I’m not sure if many Americans have noticed, but the concept of race has taken some devastating hits in recent years. Everywhere one looks in academia these days—from the abstract precincts of critical theory to the hard laboratories of molecular genetics—once-mighty notions of racial taxonomy have fallen hard. The latest assault on race was a three-part PBS series, Race: The… return to article
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Reader Comments (60)Page 1 of 1 pagesI write a column covering similar issues (its probably the only far left column in Nevada history), and I’ve found that the hardest thing is to cement in the readers’ minds that SCIENCE itself says we’re all human, and therefore, great power has the great responsibility to vote/invest accordingly. Short of first contact with an extraterrestrial RACE (note the proper use of the term), psychological* warfare is in order (since Stalinism’s not an option). The problem is how expensive it is. Nethertheless, the best case scenario would be is if someone could re-do The Terminator so that it’s someone as dark/flat featured as Wesley Snipes who’s shown impregnating Linda Hamilton’s charcter with the Chosen One destined to save the future of humanity. Imagine the positive, psychological* effect such a scene would have on the AMERICAN masses of all masses. You might actually have good ol’ boys thinking twice before they tie anyone else to the back of a pickup truck and drag their asses for a couple of miles . . .
Posted by Saab Lofton on Jun 20, 2003 at 1:39 PM Maybe this idea of racial heirarchy wouldn’t survive if black didn’t perpetuate it on their own. In other words, whites would have a much harder time claiming to be more civilized than blacks if the blacks didn’t kill each other, use drugs, bear bastard children, and land in prison at such alarming rates. The Benton Harbor riots, over some idiot who ran his motorcycle into a wall, aren’t helping the cause either, Mr. Muwakkil. And don’t try to blame it on slavery or white oppression, because the state of affairs in Africa is much worse and always has been.
Posted by Jimmy on Jun 20, 2003 at 2:13 PM I do not believe racism in the philosophical construct of white supremacy will end until the European images of the Creator are addressed with intense religious, historical and phislosophical discussion. This must be done with candor and continuously. When Caucasians can accept that a white or European image of the Divine is immoral, illogical, and scripturally improper, then and only then will the termination of race and racism begin.
Posted by Adib Rashad on Jun 20, 2003 at 3:10 PM Jimmy you make a good point here, but you took it bit too far, as you made a generalization about all blacks and the continent of Africa was pretty screwed up by Europeans. But still, 70% of African-American children are born out of wedlock.
What I belive the main problem with black leadership is that they never admit fault, they won’t blame black people. There are a lot of odds against blacks but those odds are definitely insurmountable. Blacks have to take responsibility for their own actions and condemn those who commit wrongdoings. There is a reason why Asians have assimilated so well and Blacks have not.
Posted by Brad on Jun 20, 2003 at 3:32 PM Brad, I agree with most of what you said and that Europeans definitely made their mark on Africa. I still believe that most of the African countries were better off under colonial rule. I cannot think of one exception.
Also, I didn’t mean all blacks kill each other, use drugs, rot in prison, and have bastard children. I meant that blacks do all these things much more than whites.
You have a great point about black leaders telling their people that all their problems are the white man’s fault. They blame the problem of blacks in prison on the government, rather than the scum who committed crimes. They decry “hate crimes” when 90% of interracial crimes involve a white victim and a black perpetrator.
Until they stop passing the buck their lot will never improve, no matter how many guilt-stricken white liberals want to atone for the sins of the white man.
Posted by Jimmy on Jun 20, 2003 at 3:56 PM As an african black who grew up in africa, i have to say that the problems of africa that jimmy discusses, are those that are in the present today with such countries as zimbabwe trying to shake of their colonial rule.
unfortunately, as it is with many problems around the world, people make the presumption that once leadership changes hands, change in itself has taken place; when that’s not the case.
black americans also suffer from that same notion...the legal boundaries that have kept them down, have been taken away, but the despair of their situation will remain for a couple more generations until economic equality is established.
blacks in the world should not be so hard on themselves, and should remember they are the ONLY people in the world who have been enslaved, raped, disenfranchised and robbed for over 500 years, both in africa and in europe.
give them a couple of generations, and things will work out.
Posted by grace on Jun 20, 2003 at 5:39 PM Grace, legal boundaries don’t keep anyone down who can obey the law. Maybe your people should focus on abiding by existing laws instead of trying to change laws that “target” them should be changed. For example, drug laws affect blacks much more than they do whites. Instead of bitching about the laws’ effects your people would be better advised to stay off drugs. That is just one example of the attempt of black leaders to pass the blame off to the “system.”
Posted by Ted on Jun 20, 2003 at 9:03 PM Indeed. People are all human beings trying to find a connected humanity and share in life’s beauty. But we are all caught up in the tentacles of an economic system driven by the personal forces of greed. We are striving for more of everything against each other. We blame the “other”, because of their skin colour and/or economic status, for the difficulties within our personal and collective lives, even if we have more wealth than we can use.
The first place to look for change is within ourselves, then our outlook into our outer connected lives, can begin to change.
