In the wake of the 1967 Israeli-Arab war, eight Arab heads of state met in Khartoum, Sudan, to decide how to react to their humiliating defeat. The leaders’ message was straightforward: There would be no peace with Israel, no recognition of and no negotiations with the Jewish state. Following the summit, most Arab countries adopted the three no approach as their… return to article
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Reader Comments (67)Page 1 of 1 pagesCareful! The Saudi govt says a just settlement to the refugee problem but I believe for them that means that all descendents have the right to return to what is now Israel—and of course the demographics would destroy Israel. Second, the Saudi gov is hardly the Arab League—has the Arab League announced terms?
Third: so long as Hamas runs the Palestinians, and continue to announce there will be no peace with Israel, there is not going to be a settlement.
The leftistsw (sorry about that, paper) have always dreamt that the Arab s could be brought around to peace but those on the right have seen historically that that has not been the case.
Let there be an annoucement by Hamas that there will be no acts of terror and that they will seek a peaceful solution and recognize the right for Israel to exist. Let Hezbullah in Lebanon also state this. And then let us judge Israel’s response.
Posted by postroad on Apr 17, 2007 at 12:12 PM ” Israel should embrace this opportunity with open arms since peace is indeed the only strategic option. It is high time to seize the day. ”
I agree. Seize the day, fire the tanks up and head east . Drive every living thing from the West Bank into Jordan. Shut down Gaza, hang the leaders of hamas, and deport the “refugees” to Egypt. Flatten southern Lebanon, hang Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah from any available tree, pave it over, and use it for overflow parking. Drive from the Golan Heights into Damascus following a rolling artillery barrage. Test a nuclear device on Riyadh. No surrender. No land for whining losers. No peace for terrorists. No peace for haji.
Posted by texasindependent on Apr 17, 2007 at 2:03 PM When you have been invaded and with the desire to eliminate your country any number of times, if you then seize land in repelling attackers—they were not Palestinains by the way—then you do not simply give back the land and call it quits till the next attack. Israel has shown no signs of wanting to destroy its neighbors. But you begin to negotiate with a group that suggests that it no longer seeks your destruction. This has not happened as yet. The comment is very cute (aboive) but totally meaningless except for someone asture person miles from the suicide bombers.
Posted by postroad on Apr 17, 2007 at 2:51 PM Ignore the rantings of the two Israeli State apologists and anti-Arab racists above. Israel literally created both Hamas and Hezbollah. The
first as an alternative to the secular PLO in the late 70s and the second through their barbaric invasion and occupation of Lebanon in 1982. Israel has never wanted peace, see The Iron Wall by Avi Schlaim, an
israeli historian, for the definitive view of the relations between Israel and the Arab States. Then see Alfred M. Lilienthal’s The Zionist Connection for the overall view including the Palestinians. The book
by the left Zionist Noam Chomsky, The Fateful Triangle: The US, Israel
and The Palestinians, rev ed, 2000, is excellent on the actual history.
There were no suicide bombers until the last few years, the Israeli Occupation has been going for FORTY years in the West Bank, East Jerusalem, the Golan Heights and still in Gaza. We negotiated with North Vietnam which never recognized South Vietnam, the French negotiated with the FLN which never recognized their rights in Algeria,
israel has never recognized the rights of the Palestinians to their own state which includes Israel where 80% of them are from and which the UN conditions for recognizing Israel in 1948 mandated the right of return. Why should Israel have any RIGHT to “exist” when its very existence is as a direct result of the destruction of the Palestinians
right to exist. And why demand the Palestinians endorse that principle in advance of final negotiations. Israel is the leading terrorist state in the world outside of the USA. They have killed hundreds of thousands of Arabs and displaced over two million Arabs since 1947-48. Israel came into existence by the destruction of over 400 arab villages and towns, see What Price Israel ? by Alfred Lilienthal, see The Question of
Palestine by Edward Said. Just for starters. By the way, TexASS’s call for total ethnic cleansing and genocide will NOT be condemned by the lowlife JOOOOOOOO scum here like Chicago Cabbie or Natalie or
Wicky Woo. Next time these swine start their “holocaust” call them on this.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 17, 2007 at 4:31 PM 2 millions? wow! 750 thousand refugees is the more nearly accurate figure of those that had lived in the land that is now Israel and fled. In fact, one million arabs by choice now live in Israel. and the Arabs? 800 thousand Jews kicked out of homes in arab lands.
Citing Said (lets have one big state) or others hardly is convincing as authorities. The state of Israel was a result of the Briish Madate (prior to that the Ottoman empire) and sanctioned by the UN. Legal.
I am not going to be impressed by writings of people because they might be Jewish. As for “authoritiesw,” the distinguised M. Oren, very sympathetic to the Palestinians had, in time, changed his view and recognized the desire to extincquish Israel.As for Hamas etc and its origins: what was in the past does not justify what is in the present. America was founded on the acceptance of slavery but does that mean we should accept it today?
don’t bother answering if you must resort to name calling.
Posted by postroad on Apr 17, 2007 at 5:46 PM I think I’ll make the decision to respond whether you approve or not.
750,000 is the common figure given for 1948, actually the expulsions started in late 1947 but UNWRRA was feeding and housing over 970,000 Palestinians by early 1949 so the figure of one million for 48 would be more accurate. There have been AT LEAST another million forced out of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza since 67, hence two million total. No Jews were kicked out of Arab lands, about 500,000 (NOT “800,00”) Jews WERE RECRUITED BY iSRAEL FROM THREE COUNTRIES, IRAQ, MOROCCO AND YEMEN IN THE 50S AND 60S. ISRAELI AGENTS EVEN BOMBED SYNAGOGUES IN BAGHDAD TO SPUR THIS FLIGHT ON, SEE MARION WOLFSON’S ZION IN BABYLON. ORIGINALLY THERE WERE 120,000 ARABS LEFT IN WHAT BECAME ISRAEL, NOT ONE MILLION. TODAY WITH THEIR DESCENDANTS THEY TOTAL ONE MILLION AND WHY SHOULDN’T THEY LIVE IN ISRAEL WHICH IS REALLY PALESTINE ?
