days following the Oscars, more people pre-ordered the video for “Bowling for Columbine” on Amazon.com than the video for the Oscar winner for Best Picture, “Chicago.”
Michael Moore has obtained funding for his next documentary, and has been offered a slot back on television to do an updated version of “TV Nation”/ “The Awful Truth.”
DEMOCRACY SPEAKS!!
Jennifer Anderson
Jennifer,
Perhaps MM’s next book should be
“angry stupid female” in your honor.
neil from boise:
Lighten up, dude! You’re making the rest of us who share your opinions look bad.
Try some therapy or medication…
Michael Moore speaks out what a lot of people, especially in Germany etc, think and that is very good.
His film “Bowling for Columbine” is really great and opens one`s eyes!
‘ight.
It is interesting that those who oppose the views of Michael Moore are the same conservative, republican, sheep, who have a skewed view of what patriotism and democracy truly are. It is also interesting how violent in nature the comments are from these sheep, having been veiled from the truth for so long. I invite these sheep to wake from their slumber and realize that this great nation you defend in your comments is taking you to the cleaners. Thank you Michael Moore for having the guts to say what the sheep are afraid to hear.
Hey Zorro: Why doesn’t Mexico do well in the Olympics? Because every Mexican who can run, jump, or swim is in America. So don’t criticize my country until yours can start keeping people.
guys, i feel very sorry for you. may god and mickey mouse give you power and faith to get over these hard times, until you have developed something which comes close to the state of democracy, culture and respect for human rights what took us some thousand years to develop over here. but maybe you just did not necounter enough wars on your own soil to realize this.
Oh, what a tragedy. Europeans don’t like us. Cry me a goddamn river. How foolish of us to value our own security over public opinion in Europe. How dare we elect a president who’s not popular among the globalists and socialists of Europe. This will surely be the last time we ever defy that omnipotent debating club, the UN. And we’ll be sure to ask for France’s approval before we swear in our next president. Please accept this most heartfelt apology on behalf of my country. I am truly sorry we did not heed to expert advice of Saddam’s clients such as Germany, France, and Russia.
To Jane,
Yes, this war will certainly make you feel a lot safer. All those Iraquis killed who were all potential terrorists (Now it’s just their families), all those nerve agents found (Eviiiiil Sadam shipped it to Al Qaeda already), the Israeli/Palestine conflict under control (As soon as the Israelis actually listen and the Jewish League stop lobbying), the Syrians are no longer Paranoid (They’re now dead certain that they’re next on the US Hit List), Osama is dead or in a Maximum Security Jail (Ahh yes, this war was such a sweet distraction), the missile shield is in place (Only those terrorists don’t use Missiles now do they) and Bush has been elected for a second term (So the Corporate Bosses can get even filthyer rich than they already are). Yup, you’ll be safe…safe as houses.
I’m really only waiting for Bush to continue the blunders of US foreign policies. He’s certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed, so after he’s announced his “new” buddy in the Gulf you can start exporting ABC weapons tech. to them all over again. How about Saudi Arabia? Then 20 years from now you can waltz in and kick their asses and install a new regime.
But you are of course the biggest military power on the planet and might IS right. So the next terror attack will actually be justified. Hey, they had the might to do it, so it MUST be right.
Martin Hansen.
Michael Moore is a bright star in these times of darkness. May his star continue to shine and enlighten us. Thank you for covering this man who speaks for so many.
>>>Dom from Long Island: So then, some chemical weaponry has, “definitely”, been located in Iraq, I’m informed by the military through their mouthpieces, the embedded media.>>>
Sorry, just pesticides dear.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030407/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_war_wmd
You may have to copy and paste the link.
Glad to see Moore is receiving recognition.
When are Americans going to realise that Capitalism is the worst system ever devised by man? It practices vast returns for the few at the total expense of everyone and everything else. Neither has it any relationship with free enterprise which is fair return for effort.
If you doubt, look at what GM has done to Flint, look at Enron and look at how the Bush entourage are busy giving our country to the corporations.
Unfortunately, many Americans fall for the propaganda because they are so under-educated and brainwashed from birth by advertising
Michael Moore’s documentay is full of serious inacuracies. before you praise him so much you should read this:
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
After reading this I changed from a Michael Moore fan into a non-fan. I don’t apreciate people screwing with me and trying to fool me with a bunch of camera tricks and out of sequence events. I get enough of that from the f—K—G Bush Administration. Like this war. It’s just one big lie after another. Oohh, we got chemicals. No , I guess just fertilizer. But it’s a chemical. and people just rememeber the first headline. I’m so sick of lies and Michael Moore is as full of shit as Bush. especially after his over-practiced little speech about “ficticious”
And another thing. This is supposed to be a documentary. The rules for a documentary in an Oscar are:
Rule Twelve
Special Rules for The Documentary Awards
I. Definition
1. An eligible documentary film is defined as a theatrically released NON-FICTION motion picture dealing creatively with cultural, artistic, historical, social, scientific, economic or other subjects. It may be photographed in actual occurrence, or may employ partial re-enactment, stock footage, stills, animation, stop-motion or other techniques, as long as the emphasis is on FACT AND NOT ON FICTION.
http://www.oscars.org/75academyawards/rules/rule12.html
Good God people let’s not put this guy on such a pedastal there’s plenty of sane arguments out there for not going to war and stuff. Not wise to have our spokesman be a con-artist lest we get pushed even further into the minority what with even liberals now wanting the war by 66%.