Posted by Anthony Stapleton on Jun 21, 2003 at 7:40 AM Along with the surperb piece on race above, we can see racism and hatred in action from the comments below. Hate bellowing out like the hot winds of hell.
Let’s forget that most in the army are young black men trying to better the lives of themselves and their families.
Let’s forget that all of the people who have given secrets of our government away to our enemies have always been well educated and well office white men.
Let us forget that the mightest nations always will and always have trampled the lesser nations.
Let us forget that Timothy McVeigh was a white guy with everything good going for him--even the false trappings of being a white man--yet he saw fit to blow up little children and babies.
But there is no day-in and day-out outcry of the savagry of the white race. There is no downward look at the actions of a people supposedly superior and at the right hand of God.
According to the hate that continues in the name of White Greatness and in the sight of God, all other peoples are supposed to be trampeled thusly and also spat upon as they are being trampled.
Posted by Mrs. Hart on Jun 21, 2003 at 2:13 PM I recently saw a column questioning the African origin theory on the basis of some remains found on the steppes. Yes we’re all human, but that is nothing to be proud of. On the basis of our twentieth century accomplishments-187 million humans murdered by their fellow man and God knows how many members of other species- all humanity can claim is that iti is the most successful ptrdator.
Posted by Art Hambach on Jun 21, 2003 at 2:45 PM Some people who have posted claim that all the modern ills blacks endure are perpetuated by blacks themselves. While this is partially true, one must consider a major point that the above article has made, which is:
“Notwithstanding those socio-economic distinctions, the idea of racial difference seems obvious; people with a certain skin color and hair texture also tend to have common behavioral traits. However, science is revealing that those observable, ìnaturalî differences are social constructions rather than biological facts.”
This is an important point. Having this in mind, let us consider the history of the African people in modern times—this history is riddled with terrible crimes such as slavery and colonialism. Unfortunately, the United States has not rectified the crime of slavery. Consider the failed Post Civil War Reconstruction plan which was meant to give former slaves the touted “40 acres and a mule” to start their lives anew—this did not happen, instead, blacks left their masters penniless and destitute. Combine this with the Jim Crow laws that robbed black males with the right to vote which were revoked a staggering 100 years later. And, on top of all of this, the prevailing racist ideology in American society kept blacks in a state of eternal poverty that was seeded from slavery to begin with.
With all of odds against them, it is foolish to think that blacks as an entire group (or ANY group thus treated historically) could be full-fledged, functioning members of our beloved society during the mere 30-odd years since the monumental Civil Rights Movement. After all, the poverty experienced by modern blacks is fully rooted in the legacy of slavery.
Therefore, these “social constructions” the author writes of are just that. My main point is that the socioeconomic situation of many blacks is not simply a matter of “choice” nor is it related to fictional assumptions about “race”—it is much more complex and history is its bedrock.
Posted by VR on Jun 21, 2003 at 4:37 PM Mrs. Hart,
Timothy McVeigh was what we might call a ‘useful idiot’. The official story, in which he did that much damage to the Murrah building with a fuel-and-fertiliser bomb parked outside (!), is pure drivel. It defies the laws of physics.
Posted by O on Jun 22, 2003 at 3:30 AM Wait a second O! are you suggesting that timothy mcveigh wasn’t actually the ollahoma city bomber!? He was, he admitted to it. And if the bomb hit the right supports, of course the building could collapse.
Posted by Brad on Jun 22, 2003 at 9:17 AM 1997 study by the US Air Force:
“It is impossible to ascribe the damage that occured on April 19th, 1995, to a single truck bomb containing 4,800 pounds [of ammonium nitrate and fuel oil]...In fact, the maximum predicted damage of the floor panels of the Murrah federal building is equal to approximately 1% of the total floor area of the building.“It must be concluded that the damage at the Murrah federal building is not the result of the truck bomb itself, but rather due to the other factors such as locally placed charges within the building itself”
Posted by O on Jun 22, 2003 at 4:49 PM I want to present a point of view that has not been seen, so please forget the Oklahoma stuff for now.
First, slavery was not invented by whites. Most African tribes enslaved their enemies. When the slave trade became lucrative they sold them to the whites. (See Brittanica entry under Slavery.) Dr. King said all people are equally racist. It is a tendency of the human ego to think mine (country, economic system, religion, race) is the only true way and yours is misguided or worse. Caucasians stand out as the most successful racists only because they invented technology, which allowed them to conquer other racial groups on a larger scale than anything seen before.
Second, despite the claims of the liberals (here come the brickbats!), there are racial differences. If you have any good black friends, get them in a truthful moment and they will admit they believe blacks are born more musical, more athletic, more warm spirited and more vocally spiritual. They are right.
Third, Western (left and right) belief in the the superiority of their system (see ego above) is the real problem. We are forcing blacks to learn skills evolution has not prepared them for. Blacks are not mathematicians (less than 1% of PhDs in math went to blacks last year.) They do not do not have strong organizational abilities. (A great untold story is that things that work in Africa are often run by Indians.) Hey, I am lousy at math and organizing. Does that make me inferior? Ridiculous!