Yes, the past impacts on the future, Israel should have thought of the consequences before they created Hamas. And the time period is much shorter than slavery in the USA so your analogy doesn’t hold.
I cited Said SO PEOPLE COULD READ HIS BOOKS AS I DID WITH THE OTHER AUTHORS I CITED. I DIDN’T CITE HIM FOR THE SAKE OF CITING HIM. I THINK HE’S VERY CONVINCING BUT PEOPLE CAN READ HIM AND SEE FOR THEMSELVES. Never heard of M. Oren AND I know the subject very well. Finally the Balfour Declaration was not legal but a usurpation of the previous UK promises for Arab independence if they joined the Allies against the Turks, a German ally. The Brits doublecrossed the Palestinian Arabs, were 93% of the 800,000 population in 1919. NOT legal at all. The UN only consisted of less than 40 members at the time of Israel’s creation and 2/3rds of those voting for the Palestine Partition were bribed or threatened by the US State to do so, hardly legal. See The Forrestal Diaries. Maybe you should read my refs before spewing the same old discredited Zionist garbage. Bottom line is that Israel is THE Occupier, the Palestinians are the Occupied. The ball has always been in Israel’s court. Where it belongs.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 17, 2007 at 8:19 PM (note: we agree that there are one million arabs living in Israel. They prefer Israel ldemocracy and have more social stability and work there)
Jewish refugees from arab lands (which you deny!)
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_independence_refugees_jews_what.phpforced out? are you referring to the result of the wars to exterminae Israel?
You may not like the nubmer of states belonging to the UN but that is what there was and what was recognized and accepted at the time—The Arabsw assisted Hitler; the Jews, their enemy, the Brits.
There was no state and has never been a state called Palestine. never.
I am very familiar with EdwardSaid…he is a very fine lit and music critic. But his solution was to make one state (he detested Arafat) but that clearly would be asking the legitimate state to stop being a state and allow it to be subsumed under a much larger Arab population. Goodbye Israel!
in passing: I did not ask you to stop responding. i asked that if you wanted to, fine, but not to use abusive language.
The US and the UN—check out history on this. The US was hardly about to even vote FOR Israel but Truman at the last moment did, though his State Dept, pro-arab, advised against so doing.
Michael Oren: his work so well received by Arabs that it was translated and sold in a number of Arab lands…then he began to change his perspective. But here from oneof his best known books
http://www.npr.org/news/specials/mideast/history/transcripts/6day-p4.100302.html
Posted by postroad on Apr 17, 2007 at 9:44 PM They don’t have anything approaching democracy in Israel for Arabs, see The Arabs In Israel by S Jiryis, Democracy in Israel by Norman Dacey, The Other Side Of The Coin by Alfred Lilienthal, The Transformation Of Palestine edited by Prof. Ibrahim Abu-Lughod, multiple writings of Israel Shahak, The Fateful Triangle by Noam Chomsky and many more writers from Robert Fisk to David Hirst.
In your last paragraph you are a fucking LIAR, Truman vigorously pushed for Israel, see The Forrestal Diaries by his Secretary of Defense Jim Forrestal, see What Price Israel ? by Lilienthal, Harry Truman And The Making Of Israel and go to the Washington Report On The Middle East or MERIP, Middle East Research Reports, both in DC. Never heard of Oren but it doesn’t matter, I have given you sufficient refs to challenge your fatuous assumptions. “The Arabs” never assisted Hitler, they were neutral in WW2 and only individuals like Sadat & the Mufti were pro-Nazi but then so was the whole Irish nation because they were anti-Brit and again it is a total nonsequitur. The UN was not a representative body then and its decision was not legal anyway, see the work of Professor W. T. Mallison in this regard. He used to be with GWU in DC. NPR is like a mouthpiece for the State of Israel, that source is pathetic.There never was any “to exterminate Israel.” The Zionist paramilitary outnumbered 3 to 1 the Arab armies who went into Palestine to stop the expulsions of Arabs going since late 1947 after the illegal partition against the group, Arabs, who were 66% of the population and owned 93% of the arable nonstate land at the time. Clearly this November 29, 1947 Partition was illegal and was brought solely through US intimidation, blackmail and coercion, already gave the refs here. IT DOESN’T MATTER WHETHER THERE WAS A STATE CALLED PALESTINE BECAUSE THERE WAS NEVER A STATE CALLED IRELAND UNTIL 1921 BUT THE IRISH HAD LIVED FOR AT LEAST A THOUSAND YEARS IN IRELAND, ERGO THE PALESTINIANS LIVED AT LEAST THAT LONG IN PALESTINE. THE RIGHTS OF PEOPLE COME BEFORE A STATE. Your whole argument is one long nonsequitur. Israel has 25% NONJewish population , it should not exist as Jewish State anymore than the US should be an official Christian nation. A democratic secular state is the only decent solution in Israel/Palestine. Don’t bother recycling this bullshit again, I’ve heard and rebutted it a thousand times. Israel ATTACKED Egypt in 1956 in the Suez Conspiracy with the UK and France. In 1967 again Israel attacked its neighbors, they claim pre-emption but they were the attackers. The ONLY time the Arabs ever attacked first was in 1973 by Egypt and Syria SOLELY to gain back their occupied lands, NOT to recover Palestine. Israel repeatedly invaded and attacked Lebanon including the worst invasion in 82 AFTER a year of quiet on the border. See Avi Schlaim’s The Iron War, see Robert Fisk’s The Great War For Civilization: The Battle For The Middle East and see his book Lebanon.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 17, 2007 at 10:44 PM If I follow your arguement about the Irish and the Plestinians, then the Am ericans have unjustly taken North America (stolen it) from the native Americans (aka Indians).
UN is not representative till such time as you can call it representative?
See history on Truman and the arguements about NOT recognizing a state for Israel, which Clark Clifford did however urge Truman to do.You can cite this and that. I too. Said wants one state to rid the region of israel . Fisk? very very anti-Israel.
Thje mufti met face to face with Hitler and he was in charge of Jerusalem.