Jeff
Thank goodness someone had the wherewithal to standup and tell the truth. I speak of both Michael Moore as well as Joel Bleifuss.
Isn’t it strange that those who most vocally support the war are the same ones that act most like Saddam. Like DB who wrote, “MM should be taken out and shot.”
Sounds like DB supports totalitarianism over democracy !
mark, Michael riley and DB, sign up, head for Iraq, show us that you’re true Patriots.
I support our troups, bring them home NOW. We’re going to need them to protect us from the Ashcroft police.
I see some angry punters out there . I smell fear of Mike’s freedom of spech. I wonder what scares them about it? Anyways Mike, like that guy from Canada said mate, if those fools don’t want you we’ll have you!
Never ceases to amaze how these foolz llove to advertise their own stupidity.
The land of the free and the brave.
Hey right who wrote this joke.
long live michael Moore
Just a couple of short lines to Mr. Michael Moore.
You’ve Got A Friend
When you’re down and troubled
and you need a helping hand
and nothing, whoa nothing is going right.
Close your eyes and think of me
and soon I will be there
to brighten up even your darkest nights.
(with thanks to J Taylor)
More than that Mike, you’ve got thousands, nay millions of us around the world who admire and respect what your doing. Never let the demons rest, and in the words of Bono ‘don’t let the bastards bring you down.
Of course we all knew Saddam Hussein was scum - yes he had to be removed, yes the Iraqi DESERVE freedom, not a fictitious pawn of another nation (Any nation - The US, Russia, China, Saudi, etc)
Maybe the French and Russians and Chinese have alterior motives?(probably, they havent exactly covered themselves in glory in the past - Tianemen square, Chechnya/Afghanistan, The rainbow warrior flagship of greenpeace that the French secret service blew up, Algeria and on and on).
What about the injustices in Zimbabwe against WHITE(!) farmers? Will anyone ever really make an accounting for the butchery of Rwanda? What about the atrocity of SEPT. 11th (this war has little to do with that horror)?
Bloody sunday, Derry? And on and on. The saddest thing that I have seen since September 11th has been the rise of anti - americanism across the globe. As I say to those who voice anti - americanisms, visit Michaelmoore.com, read the onion, ignore Fox/Sky news and Rupert Murdoch (Who I believe took a comparison between him and Hiler as a compliment - as someone who’s grandfathers and granduncles fought off Nazism for nearly two years before America was literally bombed into the war thats a big fucking insult - but then again, murdoch believes he’s something he’s not. An Australian who became an American because he’s ashamed that he’s really an Irish Mick like myself) America is a great nation with some reprehensible leaders - Think Slick Willy, George - Dessert the Iraqi people to their death - Bush Snr., Richard ‘I’m not a crook, yes I am’ Nixon, Etc. But thats OK, most politicians are leeches and all nations get stuck with morons for leaders - hatred of Bush etc does not equal hatred for america.
Michael Moore, I salute you! Peace, light and prosperity to you and yours, always.
Mynah Byrd from Anytown USA: >>>Read it and weep, people. Now, get a job!!>>>
Read this and weep.
http://www.robert-fisk.com/articles216.htm
linda z on her way to work.
for jeff:
in my opinion it is the ideas you take out of Moore’s movie that’s important, the single fact which may be fiction, which may be true, is not important at all, I read the critics on your link, it’s like listening to childrens crying out because they hadn’t the gift they wanted, the audience must be mature and understand what is going on, have a stimulation to the brain and start to make their own ideas, that’s the spirit you must have towards that movie, who cares if Heston had the rifle in his hands on friday or thursday? the important idea is that less weapons circulate, less killing will be counted
I guess people down there are used to be taken around by the hand because just unable to build up their own ideas
beign guided by the hand of Bush is the worst thing to do
wake up please use the brain, your brain, get ideas from everywhere build up your coscience with culture and open mind
it’s sensless to look for the little mistakes, you will never have any clear picture
Hope you had a good day at work, Linda
Was just reading through some of Robert Fisk’s previous work. I knew the Iraqi information minister couldn’t have thought up all that dazzling dialog on his own. Now I know…..He had a speech writer.
George Bush has one too, I know.
I feel horrible about civilian casualties, especially children, don’t get me wrong. I have a five year old. But to compare the hundreds of unintended deaths and injuries to the hundreds of thousands of deaths, tortures, and rapes directed by Saddam Hussein, is intellectually silly.
Mynah
Yes Mark, you are absolutely right - we are a democracy that speaks with our wallets. Speaking of “fucks” - fat, dumb, or otherwise - too bad YOU didn’t do your research before making your stupid comments:
Attendance at “Bowling for Columbine” was up 110% after the AA (source: Daily Variety/BoxOfficeMojo.com). It is now the longest-running consecutive commercial release in America.
April 6 “Stupid White Men” shot back to #1 on the New York Times bestseller list.
Michael Moore has obtained funding for his next documentary, and has been offered a slot back on TV to do an updated version of “TV Nation”/ “The Awful Truth.”
DEMOCRACY SPEAKS! Listen up, Mark.
Yes Mark, you are absolutely right - we are a democracy that speaks with our wallets. Too bad YOU didn’t do your research before making your stupid comments:
Attendance at “Bowling for Columbine” was up 110% after the AA (source: Daily Variety/BoxOfficeMojo.com). It is now the longest-running consecutive commercial release in America.
April 6 “Stupid White Men” shot back to #1 on the New York Times bestseller list.
