I know I should be mortified by the lobbyist-organized mobs of angry Brooks Brothers mannequins who are now making headlines by shutting down congressional town hall meetings. I know I should be despondent during this, the Khaki Pants Offensive in the Great American Healthcare and Tax War. And yet, I’m euphorically repeating one word over and over again with a big… return to article
-
subscribe to print magazine
-
email this article to a friend
-
Reader Comments (29)Page 1 of 1 pages“Advocates of capitalism are very apt to appeal to the sacred principles of liberty, which are embodied in one maxim: The fortunate must not be restrained in the exercise of tyranny over the unfortunate.” (B. Russell)
Demos (http://www.demos.org/inequality/numbers.cfm) shows that the top 10% makes roughly 90% of US income, and that the top 1% owns roughly 40% of stock. Where specifically did you get your data?
Posted by James Rolko on Aug 8, 2009 at 5:23 PM That is just how rich people are. they want everyone else who is poor to die…or stay poor. They want to horde all the resources for themselves and dont want to waste them on ‘lesser’ beings
Posted by Sarah Shane on Aug 9, 2009 at 1:46 AM It seems to me, that ever since (Pres. Rat) Reagan told us that our greed was good: We’re entitled, We’re ‘special’ (We’re Americans!), we’ve been in moral decline. What had been the turf of only the rich, could now be Ours! Whoopeee!
How else do you explain today’s under-class (kid working at the video store down the street) Republicans? They seem to have this grand delusion that one day, they will jetee’ off with the rich and famous, leaving their powerless and impoverished beginnings far behind. So, they continue to vote against their own (real) best interests.
The lack of Americans prepared to discuss the topic is blatantly evidenced right here, as there are so few comments. Problem? What problem? Hmmmmm….
Posted by wanzellarts on Aug 10, 2009 at 6:14 AM I have watched all the coverage and ti is fair to say the the right wing coverage (FOXincludes everything the left wing coverage has but the left wing coverage (MSNBC NY TIMES Etc) clearly omits much of the damning factors about the media maipulation going on here.
MOst people are genuine in their feawr and distrust of the government and these health care meetings are bring the chikens home to roost.
Posted by tgtg on Aug 10, 2009 at 7:43 PM I am sorry to be so blunt, but it is an absolute lie that all or most of the townhall protesters are selfish rich people.
From what I have seen, they are mostly retired are near retirement middle and low income seniors who are terrified that the half-trillion marked to be pulled from an already underfunded Medicare program to fund universal care - will hit them unfairly.
All while Obama is talking about cutting unnecessary and wasteful treatments for old people.
“Tell her she doesn’t need that pace-maker - she can just go take a pill.”
Posted by Parker1227 on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:06 PM I think it would be very nice if the wealthy would stop grabbing for my limited money, and pay up with theirs.
Could we start with George Soros?
And, then Ted Kennedy?
And then Senator Kerry? John Edwards?
Thank You
Posted by Bill Sanford on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:18 PM Please…..Please…..Please…...can you all please concentrate on spending and creating your own stuff instead of taking from others? Please stop your whining, snivel about how the rich dont deserve what they have and you are justified in taking it….you are not….it is theft…......you are dead wrong.
Healthcare is not a “Right”. It is a product. It is a good. It is a service. You have to buy it. Not take it or steal it.
Posted by keydet84 on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:29 PM Hey PArker 1227
I’m on your side…I have been on this earth long enough to know that the people in the videos are for real.. Oh I suppose there could be some hard core opliticos in the crowd but SO WHAT…Obama’s claim to fame is Comunity Organizing..In fact the White House is organizing against people who agree with us on this…
.The SEIU, famous for top down organizing which in and of itself is illegal will fill buses and drive the rank and file to an event and it is above media scrutiny BUT If one well dressed white guy says something about not wanting to pay more taxes he is a racist or is said to be working for the Insurance company.
I think Nancy Pelosi wnet too far and I thinnk Obama has overplayed his hand unless they are willing to start beating people up the way unions always do
I am a little afraid of the possibilities here which is why I am going to Washington in September. This administration has to hear us on this…
Posted by tgtg on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:32 PM Hey Sirota,
You want to play the smallest violin??? Well guess what. Here is a towel… Your heart is bleeding all over the place. Use the towel to clean yourself up.Bam told you to DRINK the Kool Aid, not BATHE in it.