The Jews fought the Axis (with a bbridgade) teven though they disliked the Brits and what they did with the region. Saw it as in their interests because of Hitler and Holocaust.No democracy? better in Syria? Saudi Arabia? Jordan? and on and on. Arabs in Israel can vote, serve in govt…they may be discriminated against but then show me any nation in the world where there is no discrimination going on.
I had asked you to refrain from name calling etc so that I no longer want to btoher engaging you in a back-and-forth.
Be of good cheer (epistle closing of N.T. writers) and peace be with you.
and, right: please recall that the Jews had a kingdom and a religion before the Arabs had a religion or a state in the region, since historical pecedence seems so vital to your arguement.
The Koran a late arrival on the scene…
enjoy all things
Posted by postroad on Apr 17, 2007 at 11:40 PM Truman heard those arguments but never gave them serious consideration and he was blunt about it, it was a naked appeal for Jewish votes as both Dewey and Taft in the GOP were playing the same game. Your analogy on the Indians is wrong because they were not sedentary, unlike the Irish and the Palestinians, they mostly did not cultivate the land, they were nomadic unlike the Irish and the Palestinians but to the extent that the US Govt did steal their lands and did break treaties they should be compensated and that is very possible. Palestine was a very small densely populated area even a century ago, the US very large and sparsely populated. UN with 33 nations was not representative, with 180 nations today it is. No great mystery here. The Jewish Kingdoms were both small and shortlasting AND 90% of the European & US Jews today are Ashkenazim NOT descended from the ancient Hebrews, see Arthur Koestler’s The Thirteenth Tribe, NOT that that even matters because the ancient Hebes committed genocide against the Assyrians, the Chaldeans, the Philistines (where Palestine name originates), the Canaanites and several others. The Arabs were the majority for at least 1,300 years before Zionism, some Arabs claim THEY go back to the Canaanites & the Philistines but that’s as irrelevant as your ancient kingdoms argument. Fisk is not anti-Israel, he’s anti-Israeli state and US State policies. When judging South Africa under apartheid the relevant standard was the condition of the two groups inside south Africa itself, not the Congo or Uganda or the Sudan, etc. That same standard applies to your nonsequiturs on Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc. The “holocaust” never happened, see ihr.org. The Hoax Of The 20th Century by Arthur Butz and Dissecting The Holocaust by Germar Rudolf thoroughly debunk the systematic extermination theory, Frank’s “diary,” the “gas chambers, ” the “six million figure” and other lies. A lot of Jews DID die in WW2 in Europe of typhus in the camps and some by shooting on the eastern front. Maybe a million but it was a world war and even IF the conventional tale was true (the very name “holocaust” meaning death by fire is inaccurate as regards European Jewry) the Arabs would not be responsible, lots of people met with Hitler. SO WHAT ? Totally irrelevant to the rights of the Palestinians to live in their country. Arabs are very limited in Israel because they can’t serve in the military and most of the govt benefits in Israel are tied to military service. Most would not want to but it in no way obviates the rank discrimination that vets receive in their favor in Israel and this cuts off Arabs from public & private sector jobs. Let’s don’t go into the age of the Koran, it has still been around a lot longer than either the state of Israel or the two ancient Judean kingdoms.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 18, 2007 at 12:30 AM Son—I have done sufficient work with holocaust history, survivors, and Germans whol know the period and what took place to bother any longezr in answring you. For whatever reason, you seem happy to belong to a group of oddballs who deny what every serious scholar knows as fact. In sum: you disqualify yourself by your statements. And the Indians? They had tieir territories and it was their land…now you find a reason to deny that they were there before the whites and do not qualify the way nomadic non-state Palestinians do.
Please do not respond. Go back to read your favorite sources to confirm the notions you have long held.
I would wish you well but knowing a number of victims of the Nazis first-hand, I prefer to have nothing further to say to you.
Posted by postroad on Apr 18, 2007 at 12:39 AM I will respond because that myth is a total lie which has done an incredible amount of damage to the whole world and the lying promoters like yourself have been forced to resort to medieval
imprisonment tactics to shut dissenters up. You are frightened to have your religious beliefs questioned here. As regards the Indians you know very well that a few hundred thousand or even a few million Indians would not have land title over 3 million square miles. By the way, the Palestinians are not nomads, that was only the very small Bedouin part of their population. Your response is argumentum ad hominem and argument by authority, both logical fallacies. When the holohoax story goes, israel does too.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 18, 2007 at 1:03 AM This discussion is ridiculous. Yes, the Holocaust occurred. That in no way justifies what the state of Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Period. The fact that it is Israel that is doing it in no way justifies Holocaust denial. Period.
Posted by freespeechlover on Apr 18, 2007 at 3:32 PM No, it didn’t and your assertion doesn’t make it so and while it wouldn’t justify Israel if it did, it is certainly relevant to 60 plus years of serious lying. See ihr.org and vho.org. and it’s holocaust (the very name a lie) revisionism. Not “denial” a loaded perjorative anti-concept.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 18, 2007 at 4:13 PM Don’t waste your time guys. Mikey hates everybody except his dead cats.
ihr and vho are staffed by angry old Nazi cranks like Mikey.