Michael Moore has obtained funding for his next documentary, and has been offered a slot back on TV to do an updated version of “TV Nation”/ “The Awful Truth.”
DEMOCRACY SPEAKS! Listen up, Mark.
“I don’t know why people are surprised that France won’t help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn’t help us get the Germans out of France!”
—-Jay Leno
“The last time the French asked for ‘more proof’ it came marching into Paris under a German flag.”
—David Letterman
“The only time France wants us to go to war is when the German Army is sitting in Paris sipping coffee.”
—- Regis Philbin
“I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me.”
—- General George S. Patton
“I just love the French. They taste like chicken!”
——Hannibal Lecter
its curious to see the conservative half (well, just a bit less than half, but you know what happens in florida votings…) to critisize Moore speech, but not talking about his FILM. See it first and then you could speak about him. (BTW: Why is wrong that S.Sarandon,S.Penn or M moore talk about politics but its right for A.Swachzenegger or B Willis (who arnt american)to do? Or the -non politized- (^_^) charlton heston to do so? Celebrities can only speak if they are republicans?
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/09/sprj.irq.secret.jail.ap/index.html
A country cannot simultaneously prepare and prevent war.
-albert einstein
One is left with the horrible feeling now that war settles nothing; that to win a war is as disastrous as to lose one.
Agatha Christie
Never has there been a good war or a bad peace
- Benjamin Franklin
You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake.
Jeannette Rankin (1880 - 1973)
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
- Dwight D. Eisenhower
What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?
Mahatma Gandhi
Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime.
- Ernest Hemingway
Vietnam was the first war ever fought without any censorship. Without censorship, things can get terribly confused in the public mind.
- General William Westmoreland
Naturally, the common people don’t want war ... but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.
- Hermann Goering (nazi leader for propaganda)
I like to believe that people in the long run are going to do more to promote peace than our governments. Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it.
Dwight D. Eisenhower (1890 - 1969)
Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.
Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)
“My country, right or wrong,” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother, drunk or sober.”
G. K. Chesterton (1874 - 1936)
Hey all you right-wing christian fascists,
Mike Moore is totally right – I’m proud of him. The problem is, that most of you guys don’t know SHIT about what democracy is about. Freedom of speech? Yeah, as long as you speak MY opinion. Democracy? Sure - you have two political parties, both share the same views. And the Media are either controlled or afraid. “Freedom & Democracy” - my ass! Why bring those things to Iraq - try to get them for yourselves first, guys!
In Germany we have 4 major parties, and their individual positions are really different from each other. On top of that there are two dozens of irrelevant mini-parties. Virtually everybody else in Europe is not too different from that.
The problem with all you “shoot MM” characters is, you don’t have enough intellectual skill to even understand what’s going on in their own country. We already had a fascist dictatorship - we know how that works. Either Americans stand up and get control over their country back NOW, or that’s it for freedom in the US.
Some 12 months ago, we considered America to be our friend and partner - now we and everybody else on this planet consider the US to be the greatest threat to us all. Well done, Governor Bush, that’s the way of making your country a safe place!
It’s not only the question if America will go on bullying the 3rd world - with that disastrous economical and social policies of dubya’s gang going on, how long will it take until the majority of Americans will themselves live under 3rd world conditions? And how do Americans, holding millions of automatic weapons in their homes, usually deal with problems? No idea? Well, watch “Bowling…”. I hope you rednecks like the idea of having a full grown war in your own country, not only on CNN, because you’ll quite probably have one within the next 10 years.
By the way - after cheating his way to power while not being the ruling party, does anyone really expect the republicans to play fair now that they can control the next election from within? Funny - Hitler was legally elected (fact - read an history book) Dubya wasn’t. HA HA.
Well then, enjoy life, go to church and support your troops, lynch some Negroes, toast some criminals, clean your guns and keep on teaching the world about “FREEDOM”, “DEMOCRACY” and “HUMAN RIGHTS”.
Long Island, April 6, 2003…I had to listen to one of the cable all-news, (all-lies), corporate outlets in a doctor’s office bedecked with flags, bunting, and jingoistic slogans, whose staff wore those, don’t-shoot-or-imprison-me-‘cause-I-got-a-flag on-my-collar-so-you-can see-I’m-with-you-pins. Nauseated, I just went up and shut the TV off. What a rage the room full of people directed at me, whew! Threats, swearing…Then, some huge goon walked up to me. Puffing up his chest, he tried to knock me down with his bulk. I smiled, asking him what size bra he wore. He screamed, “you fuckin’ commie Sadamm suckin’ faggot. If you don’t like it, get the fuck out of here.” To which I replied, “Hey, nice come-back, but if you don’t stop touching me, I’ll show you just how peaceful an real, American-loving pacifist can be”, in a calm, gentle tone. My wife had just broken her wrist because some corporate, “untouchable”, landlords wouldn’t spend a few bucks to fix their neglected sidewalk over which she tripped and nearly broke her skull, (if not for having cushioned the fall with her now broken wrist)...well, she tried pulling me away. But I was super-adrenalized and couldn’t even feel her concerned tug. We eyeballed each other for a few super-tension-filled seconds, this android-thug and I. “Can’t you think of something to say? Have you forgotten what Bill Riley said about vile, un-Americans like me?”, I queried. “I’ll meet you outside, you freak”, he replied. The whole while there was a deafening hush in that waiting room. Some of the doctors came over for a look-see. I overheard one say, “call the cops”. Though amazed at my sudden brass, I was more surprised by the lack of anxiety I felt. When we exited, he goon wasn’t there, but the parking lot was crammed with patrol cars, black vans, and the tense milling about of, “peace-officers, (legal goons), was palpable. Walking stratight through them to our car,I sweetly smiled, pardoned myself, asking one to please let my wife through-which he did. We got into the car. Through my rear-view mirror, I noticed many scribbling down my plate number. I saluted them as we drove by and asked one, “did you see…(here I gave him the goon’s description), he was supposed to meet me outside. Guess he must have forgotten, eh”? 2003…America, Quo Vadis?