This article is utter trash. I suppose this author thinks the rich ought to be taxed at an even higher rate so that they are forced to pay for poor people’s mortgages (which they should never have applied for nor been given), their health insurance and medical care (which they need a lot of because they live at Burger King), their food, their education (yeah right), and their automobile. Of course I find this to be an insult, and I make less than $50,000 per year!!! Although, I have NEVER asked the government or my neighbor to pay my rent, buy my perscriptions, pay for a semester of college, or to help me purchase a car, AND THEN bitched and complained when the rich people footing all these bills said “enough is enough”.
Hey Sarah Shane… Rich people want everyone else to die??
GET OVER YOURSELF. You want to insult people who you don’t know like that, well guess what?? You’re a joke to us too. Have fun shopping at K-Mart the rest of your life. I am sure your wedding at your high school gym will be spectacular.
You are a moron of epic proportions. Rich people donate more to charity than your pathetic ass ever will, AND YOU KNOW IT.
They also HIRE people, CREATE jobs, and then PAY people to do them. This needs to be explained to you??? How old are you, 12?“You don’t bring up the poor by bringing down the rich”
—Abraham LincolnOn this website, the eternal whine of liberal victimhood is playing lound and clear.
What arrogant, condescending liberals, who think they know best, will scream at you… “Utopia, equal outcome, and free money for those who really don’t deserve it!!”
What you should say… “Get a fu**ing life, take your hands out of my wallet, and learn to live without Uncle Sam paying your way, you lazy shit.”Hey Sirota… Can you send me some money??? And please don’t complain like a Brooks Brothers manequin. Actually, how about you just give me your card and PIN number, that works better for me.
Posted by Chris Richards on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:40 PM And here I thought, judging by Sirota’s title (The Me First Screw Everyone Else Crowd) he was referring to members of congress who would never, ever give up their special health insurance plan for the wonderful plan Sirota says the rest of us will get, and want.
Why don’t we simply expand Medicare to cover the uninsured? If it turns out that, for the first time in history, the government is actually efficient at something, everyone will want to join. In the meantime it will cost the rest of us, the taxpayers, a vastly lesser amount.
Posted by D Beids on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:46 PM Only the socialist and the slave owner think they have the right to the fruit of other people’s labor.
What you advocates of change have forgotten is that people will fight to defend their freedom. If wishing to live free is selfish than I, along with the patriots who created this country, am guilty.
Posted by James Johnson on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:52 PM The author completely misses the point in this debate. To him, this is a matter of morals - he believes the wealthy have an obligation to care for the poor. People with this perspective typically cannot be made to see that governmental enforcement of their view leads to a destruction of the basic economic incentives in society. But that is an aside.
The primary consideration here is what to do (if anything) about the 15% of Americans who have no health insurance. Before we decry that number (and it sounds a lot worse when we say “45 million”), we need to understand from where this number comes. Most typically assume that it comes from the poor. This is one of the reasons for lack of coverage, but the very poor have Medicaid available. Another assumption is that most have medical conditions that prevent them from obtaining insurance (and many are in this situation). However, the great majority of these 45 million (probably as many as 30 million) make good incomes and simply don’t want to pay what health insurance costs. To be sure, the line is blurry between “can’t afford” and “can afford but don’t want to pay the cost” since incomes run over a continuous spectrum, but this hardly seems a sufficient crisis to upend the entire health care system for 255 million Americans.
Why don’t we simply address ways to extend coverage to the non-Medicaid poor and the uninsurable (and possibly ways to help out those who feel the price is too high) rather than disrupt the whole thing? Isn’t that the common sense approach? Doesn’t it address the author’s moralistic view as well? If so, then why decry those opposing the current large-scale planning as “me first, screw everyone else”? Sure, no doubt some in opposition ARE greedy, but let’s not paint everyone with the same brush. This is simplistic thinking to address a complex problem.
Posted by boyydz on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:53 PM I would qualify as part of the “Brooks Brothers” crowd, though I haven’t gone to any of the protests.
I was born in a lower middle-class household and had to work hard to get out of there. I spent years working full time while going to school at night, postponing things like marriage, buying a house, a nice car, etc. while avoiding stupid mistakes like living beyond my means and piling up credit card debt by controlling my impulses. I have never cheated on my taxes, stolen from my neighbors or laughed at people because they are poor. I’ve had rough spots from time to time, but I’ve managed to avoid the big, life-altering stupid mistakes.