The Nazi’s were efficient bastards you have to give them that much. They documented every aspect of genocide.“The first is a diary entry by Joseph Goebbels of December 12, 1941. It runs as follows:
Bezüglich der Judenfrage ist der Führer entschlossen, reinen Tisch zu machen. Er hat den Juden prophezeit, daß, wenn sie noch einmal einen Weltkrieg herbeiführen würden, sie dabei ihre Vernichtung erleben würden. Das ist keine Phrase gewesen. Der Weltkrieg ist da, die Vernichtung des Judentums muß die notwendige Folge sein.With respect of the Jewish Question, the Führer has decided to make a clean sweep. He prophesied to the Jews that if they again brought about a world war, they would live to see their annihilation in it. That wasn’t just a catch-word. The world war is here, and the annihilation of the Jews must be the necessary consequence. [7]
The second is a note in his own handwriting by Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler in his soon to be published diary of a meeting he had with Hitler at the latter’s Headquarters (Wolfsschanze) on December 18, 1941. The notes are simply: [8]
Judenfrage / als Partisanen auszurottenJewish Question / to be exterminated like the partisans”
http://www.holocaust-history.org/hitler-final-solution/
Posted by texasindependent on Apr 18, 2007 at 6:45 PM Go to the Holocaust Historiography Project, at www.historiography-project.com You can download 500 pages of the writings of Professor Robert Faurisson on this subject and he totally destroys the sources that TexASS lists above, also on the same site if you are really ambitious you can download all the prosecution and defense witnesses in the 1988 Toronto trial of Ernst Zundel for holocaust heresy. Faurisson literally demolishes Raul Hilberg, the dean of the holohoax historians and I should add that Hilberg himself is critical of 90% of his fellow holocausters for their outright lying, half-truths and exaggerations. Now the ihr.org site links to several great sources particularly Germar Rudolf’s vho.org website which has at least 20 books you can either buy or download for free and you have your choice of languages, all are available in english. The Goebbels diary entry proves nothing and Hitler never vowed to exterminate the Jews. Anyone can make a speech predicting anything and in this case it bore no relation to reality. No serious historian takes this as a “proof” of anything. So to those of you who are serious here are some reading recommendations: The Hoax Of The Twentieth Century by Professor Arthur R. Butz of Northwestern University
Dissecting The Holocaust, edited by Germar Rudolf, Ph.D
The Dissolution Of Eastern European Jewry by Walter N. Sanning
Raul Hilberg:The Giant With The Feet of Clay by Jurgen Graf
Did Six Million Really Die ? by Richard Verrall (this one’s a monograph,
the others are books)
Debunking The Genocide Myth by Paul Rassinier, a compilation of two of his major works, he was a concentration camp survivor of Buchenwald and Dora
Three works in German by J.C. Burg, another concentration camp survivor, the others are in english
500-600 pages of the writings of Dr. Robert Faurisson, downloadable
at one time from the holocaust historiography project cited above
Additionally there are at least half a dozen books in english by Italian historian Carlo Mattogno about each one of the major Polish camps and the more controversial camps in Germany itself
Innocent At Dachau (momentarily forget author’s name) from Noonide Press in LA. And there are more. On the BiSexual healing thread here I listed all the major WW1 and WW2 revisionist works. Not just on the holocaust so-called. By the way, TexASS doesn’t like cats, it stems from the spanish evil eye thing going back to the Inquisition when his spanish forebears burned 30 million witches alive and killed almost that many black cats, which they associated with witches. TexASS would appreciate if that literal holocaust, death by fire, was not brought up. And also TexASS is very sensitive about war crimes committed by himself and his buttbuddies in Iraq since 2003. Please be appropriately sensitive in this very delicate area. Neither do we need to discuss his leaking colostomy bag. Your cooperation here is much appreciated.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 18, 2007 at 9:59 PM Why do so man y deniers always go back to Butz?
The EU has just (following the led of Germany) made it a crime to deny the Holocaust took place—and they are accepting the figures that historically have been given…why, then, would German, the country that is largely responsible for the Holocust make it a crime to deny it took place while you strange people, sitting in the U.S. need to deny it took place?Have you visited anyplace where records of the dead are kept? Numbers of victims etc? is that then all a fabricaion? What are your needs that you must deny what responsible scholars have know and studied for years? What inner drive obssess you lads?
Posted by postroad on Apr 18, 2007 at 10:08 PM Just one of MANY good sources. Why not check out my refs ? That will more than answer your rhetorical questions. The fact that the EU has become a super Stalinist totalitarian government will only hasten its coming demise. The UK will never enact that and recently the Atty Gen in Switzerland said it was time to repeal those laws there. The hundreds of lying perjurers at the DemJanJuk Show Trial in Israel showed the exact worth of this “holocaust” (the very word a lie) “testimony.” The Germans apparently never learned a thing from fascism and national socialism. This is precisely the type of totalitarian law that would have graced the Third Reich itself. Did you notice the Communist and Turkish exemptions ? Finally, little man, spare me your standard psychobabble nonsense as psychiatry and psychoanalysis are more discredited than the holohoax itself. Remember 50 million Frenchmen can be wrong and often ARE. Oh, read Aristotle on logical fallacies, the argument from authority being one of the major ones. His people in Greece had a civilization while your bareassed tribe in the Near East was committing genocide against all your neighbors.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 18, 2007 at 10:44 PM Now listen, you twep! I have not called you names. But if you want to call me little man, then know this:
I have a Ph.D and have taught courses in the Holocaust. I have known a number of survivors. I have been in the American Army at the tail end of WWII and served 3 months after the war began , landing by boat at Inchon in Korea, where I served for a year. So enough with the names calling. You are a sick puppy with many problems and unable to face reality. That so many nations have erected holocaust memorials, that so many books have been written about the Holocaust, and a number of them by hose perpetrating the horror, including very fhigh rnking Nazis, such as Albert Speer is sufficient to discredit the fellow sickies you believbe in. Now grow jup and don’t wste my time any further.
I can well imagine the sorts of people you hang with! A group; of misfits, losers, and dummies. Now you can stick your fist uyp your butt and do as you will but I will no longer answer your silly stuff.
farwell, waker boy
Posted by postroad on Apr 18, 2007 at 11:39 PM Look, Jackass, if you have taught courses peddling this crap then you are part of the problem, now take your own advice last night and restrain yourself from further crazed comments. Mark Twain used to say that it wasn’t so much ignorance that was the problem as that people know so much that ain’t so. You may be impressed with many people believing in a myth, I mean you have four billion nuts believing in something called “god” of which the actual iproof is on a par with the “holocaust” testimony, you have other nuts beleiving in “mental illness” of which the scientific, medical proof is zilch. See works of Thomas S. Szasz, MD, here. You had other morons believing in recovered memory and that turned out to be another hoax. As we all know 50 Frenchmen can be wrong and often are. Probably usually are. Calm down, old boy. Watch your truss AND FOR GODSAKE’S CHANGE YOUR COLOSTOMY BAG.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 18, 2007 at 11:56 PM So, this is the “choice”? You get to deny the Holocaust OR deny Palestinian rights? These are not the only options.