Ed from Sydney: Bitch about America all you want, but the fact remains that the only reason your country exists is that the British dumped the dregs of their society on that island. A proud history you have, descending from convicts.
Dom, you are such a fucking pussy. I’ve never heard a grown man bitch so much. “Oh poor me, I’m everybody’s victim. My slut wife busted her ass because the ‘untouchable’ landlord didn’t fix the ‘broken sidewalk.’ All the media are lying to me. I’m so disenfranchised. When is America going to look out for me?” You are pathetic.
Red:
Did you think the same about Saddam before 9/11? Just curious
dom from long island -
I concur with Dom Sucks - you ARE an anti-American, agenda-of-rage freak show. Sit down, shut up, and wait for your next handout, fool.
Go in these Times! Go Micheal!
We need liberal media ‘cause our “liberal” media is conservative. Nice jobs, keep up the good work.
Mynah Byrd from Anytown, USA responding to my link to Robert Fisk
(continued)
The Khartoum government, in partnership with international oil companies, is reaping large and growing profits from the oil fields. Spencer Bachus of Alabama, a conservative Republican, came up with the only realistic way to convince the National Islamic Front to end slavery. He introduced a bill in the Senate which would have prohibited foreign companies from raising capital in the United States
Hey, NAMELESS-you’re a dime a dozen lump of hopeless shit. On another note…All anyone has to do is pretend he or she is a lawyer. If you know the person in the box has lied and now states something he expects everyone to believe, the lawyer will ask, “you’ve lied before in your testifmony…how can we know you’re telling the truth now?” The job of politicians is to lie, cheat, take bribes, sell to the highest bidder for votes…so how can we possibly believe ANYTHING they disseminate to the media, how can we trust them and why should we when our history is replete with facts about people continually being burned by politicians’ lies? It comes down to WANTING to believe this or the other hack in office. On top of that, we all know that the more secrets they keep from us, the more suspect they become. We the people have to suffer ALL the consequences of their decisions and therefore have the ABSOLUTE right to know. Indeed, whatever any taxpayer-funded material is generated BECOMES OURS because WE paid for it-whether or not WE wanted it. And that’s another problem. Who gives them the right to use OUR money in anyway THEY see fit, and usually to our detriment? Look at the condition of our infrastructure. See the prices of food, housing, education, health services, or anything else continue to rise unchecked. See our taxes going up, up, up and being used as corporate welfare or be funneled into the military and penal systems. What will it take some people to just look at their own local state of affairs and decide for themselves? If we’d just compare whether we’re in better or worse shape now than 3 years ago, 20, 30 years ago…or when our parents were able to provide without needing at least two income flows to make ends meet-only one answer would be possible. If you’re honest with yourself the only answer is NO WAY am I or my family remotely well off compared to the past. Where have all our taxes, fees, surcharges, bridge tolls, etc., etc., ad nauseum gone? Who has them? Conservatives blame Liberals and vice-versa. One group wants to invest in the DEATH MACHINE, the latter in PEOPLE. Use your own noggin-YOU understand your situation. Those who you elect aren’t actually going through the crap WE do daily. They’re so far removed from our problems that they might as well be aliens from another galaxy for all they know or care about our daily struggles to merely survive. This is where it’s at, folks. Wake up!
Poor Dom. It’s tough living in the US isn’t it? You don’t want to pay taxes to the penal system, the police, or the military, but you expect to be protected by all three. A little bent out of shape because the government hasn’t solved all your problems, sport? Well keep sulking, entertaining far-fetched conspiracy theories, and ranting on the computer if it makes you feel any better. You are one sad case.
FOR THOSE WHOSE AWARENESS ALLOWS THEM TO TRUST THEIR OWN PERCEPTIONS RATHER THAN SELF-SERVING LIES SPOON-FED THEM BY THEIR SLAVEMASTERS WHO UNBEKNOWNST TO THEM HAVE BRAINWASHED AND CONDITIONED THEM TO ACCEPT WHAT THEY’RE TOLD THEY MUST:
http://theage.com.au/articles; http://afternet.org/story; http://ratical.com; http://constitution.org; http://nationmakers.com; http://copi.com/books; http://webactive.com; http://greenpeace.org; http://fsrm.com; http://copvcia.com; http://globalvisionforpeace.org; http://dtic.mil/doctrine/jet/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf; http://infowars.com/resources.html#LINKS IF NOTHING ELSE, YOU’LL AT LEAST GET SOME IN DEPTH, INDEPENDENT MEDIA COVERAGE INSTEAD OF THE SYCOPHANTIC DRONE OF TELEVISION AND PRINT CO-OPTED CENSORED FOLDEROL.
So, you read all the “pussy”, “you’re anti-american”, you “hate your country”, “you bitch and moan” remarks by those who disagree with the liberal stance on this war and then some of them say I am abusive?