Imagine what an America animated by African ideas would look like. Instead of keeping an icy distance from each other, while living in English-derived mini manors on quarter acre lots, weíd live in cooperative villages. Weíd have colorful festivals full of the feeling that spirit is everywhere. We would retain a sense of the magic of life that Westerners seem obliged to lose around age twelve. If you think Africans need to unlearn these things to be ìcivilized,î then you are part of the problem.
Let us go humbly to the Africans, my white brethren, to learn how to live life. We cold and emotionally constipated Westerners need to learn that while math and science are excellent contributions, creativity, love, nurturing and spirit are the things that serve what is most basic in human beings.
Posted by James on Jun 23, 2003 at 12:26 AM James,
Thanks for the fresh perspective, it was welcome. One thing: how about you say what you feel like saying and I say what I feel like saying. Sound fair?
Posted by O on Jun 23, 2003 at 8:10 AM I’d like to comment on what James from Washington DC said.
I respect your opinion and it is certainly interesting—thank you for posting.
Here goes…
First of all, I think most people would dispute the argument that white people “invented” slavery—of course they didn’t. Slavery has existed in many (most?) cultures. I will not dispute your point that whites “perfected” slavery—perhaps they did.
What I want to dispute is this: you argued that blacks “have not evolved” to the level of whites in math and the sciences. I’m not going to say that you are racist for saying this—so don’t get prematurely upset or anything. It seems to me, then, that you are arguing that there are inherent genetic differences between white and black people. You may not believe the article above where it states that genetic research has shown that, indeed, there are NO noteworthy genetic differences between the races—after all, it did say this:
“The first segment also notes that many of our ìphenotypicî characteristics, like skin color, evolved recently, after we left Africa. But traits like intelligence, musical ability, and physical aptitude are of a more ancient genetic vintage and thus are common to all populations.”
Explicitly, the article purports that every race has the same sort of intellectual etc. apptitude on the basis of genetic evidence. I believe genetic research, when analyzed properly, does not lie.
Therefore, your assumption (and the honest confession of your black friend) is mostly true. BUT (and this is a big but) these “differences” you mention are not really genetic differences, but are social differences.
(continued, next post...)
Posted by VR on Jun 23, 2003 at 12:05 PM (continued from last post...thanks for sticking around to read it)
Consider this: Zora Neale Hurston was a black author who grew up in the rural south (early 1900s). She did some interesting anthropological research which was subsequently used in her novels and short stories. She found that Africans and their American slave descendents valued oratory and narrative ability. In these rural black villages that cropped up after the abolition of slavery, the ability to speak eloquently, tell a story and sing passionatly was highly regarded and revered. A person was in high esteem in the community if he/she could do these things. Why? Well, during slavery, blacks were kept ignorant by not being allowed to read and learn. Nascent African slaves were prohibited from practicing thier native religions and speaking thier native tongues. In effect, verbal narrative became a very useful tool to the black community—it was a way to empower them. Perhaps you have read the book “Roots”—well, you would remember that the American descendents of the African slave Kunta Kinte had passed African folklore down generations—narrative, oratory ability in practice.
Well, this is a long post and I did not mean to write this much. My main point is that these differences you see are SOCIAL constructions and not based on genetics. Why white/black people are the way they are does not come down to genetic inferiorites, as the article clearly and succinctly states. There is no such scientific evidence to back this up. There are deeper social issues at play here.
Thank you for reading this (ugh) rather long post—I appreciate it.
Posted by VR on Jun 23, 2003 at 12:07 PM Er, sorry about the misspellings (darn...): aptitude, passionately, inferiorities, their. ohers Im shure
(I can spell, really, I can....)
Posted by VR on Jun 23, 2003 at 12:13 PM Jimmy you ignorant limpdick racist redneck tosser. Nice of you to label the whole black race with the usual crap stereotypes. White men dont have bastard children or use drugs? or go to jail? You are just reflecting the thinking of the endemic racists in the majority white institutions. All the things you claim blacks do more than others is a reflection of their social status. Your powerful white countries keeping the thirld world poor by drip feeding aid whilst at the same time making sure these countries are buried under a mountain of debt. Corrupt politicians are bribed and kept in power. The masses in these countries are too poor even to afford food never mind build schools and get an education that may be their only hope. You bastards bleed these countries dry and hand out peanuts whilst spending trillions on building arms and bombs which amazingly find their way onto the african continent to fund wars and make the lives of those people still more miserable. The politicians in these countries are corrupt without doubt but they are funded by bribes. The wars are perpetuated with arms sold by western manufacturers. Any chance that they might have of improving their status is wiped out by the unfair restrictive trade practices of the western majority white world. Agricultural subsidies and trade barriers keep the third world in their place. Meanwhile we force them to open up their markets to us by combination of threats and bribery. So you can spout your bullshit from now until judgement day but it doesnt change the truth, that the whites never stopped exploiting the blacks even after the abolition of slavery. With your twisted views I wouldnt be surprised if you believe slavery should be brought back.