Posted by freespeechlover on Apr 19, 2007 at 12:41 AM lots of choices…best choice: both sides sit down and talk.
Posted by postroad on Apr 19, 2007 at 1:56 AM Post road
Mikey and the rest of the holocaust denial morons keep quoting each other as “sources”. Its a complete circle of bullshit. No one believes what these people keep spouting. He is a racist fringe lunatic.If you really buy the bullshit you spread Hardesty I have a bridge to sell you. Its the big orange one close to your house. You can set up a little toll booth and retire. Give it up. No one is listening, no one believes you or Harry Elmer Barnes, Willis Carto, James Martin, David Hogan, Rassinier, or Faurisson these racists, and you are cranks.
Like you these Holocaust DENIAL “experts” have been debunked every time you open your mouth. Not one shred of evidence has been produced to support any half baked theory you people come up with.
WE NEED KEN MCVAY!!
You all need medication and intense therapy. At your advanced ages why do you assholes hate so much. I thought old geezers were supposed to be happy grandfathers not Neo-Nazi rehabilitators…......
Posted by texasindependent on Apr 19, 2007 at 2:18 PM texasindependent
good going! not sure though that the denier wanker is old guy. I am. And a grandfather too.
I have long won dered why denieers are so hell-bent on their “cause,” since so many reputable people, and even the perps of the holocaust, have made it clear what had taken place. What motivates those dunderheads, I wonder? Wha is their need?
Posted by postroad on Apr 19, 2007 at 2:43 PM Beanerboy, why are you so scared to look at the revisionist arguments ? Far from quoting each other most of these people never knew each other and come from widely varying backgrounds, nations and political philosophies. Do you really think that the very low level ad hominem attacks by an imbecile like yourself is going to impress anybody at all ? Maybe an 85 year old seniler like postroad but that’s it. A scholar like Harry Elmer Barnes wrote over thirty books in history, sociology, international affairs, economics, political theory, criminology and philosophy while you were a tot soaking in your piss filled rubber duckee minipool. Ad hominem insults are the lowest level of the logical fallacy as pointed out by Aristotle over 2,000 years ago. Now fess up, were you hired by Willis Carto to make the anti-revisionist position look as stupid as possible ? If I wanted an advertisement of the other side, YOU’D be it ! So sad. By the way, it was Tim McVeigh and he was a trained Army killer just like yourself.
Postroader, the perps had no choice since the Stalinist courts starting with Nuremberg accepted the extermination Big Lie wholesale so the most each defendant could do was plead their own following orders line. Why are you so SCARED to check out the revisionist literature here ? You keep using logical fallacies like the Argument From Authority and the Argumentum Ad Hominem like your illiterate beaner brainbrother but you don’t engage in serious discussion. Probably because you CAN’T. I understand and you would have to admit that you have been dead wrong in your assumptions over the years and with so little time remaining for an old geezer like you that would be painful. You have my deepest pity.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 19, 2007 at 3:44 PM Freespeecher, the standard story has more holes than a package of swiss cheese regardless of how it impacts the Middle East.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 19, 2007 at 3:54 PM hey gyy…you ook logic 101 and fill your commentswith a latin phraws here and there. You were, I should note, the first one to name call but now you dislike that right? I have looked at a good deal of denial stuff and it simply is sheer nonsense. Now it is Nurenburg run by the Stalinists! again, sheer nonsense…in fact one of the judges lived in the city I had worked in for many years…he was hardly a “stalinist,” again more name calling. As for my being an old geezer, as you so charmingly put it, I am married to a very young woman and have been happily so for a number of years…If I am an old geezer, then so to your parents, whose mistake it was it seems was to bring you to life. A rubber would have served the nation well.
Posted by postroad on Apr 19, 2007 at 4:18 PM You never looked at any of the holocaust revisionist literature and you give it away by use of the “denial” anti-concept. F.J.P. Veale’s Advance To Barbarism is a devastating early indictment of the Nuremberg Stalinist Show trials which were right out of the Stalin show trials of the 30s. The very fact that one party to a conflict would be judging the other is a total fraud and that is why the leading UK historian A.J.P. Taylor labeled Nuremberg “a macabre farce.” You apparently are too stupid to understand what Stalinism means. It is a certain way of doing things and one does not have to be a Communist to engage in those tactics. One can become like a Communist without being one, so much for your “Judge” friend. As to age, you let it out the bag, old slimer. If you were serving in the army at the end of the war, you’d have to be at least in your eighties now. Basic math. As for your young wife, I’m sure you have assets galore and a great insurance policy. Give her my regards,old boy.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 19, 2007 at 4:30 PM BTW, Nuremberg: The Last Battle by David Irving is more recent and quite good. Irving is not actually a holocaust revisionist and his knowledge of holocaust revisionism is quite questionable as Robert Faurisson pointed out. But he is a very good historian and he uses more primary sources than any other one. He was the first to expose the Hitler Diaries as a fraud back in the early 80s. None of the revisionists question the camps, the antisemitism, the divided German responsibility for the war or that many Jews died of typhus in the last year of the war and that a certain number were shot on the eastern front by the Germans as well as others. But the alleged systematic extermination, the six million grossly inflated figure, the gas chambers, the Frank “Diary” (not Frank herself) and much else IS being questioned. And you can throw all the tantrums you want but this questioning will go on. Tough if you disapprove.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 19, 2007 at 4:38 PM Twit (aka wanker) pretty close to getting my age. I served this nation, twice. and you? Nada. Don’t worry about my assest. Get a job other than at fast food place some day.
Don’t go blaming the Stalinists for all things to make a point. Many many Americans in volved and who was the Am general that went into the death camp and made the soldiers look with care at what the holocust had wrought? deny that too, wiseass. Now you want to assert that Ike et al were wrong and lying or stalinists?
