Page 1 of 3 pages 1 2 3 >
Notice the vast amount of conjecture, speculation and wild accusations in this flimsy excuse for a story. Which human rights advocates have voiced suspicions of murder? Was there an investigation? Was anyone charged? Why bring up wild allegations without substantiating at least the party voicing the suspicion? Is this what passes for journalism these days? You shold be ashamed.
Posted by Mike on Jan 27, 2003 at 10:17 PM
Your story on the “vigilantes” was ridiculous. Since when do Mexicans or anyone have the right to invade this country, bring in drugs, diseases, crime, and other problems, and then expect to be treated as though they were welcome? Illegals cost the American taxpayer billions and billions of dollars in education, medical, and other services. We don’t want you in our country and we have every right to protect our border and to eject you. The only reason there is no war between the US and Mexico over this invasion is because the government in this country is so thoroughly corrupt. But thank goodness there are still citizens who care enough about America to try and defend it from criminals. Don’t make the mistake of confusing Americans with the trash who rule us. They may not give a damn about this country, but there are many Americans who do.
Senior Bush is a one term president and we will make sure the next president kicks all the illegals out of America.
Posted by D. Hodson on Jan 28, 2003 at 2:27 AM
un documented? rubbish!! illegal alien!
look up vigilant,you asswipes
Posted by bad brain on Jan 28, 2003 at 3:19 AM
What the heck is an undocumented migrant? That sounds like a contradictation of terms. A migrant has documentation. Are you sure you don’t mean an illegal alien?
Mr.Grijalva has evidently never been to Dade County Florida
Posted by Ken on Jan 28, 2003 at 8:59 AM
Where can i join these groups to stop the cross borders incursions of illegals
Posted by viper on Jan 28, 2003 at 10:32 AM
These honest citizens have every right to defend themselves against the criminals that threaten and endanger our country and communities. Gang activity has become to increased, and our anti-gun, anti-constitutional laws have served only to disarm those who should be well-armed to defend themselves against the rising tide of crime. These militias represent America and the concerns of “the people” more than any politician ever has.
Posted by Frank on Jan 28, 2003 at 10:55 AM
R.M. Arrieta is not a patriot to our nation. Mr. Simcox is a true American who is interested in protecting our country. Since when do illegal immigrants have rights that trump personal property and civil rights of Americans?
Posted by Gary Buffon on Jan 28, 2003 at 10:58 AM
Simcox’s self-styled militia calls themselves exactly that. And they believe in their brand of “vigilante justice,” which is what Simcox himself has called it. And, as far as all this talk of “illegals” being “criminals,” I might point out that every recent analysis of the second amendment—of the Constitution—has demonstrated no right under our laws to form citizens’ militias, especially ones that intend to violently engage unarmed people… citizens or not. And when stalking out humanitarian water stations in one of the most lethal deserts in the country (which is what Simcox himself again says he intends to do), gun-toting yahoos quickly become human rights violators, driving immigrants (legal or not) to certain death.
But given the failure of most of the Nativist responses posted here to command “their” own English language, it might be too much to expect a rudimentary understanding of our country’s legal pillars, let alone a respect for human lives.
Posted by Brian on Jan 28, 2003 at 11:10 AM
Why does this phony little fraud “journalist” fail to mention all the MURDERS RAPES AND ROBBERIES COMMITTED BY ILLEGAL MEXICANS AGAINST AMERICANS WHO LIVE NEAR THE BORDER????
Why doesn’t this “journalist” write an article called “Armed and Dangerous” about the armed mexicans who rape rob and murder white people in the USA? Why does this pig forget to mention those crimes?
NEVER TRUST A FREEMASON, OR A FREEMASON-OWNED NEWSPAPER
Posted by Bob Chance on Jan 28, 2003 at 12:22 PM
Armed and Dangerous, Vigilantes terrorize migrants crossing the border.
Are the so called vigilantes really terrorizing ILLEGAL migrants?