Posted by Garse on Jun 23, 2003 at 12:51 PM “White men dont have bastard children or use drugs? or go to jail?”
No, Garse, I never said that. But look at the statistics and you will see that in the US, the percentage of black felons, bastards, and drug-users is much higher than the percentage of white felons, bastards, and drug-users.
“All the things you claim blacks do more than others is a reflection of their social status.”
Does that mean it’s society’s (i.e. the white man’s) fault? Blame it on whatever you want, but when two people have have bastard children it’s no one’s fault but their own. If someone uses drugs, regardless of his social status, it is his fault. When people commit crimes, no one but the perpetrators themselves are to blame. These people are not victims of society no one is responsible for their plight but themselves.
Posted by Jimmy on Jun 23, 2003 at 1:21 PM After reading the article and the rather straight forward, well accepted, non-ideologic premise that race is a social and not a genetic construct, I’m shaken by the malignant racism of so many In These Times readers. Part of the racism displayed is clearly pure stupidity, but some of it is also, just as clearly, malevolent. I’ll stop thinking of the readers of a progressive journal as the best and the brightest. As a group we certainly are not.
Posted by SEJl on Jun 23, 2003 at 1:26 PM It amazes me how whenever someone criticizes a race in any way they are automatically considered racist. It is possible to criticize a group without hating them.
The people on the board who are looking at the Black community and how their leaders tend to blame whites are speaking honestly. They don’t hate blacks, in fact they want the black community to take more responsibility so they can better their status.
Posted by Brad on Jun 23, 2003 at 2:09 PM Rather than attributing the higher percentage of blacks in jail, on drugs, and having children out of wedlock to some inherent ‘racial’ trait, why don’t you filter these statistics by socioeconomic class? The fact is, the majority of whites who are in jail, on drugs, and having children out of wedlock are lower class, and within that class, the differences between blacks and whites are quite small. Of course, a larger percentage of the black population is lower class....
When asked why blacks followed leaders like Al Sharpton, a friend of mine once responded: “well, why do whites follow leaders like Jerry Falwell?” The point being, of course, that a relatively small percentage of whites follow Jerry, just as a relatively small percentage of blacks follow Al. The problem is not so much the folks who are considered “black leaders” as the fact that said folks are genuinely believed (by most white Americans) to actually represent all black Americans. To quote my friend, that’s some kind of stupid.
Posted by Aaron on Jun 23, 2003 at 4:31 PM Jimmy, “tosser” is British slang, and it means the same thing as “wanker”; basically, Garse was calling you a masturbator…
Way to cut deep, Garse; everyone knows that baseless personal attacks are the philosopher’s tools of debate…
Posted by Aaron on Jun 23, 2003 at 4:37 PM * i’m coming a little late to this article, but usually mr muwakkil does a better job of getting his facts straight.
* genetically all humans are the same. ‘race’ is a misnomer and obscures the fact that any fertile male can impregnate any fertile female and they can have a fertile offspring. that is the ultimate proof that whatever is on the outside is not critical to what race we belong to. we all belong to the human race.
* there has not been any serious anthropologist for close to a century that doubted either theoretically or after analysis of the fossil record that humans arose in africa. this latest discovery seems to show also that the first real humans developed in africa. to state otherwise is to ignore or be ignorant of, the science involved. in fact, every other alleged “homo ???” has in fact been shown to be much younger and therefore most likely derivative from predecessors who had left africa.
* let’s accept that the old testament is historical in at least some elements. slavery has been around at least that long. every ancient civilization had slaves. it was one way for the conquerors to recoup the cost of war: slaves did the hard work of rebuilding. it is also true that african tribes had slaves for the same reasons as other tribes. when egyptians, greeks, romans, europeans, whoever, came looking for workers, the tribes sold their african slaves. the point is that slavery is an ancient practice and it may be fair to say that most (all?) civilizations have a “slavery chapter” in their history. many roman slaves were in fact well educated greeks, enslaved to teach romans art and history and other scholarly subjects.
* i always find it amusing that light skin is the result of a genetic mutation that allowed humans to inhabit cold, dry climates with long periods of limited sunshine.
* while i can agree in general that ‘race’ is more sociological than scientific, at least as applied to humans, i do wish that mr muwakkil had gotten the science facts right. his failure to do so, cast doubt on the correctness of rest of the article.
Posted by tom on Jun 23, 2003 at 10:43 PM Ah yes, science and genes. Liberals (a label I wear myself, though you wouldnít know it from my ìracistî opinions) like to point to the fact that blacks and whites are 99% the same in genetic makeup. They neglect to tell us that humans and chimps are 98% the same. Obviously that one percent allows a lot of room for difference. Liberals can be as selective in their arguments as Rush Limbaugh. I believe the latest science, according to Dr. Steven Pinker, of M.I.T., who is sort of a national guru on the subject and who has been trashed by liberals for his discoveries that racial groups are somewhat genetically different, is that genes are responsible for tendencies, but no one is fated to act in a predetermined way. Personally, I think there is much left for science to discover. Genes are far from the last word.