I am not arguing that the trials were “just.” Winners always pick up the chips and often punish the losers. But that is the way of the world and the Germans would not have erected a holocaust memorial and museum http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/German_Holocaust_memorial_dedicated
to satisy the StalinistsAnd in Poland:
http://eeuroperussiatravel.suite101.com/article.cfm/auschwitz_and_birkenau_terro or But you are deep in denial and a sad example of the will to be wrong.here, a list of memorials to holocaust (but wyou will state a fraud)
http://dir.yahoo.com/Arts/Humanities/History/By_Time_Period/20th_Century/Holocau ust__The/Memorials/but you have expert evidence that all this is a fraud—another tinfoil guy. And now tell us about conspiracy for 9/11
Posted by postroad on Apr 19, 2007 at 4:46 PM David Irving—the “scholar”—look, Irving a fake and he Richard Gere film jkust out all about his tricks. Joseph Goebels had PhD so that title stuff means but little.
Posted by postroad on Apr 19, 2007 at 4:49 PM Look, old slimer, you have no arguments and you make no cognitive points. Go find your falsies, clean the colostomy bag and be gone as you promised five postings ago. The “death camps” were never extermination camps as they admitted in 1960 when the Jewish Agency admitted the earlier lies about Dachau having “200,000” deaths, 30,000 inmates total and no gas chambers on German soil. They claim it took place in Poland but the Auschwitz reputed death toll has gone down from 9 million to 4 million to 1.25 million to 900,000 to 750,000 and who knows where it will finally end. I could go on but you have made up your find and I won’t disturb you with uncomforting facts. Irving forgot more about history than Lipstadt, you and Gere ever knew.
Please drop dead.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 19, 2007 at 5:32 PM http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/denial.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
http://www.remember.org/History.root.rev.html
http://skepdic.com/holocaustdenial.htmlHere you fucking moron is not only materials to show where you are a friggin wanker in your ideas but, better, what sort of LONER guy you are to need to believe the shit you do.
No more from you. When you finish high school and if you graduate, then read some more and send more self-revealing loner comments from the distrubed. Your parents must be pround to have raised a loser like you, a wanker, a silly twit.
go forth and sin no more
Posted by postroad on Apr 19, 2007 at 5:39 PM Look, old fool, I know your refs listed above and I’ve seen full refutations of same. NOW you look at mine. And stop writing to me, you keep saying it’s the last time but that was six times ago !
Posted by blondemike on Apr 19, 2007 at 6:24 PM Thanks Bart. We like to bring in warm weather. Why not chat with Mr Lonely, the loser who posts nonsense here in order to find a little place where someone might pay a bit of attention to him. He needs meds, though.
Posted by postroad on Apr 19, 2007 at 9:08 PM sure, probably a coincidence but there’s a guy at my school that was posting real controversial stuff like this and his parents found out. his
name is mike but probably a coincidence, anyway when he got home he
got his seat warmed up but good. his girlfriend was with him but they didn’t care, they took his pants and underpants down and gave him the bare butt spanking they thought he deserved. another guy made a play for his girlfriend and took her away and his folks grounded him for two months. if it’s the same guy he’s in trouble ! i wouldn’t want to be his behind tonight. think i’ll pass this on and see if it checks out. you put out controversial stuff even if true, you gotta expect a reaction. his folks don’t fool around.
Posted by bart on Apr 19, 2007 at 9:53 PM If you have been following this stuf, you wil see that there are many monuments and museums put up by those countries that were particpants in the Holocaust and they are now expressing regret for what took place. Why then would they bother if the Holocaust had not taken place?
You will note, too, that in every instance where a trail was held for libel or denial claims, the people denying the holocaust lost in the courts—courts where evidence had to be made available. You will also note that top ranking nazis from theHitler regime left written records, diaries, bios of what took place. So the evidence is very substantial.What then concerns me is the crazed need some people feel to deny that which took place. What motive? What do they have to gain by denying an event witness by so many and written up (unlike, say he Armenian genocide)by so many people from so many counries?
What do they expect to gain from denying that the Holocaust took place.? Origianlly, this areas dealt with the Israeli and Palestine issue. Israel, it seems, was in large measure granted statehood as a place at long ls for the displaced and homeless survivors of the Holocaust to go. It is too the bibical land that has always housed Jews, as well as Arabs. I assume that by denying the Holocaus those people hope to show that Israel was founded on a falsehood. But Zionism was a believe, a practise, a perspective well before the Holocaust, so even that perspective seems a waste of time.
Posted by postroad on Apr 19, 2007 at 10:04 PM I go away for a while and you come back with the same nonsense ? Every assertion that you make has been refuted at painstaking length by revisionist authors ad infinitum. No one is “denying” anything, as an atheist I don’t “deny” god, I just don’t believe in the concept. Your thesis that if enough people believe something than it must be true is logically groundless and historically inaccurate. People believe anything if it’s repeated enough. Since the revisionists do not deny the objectively evil things the Germans did that ARE documentable like the camps for forced labor, the anti-Jewish legislation, large numbers of deaths due to typhus and to a lesser extent, shootings on the eastern front, your puzzled search for psychobabble reasons make no sense. There haven’t been any trials on the merits of the revisionist case, Mermelstein in California introduced some dubious “evidence” that he said proved the gas chambers at Auschwitz, he never complied with the rules of evidence set up by IHR to judge it, the LA Judge told IHR that they better settle out of court with him because any LA Jury would award him emotional damages because he could prove anything with his emotions. So there never was a trial and when Mermelstein subsequently went after IHR for revealing the exact reasons for the settlement, another Judge tossed that out. Irving sued Lipstadt for calling him a holocaust denier, it was a stupid suit because although he is NOT a revisionist, he did have some serious doubts. So she was easily within her rights to use her smear label on him. The trial settled nothing historically. ALL the other trials in Canada, Europe, Australia have all been for the “crime” of questioning the “holocaust.” They never dealt with or settled anything historically. The closest to doing this was Zundel’s 1988 trial in Toronto where his witnesses far outshined the prosecutions and Raul Hilberg, the dean of holohoax “historians” was totally exposed. See Raul Hilberg:The Giant Of Clay by Jurgen Graf. Nothing the top Nazis left in any way proved there was a holocaust and their confessions were uniformly the product of torture as was the case from Hoess onwards. His earlier claims of four million Jews exterminated at Auschwitz-Birkenau is not even believed by Vad Vashem or Wiesenthal today. Finally most European Jews did not want to go to Palestine after the war and were, as Roosevelt put it, the preferred wards of the world, they were blackjacked into going to Palestine. See The Zionist Connection by Alfred M. Lilienthal. The Armenian mass slaughter is actually better documented but they are not a powerful pressure with great media influence as the Jews are. Nor have they shown the same proclivity to lie as so many Jews have. Not all but a great many. Zionism has a political resettlement movement was only a few decades before Hitler, it does not have an ancient pedigree.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 19, 2007 at 10:08 PM Bart, check out ihr.org and follow their links to vho.org. I think you’ll find it of great interest. What was your classmate posting ? Sounds like his parents had a knee jerk reaction but I wouldn’t doubt this has happened before many times in other families. Getting your butt whipped in front of your girlfriend would be a bummer !