I think calling someone anti-American or other ABUSIVE is unimaginative parroting of Bush rhetoric.
I’m glad I have a mind of my own and can make my own conclusions.
Thanks Michael Moore. I have dreamt of a making film like yours that gives us the real world just not what ‘they’ want us to see. There are so many untold truths still needing to be aired. I hope other film makers take your lead and and show the truth in their films too. Then people wouldn’t be so concerned about the evil deeds of Saddam Hussein because the number of people he has impinged apon are very few compared to the numbers the USA/UK Coalition has interferred with, hurt, maimed or killed in recent history.
Linda,
An amendment would have put an end to slavery in Sudan? An amendment? How bout a war? That’s what ended slavery in this country. Remember? But I guess we couldn’t do that because war is so immoral. Better we have an amendment. Can’t have any of those civilian casualties. Even if two million Christians have been killed and thousands of girls and women have been raped.
Twelve years of economic sanctions wouldn’t bring around ol Saddam. But he found ways around them. Get a load of those palaces? The thugs in Sudan are cut from the same cloth. They be laughing their asses off when they they hear amendments and peace acts have been passed against them. ooooo…an amendment.
I’‘m scaaaaarrrrrred. Oooooo…..a peace act.
What really scares them now is that they know there’s a new sherrif in town. And you think he doesn’t care about the Iraqi people? Well I think he does, but he cares first about yours and my security. You think he’s in it for the bucks? Does he really strike you as the money-hungry type what with his modest little ranch in Crawford? Does he want to impress his “oil buddies”?
He wants the United States to benefit economically? Is that what you’re saying? If he doesn’t care about the Iraqi people and Saddam and his healthy young sons (which are/were even more evil than he is) are no security threat to us or his neighbors, then why didn’t Bush just lobby for the end of sanctions. That would have opened up more oil, lowered the price, and we would would have had an economic boom. Why did we spend untold billions to fight the war and commit more billions to rebuild Iraq if his concern is purely economical? I’m sure you have a logical explanation.
This world like it or not always has been and always will be ruled by the aggressive use of force. I for one am glad America has shown after a long slumber that it’s not afraid to use it.
Mynah
Mynah Byrd,
I believe it’s that kind of thinking that brought 9/11 about.
And, of course, Bush and his buddies knew and had this thing in the works all along. If you don’t believe me, there’s tons and tons of articles, NY Times, BBC, Reuters that point this out, the trail, the evidence, the players. Even Republican senators.
To all of you who scream this down, it’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s the truth. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil is how censorship has covered it up.
This war, like Panama, was an immoral act by a supposedly god-fearing nation. Every religious leader condemned it.
There is no evidence of a Saddam-Al Qaeda link. See: http://politics.guardian.co.uk/attacks/story/0,1320,885288,00.html
Regime change and pre-emptive attacks are illegal in international law. See: http://www.robincmiller.com/iraq6-fr.htm http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forum/forumnew98.php Under international law every nation has the right to self-determination, sovereignty and territorial integrity. The UN and its charter were founded to prevent colonial and world wars so that powerful nations would not decide to attack, overthrow and occupy weaker nations however distasteful those regimes. Part of self-determination is deciding on the form of government. There is no international law that says every country must be a democracy. No country has the right to determine the form of government of any other country regardless of the nature of the regime. That is clear in international law. It is a governance problem for the Iraqi people to determine their political leadership and form of government even if they have to have a civil war to do so. Just like how we do not like the fact that criminals have constitutional and due process rights, but it would be worse if the government could arbitrarily arrest, imprison and invade citizens’ privacy.
The U.S. is directly responsible for the oppression of the Iraqi people as we facilitated the rise to power of Saddam Hussein and the Ba’ath Party in 1963 when they overthrew General Qassem because he nationalized Iraq’s oil industry. See University of Denver, Colorardo Political Science Professor Wadi Muhaisen’s 11/22/02 Rocky Mountain News article, “America’s Shameful Mideast History”: http://www.endthewar.org/frontps/Op-eds/shameful.htm The U.S. then provided Saddam Hussein with the chemical and biological weapons technology used against the Kurds and Iranians as payback against the Ayatollah Khomeini for overthrowing the Shah of Iran and taking the U.S. embassy hostages in 1979. The U.S. also does not care about extending democracy in the Arab world. Why are we not advocating regime change and democracy for the brutal dictatorships in Saudi Arabia (15 out 19 of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis but no Iraqis and the Wahabi tribe in Saudi Arabia is the biggest sponsor of Al Qaeda) and Egypt not to mention the plutocratic monarchies in the rest of the Arab world such as Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, etc.? Because they provide us cheap oil.
The anti-war protesters and peace activists do have a strategy to defeat terrorism besides war and violence by treating terrorist acts as crimes against humanity and pursuing internationally coordinated intelligence and criminal extradition and prosecution to uncover, capture and imprison terrorist cell members hiding in over 60 countries. See Hampshire College political science professor Michael Klare’s articles, “How to Defeat Bin Laden,” and “So, What’s the Answer?”: http://dir.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/13/justice/index.html http://www.progressive.org/0901/klar1101.html
Some Iraqis are celebrating. TV news (ABC Nightline) today is also reporting that fighting continues in other parts of Baghdad and throughout Iraq. We don’t know if it is a majority or minority who feel liberated or occupied. The key question is whether or not guerrilla warfare will continue and, if so, for how long. Even President Bush and Vice President Cheney warn that the war is not over yet. The leaders of the Shiite Muslim majority are already boycotting the U.S. talks for the Iraq occupation government and calling for immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. See: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030409/wl_nm/iraq_sciri_dc_1 Notice how President Bush is not calling for immediate elections not even within two years.