But look, this is not really my point, which is: difference does not mean inferior. Difference is not to be feared, it is required to make this world the kind of place we want it to be. The concept of inferior should be banned. We whites of European ancestry are like the aliens in a science fiction story who so dazzled the Earthlings with their advanced technology that most converted to the alien belief system. Later, Earth people found out the alien way was totally unsuited for this planet, with tragic consequences. We have dazzled the world with our technology, which could only have been produced by the intense materialistic striving which characterizes the belief system Arnold Toynbee called Westernism. But beyond filling our stomachs, which it does very well, Westernism doesnít work as well as the methods of ìprimitiveî cultures to produce the truly basic things we desire: happiness; a delight in living; a connection to the transcendent. The only way blacks and whites will ever meet as equals is for Westernists to abandon their cultural imperialism, stop forcing blacks to accept materialistic striving as the holy grail of existence or be labeled inferior, and discover that the Africansóand all the third world culturesóhave at least as much to teach us as we have to teach them.
As a practical matter, we liberals wonít ever get the people to believe we are anything but evil as long as we keep pressing on them the belief that all races are the same and calling them names when they say otherwise. Ordinary Americans all have eyes and in this one area, the liberals seem to have mostly theories.
Posted by James on Jun 24, 2003 at 12:38 AM This information only corroborates my lifelong fundamental belief that there is no such thing as race. I am a genetic mix of American Indian, East Indian, Dutch, Scillian, Guyanese and Scot. These are the nationalities of My Great Grand Parents, My Grand parents and my parents. Due to the early death of my mother and seperation from my father: I was raised by my Hindu, (later Catholic) Grandmother, who maintained that we were born caucasians. As you may imagine, I have encountered many people, through the years, who were quite disturbed by my person--even to the point of trying to physically harm me. I’ve had people threaten my wellbeing if I did not decide “what side of the color line” I was on. People have been confused by my looks to the point where I’ve had co-workers and employers demand to know “What are you?” Personally, I’ve never thought of myself in terms of a color or a race. I’ve always thought of my self as uniquely American and have never identified myself as having a race. Growing up - Whites, Blacks and Hispanics in my neighborhood never accepted me. There were no other Native Americans, nor East Indians around so there wasn’t much bonding with a particular race. My friends were other racial outcasts like me and we didn’t live in racial terms until being entered into the Catholic school system. The only time race came into my personal picture was upon contact with official, governmental or professional institutions. All applications (for jobs. colleges, etc.) have a “What is your race?” question. The Race demographic seems to be very important to the “powers that be”
for many political and economic reasons. For the last 5-600 years, in America, race has been used as a powerful tool to maintain control of the masses. What this information does is expose the fact that millions of people have been hoodwinked into thinking of themselves as a “minority” or something less than equal because their skin has color. This information will not be embraced by those in control who want to maintain the status quo. But now that the truth has been scientifically documented perhaps this will engender a shift in the way we as human beings concepualize our ourselves not as many races but as one totally human race. My fight is over- the race war is over-now the real battle begins! To accept the truth !!
Posted by Leonora Moran on Jun 24, 2003 at 1:05 AM While there may not be a difference between people gentically, there is no denying that there are differences between peoples cultures and those people are brought up differently. I believe that the differences that appear in people come from their environment growing up. There is a reason why Jewish/Asian/Black/any other minority people are more likely to have certain jobs or become certain things.
Posted by Brad on Jun 24, 2003 at 11:21 AM If “race” does not exist, how can anyone use “race” in consideration of applications? When universities use “race” in acceptance, are they supporting a concept of “race?”
Posted by James Howard on Jun 25, 2003 at 6:29 AM If “race” does not exist, how can anyone use “race” in consideration of applications? When universities use “race” in acceptance, are they supporting a concept of “race?”
Posted by James Howard on Jun 25, 2003 at 6:30 AM Ted, perhaps thinking would be a good change of pace to consider. While what you said is technically true- “drug laws affect blacks much more than they do whites”. Yes, the LAWS effect blacks more than whites, but they do not commit the crime more. In NY anyway there is a far higher percentage of white people using drugs than black people. Yet there are far more black people in jail for drug related charges than white people. But of course, the system is fair right? It’s those darn lazy blacks that just need to get off the crack and get a job. Our society is wonderfully equal with no prejudice, racism, or bigotry. Wake up. Society targets blacks and poor people to be the scapegoats. Whites commit just as much crime, white color crime costs far more than any other and yet we don’t care. Let’s not blame the victim, or continue to treat the symptoms and fix the cause.
Posted by Toby Fraser on Jun 25, 2003 at 7:39 AM Toby, I really don’t believe whites in NY use illegal drugs at a higher percentage than blacks. Do you really think there are more blacks in jail on drug-related charges because of racism? Do you think the police just allow whites to use and sell drugs then prosecute blacks for the same thing? I know that’s a popular excuse but it’s pretty far-fetched.