I’m not heartless. If I see children, the mentally handicapped or the elderly suffering or someone whose struggles are not of their own making and beyond their control, I’m willing to help out. But I also see nothing in my life that could not be duplicated or surpassed by the vast majority of people born in the United States. What I have difficulty with are the large numbers of people who could’ve made different choices in their lives and been part of the solution rather than part of the problem.
It is not “Me First, Screw Everyone Else”... it’s just “Screw People Who Chose To Struggle”. I’m more than happy to help everyone else.
Posted by Victor X on Aug 10, 2009 at 8:59 PM A very slick attempt to cloud the issue by including Social Security and Medicare contributions into the tax calculation. As you are well aware SS and Medicare are not taxes but contributions to be returned to the contributor latter in life. Of course you ignore the fact that “the” rich who earn 36 % of all income also create the jobs for all those not living off the efforts of others (govt employees, welfare recipients, etc…) by investing their capital into businesses thru either the stock market or starting their own business. If you want to identify the percentage of the population who are greedy lets look at the 43% who pay no federal income tax whatsoever but scream like a little baby if the growth rate of their dole payment is reduced. It is a crime and a threat to our nation that 43% of those who earn a paycheck pay no federal taxes at all, nada, zilch, nothing….why would they have any incentive to cut down on wasteful spending as they don’t contribute at all as it is. “The problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of the other guy’s money.” Margaret Thatcher
Posted by Dalelama on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:03 PM Evil is when you decide you know how other people should live, and then force them to do so.
Charity is when you give of yourself or the fruit of your own labors to help the less fortunate. It is not noble, or even moraly defensible, to force people to give. The name for that is tryany.
Posted by James Johnson on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:12 PM THE FACTS
From the Department of the Treasury
Office of Public Affairs-Top 5% of taxpayers paid 53.8 percent of all indv income tax, but only made 30.6% of income.
-Top 1% of taxpayers paid 33.7.
-Taxpayers in the top 50% paid over 96% of the total.
The bottom 50% paid 3.6 percent of total income tax. When these deadbeats contribute more I’ll be a little more generous.
Posted by EastVillageGOP on Aug 10, 2009 at 9:13 PM I apparently agree with a lot of the other posters who think the writer “doesn’t have a clue” as to the pulse of the country right now. I’m not rich so I won’t comment on that diversion.
As the facts that have been posted in response show.. almost half of the people in the Country DO NOT PAY TAXES. I know I’m paying MY FAIR SHARE!!! Now if someone wants health care then they can do like me and get a job and pay for it themselves. I have a family, a mortgage, I pay for my families health care through my job and I pay taxes… I DON’T BELIEVE IT’s MY JOB to PROVIDE FREE HEALTH CARE to someone else. I’m not rich.. I’m an average joe.. right smack dab in the MIDDLE of the tax brackets.. and there are ALOT of us who feel this way.
You can call us names all you want.. but in reality that only ticks us off. Those of you who believe this is some “faux outrage” “lobbyist organized mob” are going to be in for a very rude awakeing.. this is a VERY BIG movement! When hard working people can’t pay their bills and face losing everything and then are insulted and asked to pay more… WE AREN’T GOING TO TAKE IT!! I promise you that!!!
Furthermore, I think you will find that if you run the wealth creators out of this country… all you will be left with is the dependents.. who will pay for your social programs then? 99% being pulled by the 1%.. “who is the REAL Me First Screw Everyone Else” crowd?
Sirota next time you are looking in a mirror… you’ll find your title.
Posted by JonKs on Aug 10, 2009 at 10:00 PM You can whine about the fact that a small percentage of people get a large percent of the world’s work done. The “rich” are the entrepreneurs who work harder and risk more, and create your jobs in the process. It can be genuinely fun and rewarding to create jobs. It is also fraught with hurdles, some erected by business competitors and others erected by government. If you overcome all those hurdles, there’s often nice remuneration at the other end of all the hard work and risk.
You can whine about how you are more deserving of these material rewards than the entrepreneur who creates, who risks, and whose talents create your job. But when you whine too hard, when your demands seem to onerous to me, I may just stop working as hard. I may just stop making investments that create jobs. I may turn my labors into my hobbies. You can go find another job, because I’m not hiring. I’m buying a big boat and heading into the sunset. If you think I’m saying “screw everybody else” when I bitch about your taxes, imagine how loud my “screw everybody else” sounds when I’m heading for that sunset and you’re without a job.
What troubles you is that you have one vote in our democracy, but I have many votes. I vote every day because I am an entrepreneur. I either vote to create a job for you, or I vote not to. Your name calling doesn’t really persuade me. Sorry, but you’ll have to work a little harder and earn some more votes before you earn my respect.