U.S.-sponsored Iraqi exile leaders are now calling for the denationalization of Iraqi oil industry and selling it to foreign investors. See: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20030405/bs_afp/iraq_war_opposition_oil_030405214324 This war has always really been about oil. See Hampshire College Political Science Professor Michael Klare’s article “Oiling the Wheels of War”: http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20021007&s=klare This is why the U.S. wants to cancel the Russian, French and Chinese contracts with Iraq to develop the oil reserves and also does not want the UN to manage the oil-for-food program any longer. See: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.hts/business/1856839 So much for the Oil being the wealth of the Iraqi “people.” So much for bringing “democracy” to the Iraqi people.
Islamic fundamentalists will probably have a better chance at getting elected after the “interim” occupation government actually allows the Iraqi people to vote whenever that may be, especially if the oil wells and reserves get sold to foreign investors.
We also will see in the future whether or not terrorist attacks will increase here and abroad over the rising Anti-American hatred in the Arab world due to the Iraq war.
On the challenges of humanitarian assistance and looting and the corresponding impact on the Iraqi people’s support for our “liberation,” see New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman’s 4/9/03 article, “Hold Your Applause”:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/09/opinion/09FRIE.html
YOU GO MIKE!
MICHAEL MOORE IN 2004!!!
Neil says:
And, of course, Bush and his buddies knew and had this thing in the works all along. If you don’t believe me, there’s tons and tons of articles, NY Times, BBC, Reuters that point this out, the trail, the evidence, the players. Even Republican senators.
There are plenty of articles written that state just the opposite as well. Why are your sources of information right & others are wrong? How do you know who’s right? I mean let’s pick a side & then find lots of well written articles by people who believe like me & that’ll make me right?
Give me a break!
It s funny to see that most people that attack M Moore, just say stuff about his looks, his talents; but not one reasonable argument about the content of what he has to say. The people who are supporting this war are usually of aggressive speach, hiding behind words like: Patriot, comunism, dictatorship; or whatever else they read in mainstream papers. It s quite sad, but as Einstein said: Ignorance is the only thing that is surely endless.
Thank God for all the thinking, cultured American people around, as for those will depend the peace around the world.
Michael Moore has all my respect for being brave when so many are cowards.
Decapitation Attack On Peace Movement Succeeds
(2003-03-23)—U.S. officials don’t know when, or how it happened, but intelligence in the field indicates that an apparent ‘decapitation attack’ on the peace movement succeeded.
“The anti-Bush protestors are wandering about in clusters, shouting a variety of unrelated messages,” said an unnamed Pentagon source. “It’s clear that there is no cohesive leadership. The protestors look bedraggled and confused. We don’t know when the decapitation attack happened, or who did it. Frankly, we’ve just been ignoring them and moving on to our objectives.”
A spokesman for protestors in San Francisco rejected the Pentagon assertion.
“We’re focused and determined to stop this war for oil and let the Iraqi people run their own democracy,” the spokesman said. “And we must seek justice for gays and do a re-count of the 2000 presidential election ballots and let women choose abortions and Bush is worse than Saddam and we still haven’t captured bin Laden and what about North Korean nukes and world opinion is against us and get Israel out of Palestine and force the U.S. to obey Jacques Chirac and Kofi Annan, and…did I leave anything out? But anyway, that’s our purpose and we will never waver…and, remember, all these protests are spontaneous. The next one is scheduled for tomorrow night at seven.”
So there you have it. Thousands of Iraqi citizens joyously celebrating the collapse of Saddam’s regime in the heart of Baghdad caught on video in six or seven dozen instances. Small Iraqi children kissing American soldiers and Marines on the cheek. Enraptured Iraqi women yelling, “Thank you, George Bush, thank you!!!!”
But wait! Those images came from MSNBC and CNN. It’s all a fabrication! The whole thing was staged! The REAL truth is that our guys are bogged down in southern Iraq, having not advanced past the Kuwaiti border more than 3 miles. In fact, the Iraqi regime is still in control of both the airport and the capitol. Over 10,000 American soldiers have been killed. And even though the American advance was stalled at the Kuwaiti border, 350,000 Baghdad residents have been killed in bombing raids.
It’s only true of it comes from the web links that you intellectual spark-plugs have been so proudly sharing with all of us conservative morons?
Who here wants to be the first one to tell that little kid who kissed one of our guys on the cheek that this war was about oil? Oh, sorry, forgot - that image was manufactured by big bad George Bush’s corporate propoganda machine.
3 weeks to end 3 decades of rape, murder, and torture without having to use 60 infantry divisions and 30,000 four-engine bombers. Not too shabby….
While you poster children for anger management are scurrying around in the darkness of the dead regime that you championed, searching for your next current event to bitch about and blame on our government, keep this phrase in mind: “offering comfort and aid to the enemy is known as ______”
You are all geniuses, you can fill in the blank.
e americans think that they are so democartic, example citizens of the free world, that they want to shoot the guy who is standing agains t the government. And I wonder if there is a democartic way of shooting another person? And one other thing I would like to add, if the rest of the world, everyone else but you believed that one plus one is three, just the sheer number of “believers” doesn’t make you wrong. Mr Moore, I salute you!