How many ILLEGAL migrants are terrorizing us law abiding natural citizens of the United States? I don’t see Mexico fighting to keep their own citizens in Mexico. No, they are happy to put their burden on the United States citizens to feed, cloth, educate, etc… This so called vigilante groups should have started 50 years ago. No doubt we would have less problems right here at home. John De Marco Stanhope, New Jersey
Posted by John De Marco on Jan 28, 2003 at 1:48 PM
To be honest with you people, I’m more afraid of Americans than I am of Mexican’s or any other nationality on Earth. Take some history lessons, what do you have to be so proud about protecting? It’s basic civility to send an injured person to a hospital. How would you like it if you were injured in Mexico, and they just tossed you in a gutter to die? Would you not want similar courtesies extended to you? God only knows why anyone would want to live in your forsaken country in the first place…
Posted by B on Jan 28, 2003 at 10:05 PM
BOO HOO. I am all for language, borders and culture…if the gov’t isn’t going to protect America…I guess Americans will have to.
Posted by CWhitaekr on Jan 28, 2003 at 11:34 PM
I am a Christian, and believe that God created man in His image. It doesn’t make any difference what color or nationality they are.
Now that being said… people who sneak across the border are indeed illegal aliens. I don’t care what color they are or what country they are from. There is a proper way to become an American Citizen, and it’s not by sneaking in.
If we are indeed in a “War on Terrorism”, then why the heck are our borders wide open? We are continually given warnings of imminent threats of new terrorist attacks. There have been airplane stubs from many different foreign countries found along our southern border. Anyone from any country that has the means to do so could simply fly into Mexico or Central America and ultimately just walk right across our open border.
While I DON’T agree with undue treatment of ANY criminal, we are allowed to both protect ourselves and our country, and to make citizen arrests. If I woke up in the middle of the night and saw strangers hiding out in my backyard, littering it, and using it for a bathroom (many such incidents have been reported), you can better believe I’d do something to protect my family. We do have the right to keep and bear arms for just such a purpose as this.
Posted by Randy on Jan 29, 2003 at 4:49 AM
This issue has always been one around which I have had trouble wrapping an opinion. I agree with many of the posters who stated their incredulity with the journalist’s facts. The article was essentially an emotional appeal to a readership who probably never had to “sneak” across a border. It reminds the audience of the humanity of the whole situation. Hence, the majority of the posters have to first express their fundamental concern for human rights and then assert their opinion about the “criminals” who cross the border to perform ill deeds. But like the journalist’s words, I find fault with the posters’ comments which cite various crimes of some “illegals.” Like the belief that every plane that lands successfully will never make news, every “illegal” immigrant who comes to pick fruit/vegetables, construct homes/buildings, dig ditches, clean homes, wash dishes, etc. and contribute to the market economy everytime they shop for groceries, pay rent, or buy gas will never make headlines.
Sensational news and yummy soundbites will dominate the front pages of papers and t.v. news and naturally seep into the minds of smart citizens and given some levity to them without thought to the lack of complex evaluation behind such assertions. In the end, I long for a forum of “reader comments” which actually contributes/creates dialogue without the bold print in the papers. Let’s pause, consider, then write/talk/profess. Honestly, I feel no closer to an opinion on the matter based on Arrieta’s article or any of the unconvincing equally emotionally appealed reactions. (Although, I do intend on researching the government officials, the groups mentioned, and any follow-up reports I can read.) Thus, my opinion is facilitated by intelligent interaction with those on both sides of the issue.
I know that within this group of articulate readers, there are at least a few that are equally fed up with a “dog chasing its tail” way of deliberating an issue.
Posted by A Jackson on Jan 29, 2003 at 6:52 AM
Since when is it a crime to protect your own property?
Since when does our government refuse to protect the property of Americans? Since when does our government give tax credits amounting in the million to PAC’s encouraging foreigners to break our immigration laws? Since when must people protect their own property because our government declines to do so?
Posted by Robert Simmons on Jan 29, 2003 at 11:08 AM
What many Americans seem to conveniently forget is that this country is based on immigrants. If it weren’t for the Mexican farm workers, our produce would cost much, much more than what we are paying now. Just what American will work in hot dusty fields picking produce for a few dollars a day—without any added benefits? Who will work in the sweat shops in Los Angeles for minimum wage (and no benefits)? These people are hard workers who have built the economy of this country by taking jobs that nobody else would do.
One can hardly blame Mexicans for wanting to come to America when all they see on television is that the “streets are paved with gold,” and finding out the hard way that the average American is prejudiced, mean, bullying and intolerant of any race that isn’t white.