You can whine that you failed microeconomics. Here’s a refresher. It’s not YOUR decision when I reach MY “enough is enough” point and face the setting sun, backside to you. It’s MY decision when I’ve reached MY “enough is enough” point. Me first. Can you see my backside? Good, because you’re going to see a lot more of it.
Posted by breserve on Aug 10, 2009 at 10:08 PM Be a denier. There’s a way the world works. You can either accept it or whine about it.
You have to treat liberals like teenagers. When the teenager gets self-indulgent that the Motorola cell phone you gave him isn’t good enough and he *needs* an iPhone, you tell him “you take what I give you and be happy about it.” So chill out, take all that I give you, and be happy about it.
Posted by breserve on Aug 10, 2009 at 10:43 PM One poster here goes off about his (or her) “taking the risk”, and “working hard”. Clearly, he’s never read about the brown slaves we work half to death and expose to disease-causing chemicals, daily, in order to enjoy relatively cheap food.
And, didn’t he read about the black slaves in a southern fried chicken joint, who were burned alive, as the “hard-working”, “risk-taking” slave owner broke with fire safety regulations by locking up the back door, to protect his precious profits? Clearly not. Fortunately, that pig now rots in prison, his accumulated fortune divided among the survivors of his victims.
But then, if our defensive poster were well read, he wouldn’t be a pompous, self-righteous barbarian, would he? He doesn’t know because he doesn’t want to know. He and the other selfish pigs trying to justify their boorish behavior and false sense of self-entitlement here (hallmarks of post-Reagan America), are a disgrace to all humanity.
Posted by wanzellarts on Aug 11, 2009 at 5:03 AM What a load of drivel! Ringo Starr got it right when he said “Everything the government touches turns to S***.” Apparently Mr. Sirota hasn’t gotten the message. The U.S. government is already in debt over ten TRILLION dollars, and is set to go almost another two trillion in debt this year alone, but that’s not enough, oh no, not nearly enough for the likes of the “Kill American Healthcare” crowd.
Canada, Britain, and Australia all have government-run healthcare, and people there wait months for routine care AND are told that if they’re seriously ill, their only option is to die. We DON’T need that here in the United States.
And, just for the record, I’m not rich; in fact, I’m 60 years old, deeply in debt, and have no prospect for retiring. But I DON’T want health care flushed down the toilet by letting the government get its evil hands on it.
Posted by adaptune on Aug 11, 2009 at 1:47 PM @ wanzellarts: The hundreds of employees whose professional careers I helped launch would disagree with you. They’d sign up for that disgraceful oppression all over again. If all you can offer is to call me names, then I think your argument, such as it is, fails.
When you raise the price of work, please explain why I wouldn’t work less. Will you physically force me to work to pay for your programs? Show me the historical evidence of when that strategy worked.
You see, everything coming out of Washington comes with a big price tag. Paying for these things requires the ongoing consent of people like me who pay for the bulk of government services. They all hinge upon the notion that people like me can be shackled to their work, creating companies that create jobs and investment earnings that ultimately feed the machine.
I’m trying to understand why seeking an answer to that fundamental question becomes self-righteous, barbaric, and pompous.
Posted by breserve on Aug 11, 2009 at 3:04 PM Universal Health Care:
POSITIVES: a humane thing to do; may have some long-run economic benefits; we can’t keep going as we have been as it will bankrupt the country
NEGATIVES: it costs a lot and we may not have that money right now; a vast expansion of government with increased involvement in everyday, personal decisions; may have some long-run costs
ABOUT THE POSITIVES:
Whether or not it is the humane thing to do, there is some disagreement. Helping children, the elderly, the handicapped and the recently unemployed (temporarily) seems humane and would likely be easily passed. Helping those who could help themselves but don’t bother, providing for people who are here illegally or whose ailments are due to illegal activity, or who bring problems upon themselves through poor life choices is less clear in the minds of the American electorate.
I like the President’s plan to modernize medical record-keeping for patients’ histories and care and I can believe that this will show economic benefits long-term. I am unconvinced (as is the CBO) that other aspects of this plan will help economically.
I think most people agree that health care in the U.S. can’t continue on its current trajectory. SOMETHING has to change. But greater governmental involvement is only one path and other paths (including less governmental involvement, including Medicare, Medicaid, etc.) also exist. The fact that change is needed (and this would be change) is not in and of itself compelling.