Posted by Ted on Jun 25, 2003 at 8:21 AM Excellent stuff, There is now DNA evidence that adds Adam to the Eve of Africa . Now we can account for the X and the Y of the matter.No pun.
Posted by Nana Kwaw Mensah on Jun 25, 2003 at 9:20 PM Racists these days are a cleverer breed than those in the past. They dress up their criticisms of coloured people by invoking selective statistics and playing on societies fears of the unknown. One example of this is with the British BNP, a racist party through and through that has supported violent attacks against coloureds in the past. These days they claim to be a ‘multi-cultural party’ yet in their literature and meetings the same old racist outpourings crop up. The ‘flood’ of immigration and ‘state handouts to minorities’ are used to attract votes from ignorant disaffected white voters. Criticism is fine but why cant you see that black or asians and others are not even a homogenous people. The genetic and environmental variation is much greater within such a population than between the different populations. You cannot pigeonhole black behaviour because some members of that community may be criminals. Yes environment plays a big part. Look at Russia, it is full of bribes, smuggling , drugs and other violent crimes. I dont see any blacks being responsible for that. The colour of the skin doesnt make a jot of difference and you racists just cant accept that.
Posted by Garse on Jun 26, 2003 at 3:21 AM While the police ignoring the white druggies may be part of the problem, it’s more of them targeting the poor (ie mainly black-for many reasons) communities. It’s not me making up some random thing. There have been gov. studies done about NY, mainly because of the Rockefeller Drug laws that show that there are more white people using drugs than minority, and yet 94% of the people locked up for 15yrs-life are minorities. I guess all I can do is point to a quote for the cops themselves: ‘As Chicago Police Department Narcotics Division Chief stated in 1990, “There is as much cocaine in the Stock Exchange as there is in the black community. But those guys are harder to catch. Those deals are done in office buildings, in somebody’s home, and there is not the violence associated with it that there is in the black community. But the guy standing on the corner, he’s almost got a sign on his back. These guys are just arrestable.”
Posted by Toby Fraser on Jun 26, 2003 at 2:50 PM I am a 20 year old student, very interested in genetics and the much-hated “sociobiology”, recently renamed evolutionary psychology. Since moving away from my very racist, Southern upbringing, I have contimplated where I stand on the issue of race. I began from a moral standpoint, but have found that from an evolutionary, biological veiwpoint, arguments tend to be more objective and less based on personal experience or “learned” behavior.
There is obviously great genetic variation from person to person, as this is the most fundamental contribution to the success of a species. Beyond differences in our skin color and facial features, we are alike enough to be ONE solidary species. Ability to interbreed and produce fertile children is met. Just as there are members of the same species on differenet continents that appear very different to the human eye, races developed due to seperation of groups of humans for long periods of time. Although there is some merit to light skin/blue eyes being an adaptation to less sunny/colder climates, many contemporary evolutionists believe that race differences could not have evolved as quickly as they did due to adaptation alone. Instead, small differences in groups of people were accentuated by sexual selection. So, although races are able to interbreed, most people have historically either not made contact with people outside their race, or have chosen to only reproduce with people that look like themselves.
I’m not sure what, if anything, this contributes to the argument, but these are just my own thoughts. (continuted)
Posted by Amanda Bell on Jun 27, 2003 at 2:16 PM (continuted from above)
My conclusions in progress are that races MAY have some genetic differences beyond skin color/facial feature, but they are not the kind of monumental differences required to justify the state of racism in the world. I believe that given the exact same circumstances (not just economic, education, and family life, but more subtle things such as a teacher’s response or a stranger’s glance) that two people of two different races would be almost exatly identical in intelligence, morality, criminality, etc. Where to go from here, I do not know, and it would be nonsensical for me to propose a solution when greater minds than mine have been stumped so. I have decided, however, in my own personal life, to be aware of the causes of incidents that I find exciting racism within myself. I have discovered that through such a simple recognition, I am able to accept all people, their differnces, their talents, their shortcomings, their love, and their potential - independantly of the race with which they are identified. For me, it is a start.
Posted by Amanda Bell on Jun 27, 2003 at 2:19 PM will someone please tell me what it means to be white? what is white culture? and i don’t mean european culture, i mean white culture. white people bear children out of wedlock, do drugs, sell drugs, and murder each other everyday, but this is what i hear being described as black. white people project their problems onto black people, and ignore what’s going on in there own back yard. there was a study done by SUNY-Buffalo about domestic violence. the reseachers defined domestic violence as battering intended to cause serious physical injury. 92% of white female respondents said that such domestic violence was directed against them, their mothers, and/or sisters, either in their birth households or in later relationships. 62% of black women reported the same thing. white people are not literally white (the color of a piece of paper), so it must be that they are figuratively white, meaning pure, innocent, clean, etc. and one can look at history and see that white people are neither innocent (slavery, the KKK, genocide committed against the indians, jim crow, etc.) nor pure.