If uniformity of thought is democracy, then the most democratic regime in the world collapsed more than ten years ago with the socialist party of Ethiopia, my country. My country was so “democratic”, everybody thought the same, at least they showed it that way, because any misalignment with the ideals of the government will result in immediate imprisonment, torture, and execution. Never thought for a day this was the american dream, as some of the people posting messages here seem to portray it. Some Americans think that they are so democartic, example citizens of the free world, that they want to shoot the guy who is standing agains t the government. And I wonder if there is a democartic way of shooting another person? And one other thing I would like to add, if the rest of the world, everyone else but you believed that one plus one is three, just the sheer number of “believers” doesn’t make you wrong. Mr Moore, I salute you!
Does anyone remember George Orwell’s 1984? The three slogans from the “minstry of thought” were
1. War is peace
2. Freedom is slavery
3. Ignorance is strength
so here is the detail of the three rules under “operation liberate iraq”
1. To bring peace to the iraq people, we raise a war against them
2. We have conquered iraq, so that we will make them free
3. Reporters always report almost the same story, and all the ones that report different story will be stopped by accidental friendly fires, such as the three reporters killed by the US troops some days ago. And this will lead to a high level of ignorance of our nations’ citizens, whose support for us will increase and strengthen our power.
I am glad I found this forum. It is very informative. You just have to overlook the insults etc. I like people who have a point and say it. Keep on exchanging your ideas
There is so much information on these posts. It just seems odd how people keep on believing what they want, the same thing over and over. No matter what else is stated. Or other people have said or proofed.
But that was Tuesday. On Wednesday, Baghdad fell, and thrilled, free Iraqis filled the streets. If the “entire world” is to condemn the war in Iraq, it appears they will have to explain their condemnation to the Iraqi’s, too.
A shadow lifts
Celebrations in Iraq raise curtain on viciousness of Saddam’s cadre of thugs
Apr. 10, 2003 12:00 AM
It is a pity President Bush and his eloquent partner in liberation, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, did not base their call for war against Iraq simply and solely on the principle of freedom from wicked oppression.
The streets of Baghdad filled Wednesday with evidence that a war to end Saddam Hussein’s cruelty would have justified the Iraqi invasion all by itself. Thousands of Iraqis, sensing the thug really was gone at last, exulted in the streets.
They tore down statues of Saddam, dragging the severed head of one statue for all to see, with joyous children riding on top. Women held up their babies so that U.S. soldiers riding by on tanks could kiss them.
Comparisons with the fall of communism in Berlin in 1991 and the liberation of Paris from the Nazis in 1944 seem apt. The joy of freedom rings in Baghdad today, just as it did in those other great cities in years gone by.
In several Iraqi cities, residents took British and American soldiers to see the tyrant’s torture chambers. The evidence of Saddam’s sadism is proliferating.
In Basra, Iraqis - one of whom showed journalists his mangled ears as evidence - described the horror of a white stone torture chamber known as the “White Lion.” There, Saddam’s secret police used electrocutions, immersion in baths of chemicals and ripping out of fingernails and toenails to intimidate the population.
Small wonder Iraqis are so thrilled today. Records of torture and intimidation have been found at the White Lion site, included photographs of people who appear to have been burned alive. The records, said a U.S. soldier, appeared to be very detailed.
“It looks a bit like Nazi Germany to me,” said a Marine captain.
But while the war may be over, fighting goes on. Desperate bands of Baath Party loyalists and other fanatics continue to roam Baghdad, indiscriminately firing on celebrating Iraqis and U.S. soldiers alike. And northern Iraqi cities, including Saddam’s stronghold Tikrit, have yet to see liberation.
Also, the search must continue for the weapons of mass destruction that prompted the war in Iraq in the first place. There are reports now that Saddam may have stashed his caches of VX gas, sarin, mustard gas and other weapons in the deserts of western Iraq.
Bush must deal now with a growing international call for United Nations weapons inspectors to be re-introduced into Iraq to help find them.
And, of course, the coalition must yet find either Saddam or what’s left of him. The Iraqi landscape clearly is becoming more complicated.
But the Iraqi people are making things as complicated for critics of the war as its resolution is for Bush and Blair.
In Vancouver, British Columbia, inveterate peace activist Jane Fonda told her Canadian audience on Tuesday that “I think the entire world is going to be united against us” over the Iraqi war.
But that was Tuesday. On Wednesday, Baghdad fell, and thrilled, free Iraqis filled the streets. If the “entire world” is to condemn the war in Iraq, it appears they will have to explain their condemnation to the Iraqis, too.
Hmmmmm,
My level of thinking and intelligence is very high. I don’t know why I waste my time with people who come onto a liberal forum and snear at us, call us names, gloat, nyah, nyah, nyah.
It points out, in my view, the uncompassionate side that the right-wing tends to have. The “fuck you I have mine—go get your own” view that many feel is the thinking of the “moral” majority.
If you believe everything you see on television as fact, such as this dancing in the streets BS the news is covering, and you don’t look at other sources, there’s no point in arguing with you.
All of you, like Conservative D, and all of those who don’t have the balls to put your real name or e-mail addresses on here and then take potshots at the rest of us, are just victims to the propaganda Bush is spreading. If you actually believe the BS his administration says about this war, then God help this country.
Oh, and Conservative D, if any Iraqi was bleeding in front of me, you bet your ass I’d give him aid and comfort.