Posted by blondemike on Apr 19, 2007 at 10:49 PM thanks, mike. i’ll look at it. i spoke to a mutual friend here at hs and our mike was asswhupped for looking at the sites you list. someone wanted to make trouble for him and got to his parents. he has quit looking at the sites because his parents told him he’d get it again if he ever did. he’s a skinny guy and he’s mom is solidly built as is the old man. was told that a girl here also got into trouble for surfing those sites too. same thing, someone told her parents and her 15 yr old butt
was tanned hard. usually that sort of thing is reserved for kids caught smoking. saw where that guy on the other board here was threatening to commit you and tatoo you. if he’s as powerful as he seems from his posting he might be spanking you next ! we have a school shrink here and a couple of kids sassed him and he had them in a lockup faciltiy
before you could say boo. they were forced to take meds and they learned a real attitude adjustment. could this guy on here force you to recant your ideas ?
Posted by bart on Apr 20, 2007 at 12:23 AM Bart, thanks very much for your feedback and concern. Adults do have rights and the guy on the other thread was just a hot air machine and I called his bluff and he folded. End of story. There are a lot of flamers on here, just ignore them. Where are you located ? Sounds like surfing certain forbidden sites is a sure fire way to get your behind spanked at your school. But you’ll suvive it. I did. There was no internet back then but my folks laid down the house rules and I had my teenage seat warmed on several occasions by both parents.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 20, 2007 at 3:30 PM Loser: do not call “foldin g” whensomeone dec ides you are an asshole and not worth chatting with. Go back to pulling your dick, Mr Lonely
Posted by postroad on Apr 20, 2007 at 4:05 PM Postroad, I grew up in Rye and Westport so I know they had their quota of a-holes but I’m having trouble with your latest wordsalad. That person on the OTHER thread did fold and you did too. You say your dick fell off ? See a doctor ASAP.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 20, 2007 at 4:23 PM Weren’t you the kid (with acne) who got caught sniffing undies in the boy’s locker room at Staples High? and now work night shift at McDonald’s cleaning fry baskets?
Posted by postroad on Apr 20, 2007 at 4:45 PM i think he’s ignoring you and after reading the whole thread here i think he’s right to do so. you seem unusually foulmouthed and stupid for such an old guy. i was told to respect old folks but not old fools. you better quit while you’re only a trillion miles behind.
Posted by bart on Apr 20, 2007 at 5:02 PM Mikey
Why waste the time to persue your sites and read your utter bullshit? The basic premise is flawed and ridiculous how can the final outcome be any different?Do you belong to a flat earth website as well? Maybe phrenology your head seems bumpy enough….............
As an old geezer you seem to know an awful lot about colostomy bags…I bet your “wife” would LOVE some non-viagra enhanced brown snake. You have been short-shifting her for far too long.
Posted by texasindependent on Apr 21, 2007 at 4:00 AM TexASS, repetition of ad hominem insults does NOT an argument make no matter how often you reiterate it. You wouldn’t know a basic premise if it bit you on your excrement soaked brown ass which just happens to be the color of shit. You obviously are scared to examine the revisionist literature because you know it demolishes your views here and you are scared to admit that you have been wrong for 47 years. I do not think that your practice of picking your foreman’s fruit by wearing a colostomy bag over your head is productive. Nor do I recommend your Mama’s puta practice of inserting snakes into her vagina. Even for TexASS, the armpit of the universe, you are a uniquely revolting specimen. Out here in LA when the Me Hee Cans move in, the blacks move out. Who wants to hear drunks betting all night in rooster fights ? Be sure to deduct the 13 mil wetback illegals from the 40 mil figure because that’s the number Rudy’s going to deport in 09. Capice ?
Posted by blondemike on Apr 21, 2007 at 7:15 PM Mikey
I am not even close to 47. It would be impossible for me to be “wrong” longer than I have been alive. Don’t be a dumbass.All your old cronies are crapsuckers without a shred of scientific evidence. I will not waste the bandwidth to “review” racist bullshit, discredited Nazi propaganda, and old assholes ramblings about the Jooo’s. I get enough of that from you.
I will give your “wife” a good pounding without any viagra needed and I will continue to kick your old knarly Jew hating ass here and will follow you to other forums to kick it there. You have never won an arguement jackass, people grow weary of hearing your rambling repetitive idiocy. I see you for what you are and don’t plan on going anywhere. Now threaten me dickless you know beaners are crazy about fighting….......
Change your colostomy bag you reek of shit. Stop molesting small boys. Shove holocaust denial right up your cornhole. And NO you can’t watch me bone “Nina”
Posted by texasindependent on Apr 21, 2007 at 9:36 PM Scene in a Texas hospital around four decades back:
Doctor: Congragulations, Senora, it’s an eight pound brown bastard.
Woman: What you mean ? I was only trying to take a dump.
Doctor: You have any idea who the father is ?
Woman: What do you think I am, the Chicana Sherlock Holmes ?
Doctor: Well, what do you want to do with the ugly little bastard ?