Posted by Jason on Jul 1, 2003 at 8:03 AM “all the third world cultures—have at least as much to teach us as we have to teach them.”
Utter nonsense.
On another page on this web site you will find a bitter excoriation of America because they have not provided anti-HIV drugs to the third world for free. What can the third world teach western culture about mitigating the expansion of HIV and and granting longer life to those already infected?
What can the third world teach western civilization about growing enough food to sustain population and health?
What can the third world teach western civilization about sanitation and clean drinking water?
What can the third world teach the west about free immigration and limitless opportunities for education?
Posted by Nus on Jul 1, 2003 at 3:34 PM Limitless education? Coming from the (keyword) industrialised nation with 44 million adults that can’t read at a fourthgrade level (National Adult Literacy Survey 1992, US Dept. of Ed.)? I see your sense of irony is intact.
Posted by jan on Jul 2, 2003 at 9:27 AM toby, nice statement about the “availibility” of arresting street dealers and the difficulty of arresting “wall street coke heads.” along those lines, i’ve spent the last few years in st. louis, arguably, one of the most segregated cities in the united states. watching the news one evening, there was an interview with the rock hill (a suberb in st. louis) police chief that attempted to confront the problem of racial profiling and the number of arrests in that particular area. the chief stated that the arrest rate, racially, was “50% white and 50% african american,” thus, racial profiling - statistically - “doesn’t exist.” what he neglected to mention was that the population ratio of rock hill, whites to african americans, was around 95% to 5%, respectively. to conclude, america just puts way too many people in prison for asinine reasons (profit).
Posted by phil on Jul 2, 2003 at 11:59 AM Does anyone here actually believe that whites (or any other group or race) would behave differently if they were living in the same conditions as the blacks are today??
In the part of Sydney I live in the racial divide lies within lebanese or arabic people. I am of Italian and I am accepted by both the anglos and the arabic people. I have noticed that people’s attitudes and way of thinking reflects where they live and what sort of conditions they grew up in rather than their racial background ( i.e. Arabic people growing up in predomanatly Anglo areas act like Anglos and Anglos growing up in predonminately Arabic areas act like Arabs. I have not seen evidence that would prove my view universal
Posted by tristan crisante on Jul 3, 2003 at 12:48 AM As-Salaam-Alaikum
I’m writing to see if you are the
Slim Muwakkil that use to work for
Muhammad Speaks Newspaper? if so
I use to work with you my name is
Babatunde Abdullah and my e-mail
address is
Posted by Babatunde K. Abdullah on Jul 3, 2003 at 4:22 AM I just think it is so racist to blame all of black people’s problems on white people; period. Sure, no one is saying tha blacks don’t have it easy, but is that any different than a poor white person? They have to get over the same hurdles, except black people always use the excuse—they’re racist; the white man is keeping me down.....
Well, i’m poor, i’m in debt over my head to pay for college, but I got a masters in Psychology… without blaming anyone.... I don’t see the barriers that stop black people from getting an education at school that I didn’t face.....
Tell me, what do poor black people face that poor white people DON’T face in the effort to get through highschool?
They face the same FINANCIAL challenges.
And that’s why I find Affirmative Action to be inherently racist. It gives blacks (& hispanic & NA) an advantage over ANY OTHER RACE—just because of the color of their skin—not because of any actual merit.... THIS IS RACIST.
If black and white poor people face the same challenges, why don’t white people benefit from affirmative action? Why does it target something that one was ascribed to at birth, and one has no control over, & and not factors that actually affect education?
Beacuse the policy is nothing but racist.
AA could benefit RICH black people --- they went to private schools, educated paents, wealth,… yet because they’re black they get 20points.
Why? How are THEY disadvantaged?
They’re not, but they benefit from this racist policy.
Posted by buffy on Jul 5, 2003 at 5:06 AM I agree
The policy IS racist, as it targets things people are born with, but not anything one has actually done.
I too am poor, and had to work hard to pay for college.... and I see no “barrier” that POOR black people face that I face.
If we are both poor, are we not disadvantaged equally? Then why do blacks get affirmative action, yet poor non-black/hispanic/na people get bonus points?
What about poor asians, lebanese/middle eastern… or any poor people regardlesss of race?
Poor people period get screwed—no matter which race, but only blacks benefit from racist affirmative action....... This has to stop because it sends the message that all white people are rich; all blacks are poor.... and that whites do not face any challenges in getting into college.
Well I work 2 jobs, and study full time. Why don’t I get any bonus points?
Exaclty.
Posted by jackson on Jul 5, 2003 at 5:13 AM Jackson and Buffy,
While I agree that poor people get royally screwed no matter how much melanin they have, I disagree with the rest. You’re doing exactly what the “establishment” wants you to...pitting poor against poor, downtrodden against downtrodden. Rather than get mad and cynical about the efforts of some to lessen discrimination, why not recognize that some people have it worse than you (as bad as you have it), and work with them for the benefit of all? All I ask, before you think I’m really stupid and just don’t get how much it sucks to be poor is, would you really prefer to trade places? Do black people have it just so much better than a poor white person that you would give anything to be black in America? Lastly, I’d just like to mention that America is the most segregated country in the history of the world, with one exception...South Africa during apartheid. That really stirs the patriotism I’m sure.