ABOUT THE NEGATIVES:
A lot of people are upset with how the government intends to pay for this. Many people simply do not believe the White House when they say that only the very rich will be taxed. Others feel that even if this were true, it would be morally unjustifiable. The question they have is: “If you are able to work, why should someone else have to pay for your health care?” Or put another way, if your health insurance would cost $X per year, why can’t you cut other things out of your lifestyle and make at least a partial contribution to your own well-being?
People are also worried about a massive expansion of government. They see the White House’s involvement in AIG, CITI, Chrysler, and GM and again, they simply do not believe the Administration when they claim they are not trying to control your health decisions. Similarly, the quick passage of the stimulus package did not have the promised effect of keeping unemployment below 9% (this may not be Obama’s fault, but people heard his claim). Lost trust is a tough thing to overcome and the Obama administration is paying the price for it.
A large number of people are very concerned that health care will be rationed and that technological developments will be stunted. The former is addressed but perhaps not convincingly - particularly since Congress seems to be exempt from the bills they are considering. The latter is almost never addressed and people are again concerned.
CONCLUSION:
The health care debate is not about people being stupid, calloused, or racist. There are real, legitimate concerns that are not being addressed and it feels like a massive piece of legislation that no one has actually read is being rammed through Congress by the White House. Address these issues and you may convince some people.
Posted by Victor X on Aug 11, 2009 at 5:42 PM “If you are able to work, why should someone else pay for your health care?”
Let’s do the math for the US’s largest employee block (US Walmart slaves):
Salary…$7./hr., no benefitsMin. health insurance cost, no deducable, healthy single non-smoker over 30 yrs. old: $700./month.
Rent, utils., transportation to work, food…..Hmmmmmmm.
Willful indifference is the worst human trait, Victor.
Posted by wanzellarts on Aug 12, 2009 at 3:35 AM As for breserve…
You mention professionals here. I retired a professional, and enjoyed high earnings in the (rather glamorous, Hollywood) career of my choice for a good long time. Most aren’t so lucky. Most didn’t have specialized MDs for parents. Country clubs. Choices.
Take off your blinders, and you’ll see a disadvantaged majority that seems to have been trained to hate itself, by an advantaged minority.
Posted by wanzellarts on Aug 12, 2009 at 3:56 AM Efffective article , the points are well taken…The problem is that most Amerikans think that one day they will also be rich. This may happen , and one must also consider what ones definition of rich is , but the stats point in a different direction. The point is that most amerikans idenify with someone or something that they are not , this is not a good thing , too be sure. This false idenification of reality.
Secondly , most amerikans don’t understand that the few privileges that workers do enjoy,where fought for and won by so-called socialist workers party groups, that stood up too the robber barons of the past. Most working amerikans think that their rights are an amerikan phenom,but the truth is quite different , to be sure.
Thirdly , money management is not taught in the schools.The curriculm has to be changed to one that is more workable for the families of working people, and the understanding of what their needs are.
Posted by blackhorse on Aug 14, 2009 at 12:22 PM Workers rights are fluid as is the wealth they see and can not have.
If the workers gain too much power the state becomes the robber baron of the wealthy . If the owners gain too much power it will lead to the revolution which wlll inevitably becomne the state.Ruin by who in inevitably bwecome the Elites who will become some form of facist or worse
The rich against the poor is an old battle and we are seeing it here in living technocolor.
But so many who are screaming do not realize how rich they are and others do not realize how poor they are….
Fiscal responsibility is the answer and people need something to lose to be responsible for….
A lot of peo[ple have have lost everything and have nothing to lose and adding their voices to those who do not want to lose anymore quite a chorus is evolving ... this is gonna be a problem for the politicians
Posted by tgtg on Aug 14, 2009 at 3:41 PM Page 1 of 1 pages -
register a new account »Posting Security
Also by David Sirota
Popular Discussions
- The 9/11 Faith Movement
Many Americans believe 9/11 was a conspiracy by the U.S. government
1979 posts since Jul 11 06 - What’s the 411 on 9/11?
891 posts since Dec 21 05 - Democrats: It’s the War
659 posts since Nov 1 05 - Was the Presidential Election Stolen?
462 posts since Jun 19 06 - A Fundamental History Lesson
The rise of National Socialism proved politics and religion don't mix
427 posts since Oct 10 05
© 2009 In These Times | Reprint Policy | Privacy Policy | Powered by Expression Engine | RSS Feeds