I do what Jesus would do, and NONE of you seem to share that if you support murder by a greedy administration. Shame on you. If you believe God is a vengeful God, then you’ll have to live with the fact you supported greed over human lives.
Neil,
Maybe some of us prefer not to give our real names on this site because you’ve already threatened two people with bodily harm who have disagreed with and/or insulted you (which is a federal offense, there, big guy). Is that what you were talking about when you said you would do what Jesus would do? Is that the compassion of the left-wing?
And you would help a wounded Iraqi? Good for you. How about helping a wounded 18 year old American soldier crying for his mother? Oh, right - he doesn’t get any compassion or help because he’s a murderer. Got it.
Your comments are so full of double-standards and you don’t even see it. So sad.
Sorry for intruding on your “liberal forum.” Last time I checked it was a free country (paid for with the lives of American boys who don’t deserve your “compassion”).
I very much like Mr. Moore. I like his reasoning, his honesty, his willingness to speak out. He is a rare duck this Mr. Moore.
America needs more like him.
Thank you Mr. Moore. Please keep up the good work. I am looking forward to your new movie.
I salute you!!
As a founder of America stated. “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel” It is obvious that those who want to silence Michael Moore don’t belong in America because American freedom allows us to say any thing we want to, unlike Iran, IRAQ, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Peoples Republic of China etc. If you want silence Michael Moore go to the aformentioned countries where you can silence unloved speech. America Love it or leave it!!!!!!
Top Ten Things Iraq’s Information Minister Has To Say About The War
10. “We’re pulling down the statues of Saddam to have them cleaned”
9. “Don’t believe that stuff you see on CNN…or NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox or MSNBC”
8. “If you ask me who the winner is, it depends on what your definition of ‘is’ is”
7. “Iraqi television is off the air because we didn’t want you to have to sit through ‘Becker’”
6. “Do you know of any job openings for a lying weasel?”
5. “Wolf Blitzer and I are engaged”
4. “Iraqis are in the streets celebrating Cher’s 40 fabulous years in show business”
3. “Incoming!”
2. “Saddam’s not dead—he’s just out with a case of the shingles”
1. “War? What war?”
Posted on Thu, Apr. 10, 2003
France’s Chirac Hails Fall of Saddam
Associated Press
PARIS - France on Thursday hailed the fall of Saddam Hussein, but President Jacques Chirac added that full sovereignty must be returned to Iraq as soon as possible and “with the legitimacy of the United Nations.”
“It is now necessary to create the conditions which will give the Iraqi people its dignity in newfound freedom,” a statement from the French president’s office said.
The most urgent matter at hand is to secure the country so humanitarian aid can get through, it added.
France, which led the effort to avoid war by the U.S.-led coalition, has said it considers the American and British troops on the ground to be the best way to secure Iraq. However, it wants a central role for the United Nations in the process of reconstruction.
“As soon as possible, after the necessary phase of securing (the country), Iraq must return to its full sovereignty in a stabilized region with the legitimacy of the United Nations,” the president’s office said.
President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair agreed over the weekend that the United Nations should have a “vital role” in rebuilding Iraq. However, no one has clearly defined what that means.
“We are at a decisive moment in the history of Iraq,” French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin said, adding that with the fall of Saddam “a somber page is turning.”
“Together, we must build peace in Iraq, and for France that means a central role for the United Nations,” the minister’s statement said.
He added that peace in the Middle East region must also be pursued, “through a determined
search to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.”
Germany Targets Islamic Group in Nationwide Raid
Thu April 10, 2003 09:08 AM ET
BERLIN (Reuters) - German police raided more than 80 buildings across the country in a nationwide crackdown on suspected members of a banned Islamic group on Thursday, seizing computers, bank account details and documents.
The raids in 11 states across the country began at 6 a.m., the Interior Ministry said in a statement. It did not say whether there were any arrests.
Germany banned the 50-year-old Islamist Hizb ut-Tahrir organization in January, accusing it of promoting anti-Jewish sentiment in universities and elsewhere. It was the third such group to be banned in Germany under anti-terror legislation adopted after the September 11 attacks on U.S. cities.
“Today’s measures are a clear warning to everyone that we will act against violent propaganda and anti-Semitic agitation… This organization wishes to sow hate and violence,” said Interior Minister Otto Schily who ordered the raid.
Schily has said the organization denies the right of Israel to exist and promotes the use of violence, including the killing of Jews and their expulsion from Israel.
He has said the organization was particularly active on university campuses and noted that three of the September 11 hijackers had been part of an Islamic group active at Hamburg university, where they had studied.
Hizb ut-Tahrir became well known in Germany after staging a rally at Berlin’s Technical University in October at which the main speaker made anti-American comments. Members of Germany’s extreme right-wing NPD were also in attendance.
The ban in January coincided with police raids on more than 25 buildings in five federal states, including Berlin.
Hizb ut-Tahrir (Party of Liberation) was founded in 1953 in Jerusalem by Taqiuddin al-Nabhani and wants a return to the Islamic Caliphate that prevailed during the early rise of Islam.
Its Web site (www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org) says it seeks to replace secular leaders in Arab and Muslim countries with Islamic governments, but says it pursues peaceful methods.
Twenty-five people, including three Britons, are currently on trial in Cairo accused of trying to overthrow the Egyptian government and of spreading propaganda for the Hizb ut-Tahrir, which is banned in Egypt but not in Britain.
The other groups that have been banned in Germany are the Palestinian Al-Aqsa charity and the Kalifatsstaat (Caliphate State).
Posting Security