Posted by Toby Fraser on Jul 8, 2003 at 12:31 PM “Limitless education? Coming from the (keyword) industrialised nation with 44 million adults that can’t read at a fourthgrade level (National Adult Literacy Survey 1992, US Dept. of Ed.)? I see your sense of irony is intact.”
I fail to see any irony other than the fact that possibly, unless you read a different report than I, you failed to comprehend this report.
Let me quote to you from that very study: “40 to 44 million of the 191 million adults in the United States - demonstrated skills in the lowest level of prose, document, and quantitative literacy proficiencies (NALS literacy Level 1). For example, they were able to total an entry on a deposit slip, locate the time and place of a meeting on a form, and identify a piece of specific information in a brief news article.”
This is the lowest level of proficiency. Do you actually believe that these tasks are within the ability of a fourth grader?
The opportunity is there. Whether any or all or some avail themselves of this opportunity does not mean it is not.
Any person, white or black or brown or yellow can walk into almost any library in the US and access the internet for free. They can sit down and read books and newspapers for free at absolutely every library
Here is another opportunity - you can read the study you misquoted at this address:
www.nifl.gov/nifl/facts/NALS.html
As I said - unlimited.
Posted by Nus on Jul 9, 2003 at 2:25 PM Nus,
If you happen to be the proud parent of a fourthgrader who cannot locate the time and place of a meeting on a form I feel pretty glad I’m not swimming in your gene pool…
Posted by jan on Jul 9, 2003 at 3:57 PM The point is that ANONE can access libraries, books, the internet, and actually learn to read.
But instead, people don’t even atempt to read, and remain ignorant, and blame everyone else for their own problems.
It’s time people took responsibility for their own actions… instead of blaming ‘society’ for their own ignorance.
If can’t read, don’t blame white people for your own ignorance.
They’re not stopping you from reading.... you are stopping yourself.
Posted by jackson on Jul 11, 2003 at 9:23 PM I understand that. My point was that like it or not, the 44 million figure is appalling for an industrialised nation, when others have the same resources as the US (libraries, books, internet) and don’t seem to be turning out functional illiterates at nearly as high a rate.
Posted by jan on Jul 13, 2003 at 3:36 AM This article ignores the fact that archaic views of race are being perpetuated by Blacks as well as Whites. For example, the family of O.J. Simpson claimed that his children belonged with them because they are “black.”
Posted by Dr. Glenn King on Jul 16, 2003 at 12:12 PM America has to stop comparing blacks and whites, as if their the only two races on the Earth. Asians and Natives from Mexico and Central America are comprising a greater percentage of the population and they should not be ignored.
Posted by James on Jul 20, 2003 at 7:12 PM Wow. It sounds like almost of none of you have actually watched the documentary. In fact, the racist arguments I’m reading here sound no better than what I’d hear at the local tractor pull. I’d have thought people who read this magazine had more intelligence than this. Thanks for teaching me a lesson in bias and prejudice.
Posted by Lisa on Jul 21, 2003 at 8:59 PM Considering that Hoover and the FBI destroyed the cream of the nation’s black leadership in the 60s - leaving African Americans with, ho hum, the inconsequential Jesse Jackson Jr. - I find it astonishing that anyone would try to blame blacks for their current circumstances.
In the 60s, powerful whites sent African Americans a message: try to do anything to improve your circumstances and we will kill you. Down went Medgar Evers, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, and Fred Hampton.
The Kennedy assassination may also have been prompted by racial hatred. More than one person who was alive at the time remembers that, when they news of the assassination came through, they overheard someone make a remark like “that nigger lover got what he deserved.” That sent future Democratic presidents a message too: try to do anything for black people and we will kill you too. (Am I the only person who has noticed that, although improving their black vote is the one way the Dems can win at the polls - the Dems consistently do best when black voters turn out in force - the Dems never actually offer its black constituency anything?)
That doesn’t leave African Americans with a whole lot of leverage.
Posted by Carl Wernerhoff on Jul 22, 2003 at 8:07 PM “The basic conflict now in America is between her people and her government and much of the hostility between whites and blacks is a result of the government’s practice of reducing democracy to the level of nonsense in order to raise big business to the level of government. Spurred on by these money merchants black and white American’s alike sell their souls to the most attractive devil; and the people of whatever race that are riotous and discontent all over America are people who have resurected themselves and are asking for their souls back.” -Hal Bennet “Lord of Dark Places”
Posted by L on Jul 23, 2003 at 1:35 PM I couldn’t agree more. And what amazes me even further, I actually understand that. And I’m only seventeen! We all did come from the same place, so why did ‘races’ even start? Seems pointless to me..
Posted by Luke on Dec 15, 2003 at 8:15 PM Page 1 of 1 pages -
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