Woman: Abort it
Doctor: We did.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 22, 2007 at 9:28 PM I accept your concession on all points. Since you wrote that you were in the army on the Commie lie tour of Auschwitz almost 20 years, you have to be at least 40. I am glad that you retracted your juvenile insults and are starting on the works of Rassinier, Faurisson, Butz, Sanning, Harwood, Hoggan, Rudolf, Burg, Graf, Staglich and Mattogno. A great start. Sorry to hear about your recall to Iraq and am glad that you resigned from the GOP. They don’t need your stinky brown color of shit behind. You see how the GOP white boys are standing behind Uncle Alberto. It is true that you have been universally judged to have badly lost every argument here and it is true that as an anti-Arab Racist you are the biggest anti-semite on the ITT or any other board. 99.99% of all Semites, all Arabs ARE Semites and most AshkeNAZI Jews are not. Finally, permission to suck my cock denied, Private.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 22, 2007 at 9:37 PM I went to Auschwitz in 89. I am 38. Puto.
I have started burning the works of your ass buddies Rassiner, Butz, Hoggan, ect. Thanks for the advice. They cook tortillas quite well. Its their only value.I have not lost anything. As this is the Internet and not reality the ramblings of an old racist geezer have no impact on my life, opinions, or the fact that you are a Nazi piece of dogshit.
It would not matter if I was in a room with you and your Jew hating friends, I would say the same thing. You are an idiot. A crank. A hate filled old bastard without a shred of intelligence or common sense. A boil on society’s ass. You belong in prison for being a pedophile and spreading idiocy without a single shred of scientific proof.
You would not say a single word to me in person, Hardesty like Arabs and all bullies you cow down when faced with someone who isn’t afraid of you or your bullshit. You are a blowhard son of a bitch. Slink back under your rock pervert.
http://www.holocaust-history.org
Posted by texasindependent on Apr 23, 2007 at 12:16 AM You are right in saying that you would not say a single word to me in person because you are a physical coward who can’t even reason or spell or knows the simplest basic logic. I will be here after every post you make to correct your anti-white, anti-Arab Communist-inspired holohoax bullshit. Give your real name, phone number and address and I’ll tell you in person what a piece of anti-American, pro-Communist cocksucker that you are. You were a coward in Iraq, you never dared confront even one Arab in person. In person you would pleading to suck my dick. You never saw the works of revisionists much less read them. It’s doubtful that you can read. Name the time and place, MARICON.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 23, 2007 at 1:02 AM I was stationed in San Antonio for four
years and I have to tell you it was an eye
opener. I had never met greasers before but
these people gave a new meaning to the
term “degenerate.” Dirty kids running barebutted
through the streets, unflushed commodes every
where you turned. Roosters cackling all night long
and goats in the yard. As far as the legendary Chicano
macho went they were plenty tough if there were twelve
of them and one of you….....Otherwise just punks.
Bush should be impeached for criminal negligence
for failure to secure our southern border.
Posted by bostonblackie on Apr 23, 2007 at 4:32 PM Bogus phone numbers don’t count. Print your full name and address,
then repeat the pedophile libel and I will have an attorney contact you.
Posted by blondemike on Apr 23, 2007 at 6:10 PM TI used to post on yahoo before they
discontinued their message boards
because of overuse by jerks like him.
He would post “I can beat up any liberal
in the house” and then give that bogus 830
number which was a prison hospital. Lots
of people called it and reported back to the
message boards. Ignore the greaser. Crop
picking must be in the slow season his way.
Posted by bostonblackie on Apr 23, 2007 at 9:21 PM Hmm strange convergence of themes between bostonblackie/ blondmike I think your medication needs some adjustments to avoid the unpleasant self-conversations I never mentioned ethnicity to BB only to BM. HA jackass busted…..
“Bostonblackie” are you an old Jew hating Alzheimers patient as well?
Mikey you puss I gave you my number. Waiting for your and your “lawyer” to give me a call. Asshole. ...
Posted by texasindependent on Apr 23, 2007 at 10:09 PM TI, you are fooling no one here. Giving that
state hospital for the criminally insane number
like you used to on yahoo. Oh, I read your many
anti-white postings here including the rant on the
illegals new thread. If you don’t want your ethnicity
revealed, then don’t reveal it. I saw so many fat
ugly greasers like you while stationed four years
in San Antonio that your foulness doesn’t impress
me in the least. Tell me, why do your women balloon
out by age 30 ? They look so nice and then like a ticking
time bomb…......then of course the guys like you all have
massive beer guts by 25. “Reconquista” what a joke !
Any President with cojones could flush you illegals
right down the Rio Grande.
Posted by bostonblackie on Apr 23, 2007 at 10:44 PM The same bogus prison hospital number again !
You were exposed a dozen times on yahoo for
giving this out. You are a pathetic guy. We all
notice your potty mouth and your obsession
with the alimentary canal. When are you greasers
going to start flushing ? If I came to your right
now I guarantee unflushed commodes. Do
you people just like to look at and sniff your own
bodily waste ? Even blacks are models of cleanliness
compared to Mexicans. Do not leave any grease here
on this site here tonight.
Posted by bostonblackie on Apr 24, 2007 at 12:33 AM HI, Y’all!
texasindependent,
bostonblackie and blondemike are the same person to a 99% probability. Actuslly there are the handywork of a freeper and troll who used to prowl this site throughout the summer of 2005—check the blogs from May to August of 2005. especially those by JACK BARNES and the dozens of bogus names he used.
You can generally idntify his posts as they all
are done in this format as our dear Jackie boy
did many of his posts in the format I’m imitating.
Compare the above to the posts by bostonblackie. Then compare his writng style and vocabulary choice to that of blondemike. Cross-reference that with the aforementioned posts put forth by Jack Barnes and his bogus names used all throughout the summer of 2005. You will see a definite connection. A little research will yield a wealth of knowledge about this troll/freeper/general pest.Ta-Ta !
Posted by Aunty Rightwing on Apr 24, 2007 at 3:47 AM “Aunty” wrong again but then you never
let facts get in the way of a good yarn.
Sorry Jack Barnes jilted you.
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