Posted by K. Britfeld on Jan 30, 2003 at 11:54 AM
I would just like to say that “B” does not speak for Canada. I can very honestly say that if I were injured or sick and was illegally entering another country that I would NOT expect them to welcome me with open arms and pay for my treatments. Who would expect that? Wake up B! Even if the people entering are “good people”, they are still criminals by virtue of their choice to immigrant illegally. In my opinion, criminals lose their civil rights to those who obey the law!
Posted by Mark on Jan 31, 2003 at 11:04 AM
if everyone is so concerned by the influx of illegal immigrants, we need to address the issue: not ‘how’ they’re coming in but ‘why’.
no matter how many preventative and punative measure are put into place, that fact remains that america can offer what most other countries can’t to these people. not that the u.s. should solve all the problems of the third world, but the american government should at least desist from exacerbating the poverty and oppression of the third world. nafta and trade agreements need to be tailored to benefit all countries instead of just the rich multinationals. i don’t see a few jobs at slave-wages benefitting the overall economy and infrastructure of mexico.
Posted by christian on Jan 31, 2003 at 12:02 PM
While I think we can agree that it’s a sad state of affairs when people have to resort to this kind of wild west justice, but they’ve really been left with no choice. The government of the United States and ESPECIALLY the government of Mexico have refused to make genuine efforts to stop these criminals (the people crossing our border in violation of our law), so eventually people start taking matters into their own hands. I live pretty far from the border, but I can certainly tell you that if I saw someone who was obviously a criminal walking along the roadside I’d do the same. If I saw them on my property they’d be dead.
Posted by Nathan Fisher on Jan 31, 2003 at 2:42 PM
Draft ‘em all and send them to Afganistan to fight, those that survive get to be US citizens.
Posted by Bill SMith on Jan 31, 2003 at 5:37 PM
$ 10,000 dollars for each vigilante death
Posted by raul on Jan 31, 2003 at 5:44 PM
Now that I’ve had a chance to read through all the comments, I can see that there are a few reasonable people - people who are not blinded by pure “patriotism” (is that what it is?) and can step back and look at the issue - humans killing other humans. Yes, they are “illegal”, as in undocumented, but how can we call people “illegal”? By dehumanizing this group, which is what you are doing, it becomes very easy to be “rah rah” about vigilantism. Good for you. From your computer, you cheer people on for KILLING other people. You must be so proud of yourselves.
I encourage all of you who believe that immigrants cost Americans billions and billions of dollars to check their facts. Medicare and arming ourselves cost us way more. And, I’m sure that given the opportunity to hire cheap labor who won’t “talk back”, many of you wouldn’t turn it down.
We are a country with a rich history in conquest for the sake of “freedom”. We have murdered in the name of liberty, so maybe it’s in some people’s blood to fight for something so imaginary. Yes, I know that I’m jumping on the “ethos” bandwagon, but sometimes it feels like it’s all I have left.
Posted by Antonia on Jan 31, 2003 at 7:13 PM
When you don’t learn your history, You are doomed to repeat it. Everything I read in the replies and in the story itself reminds me of the ‘wars’ fought against the native people of this country. These were not wars. The European races were at first welcomed by the eastern tribes. The ancestors of the very people condemning these Mexican people. Was it not those very same ancestors that brought diseases, murder and rape to the Natives of this very land. Now look at the way they try to make themselves sound so self-rightous. The very way there ancestors did not so many years ago. These inhabitants of stolen lands want to protect the very land their ancestors stole in the first place. I am ashamed to admit that these people are even human beings. Yet, it is human nature that drives them to condemn their fellow man. Based on race and differences in color. We all want the same things in this life. To be healthy. To not live in fear. To give our children everything that we never had. The people that enter this country have the dreams that those European people did and they work hard to make their dreams come true. Can you find people to clean your hotels willing to work for the wages these people get? Can you find an American willing to work 2 sometimes 3 jobs to give money to their relatives that need it? Can you find Americans that are willing to put extended family first? Can you find these people? I suppose you can in small groups. Would you be willing to stay in this country if you faced the lifestyle so many Mexicans face in their country. I don’t think so. If the opportunity presented itself to go somewhere and make your life better for yourself and your family. Your damn right you’d go too!
Posted by usnative on Jan 31, 2003 at 7:21 PM
Dear Isabel Garcia,
You are blind to the realities that “coyotes” are vicious criminals clearly capable of executing their excess “baggage”. They have no respect for the law of our country or of Mexico’s. Conversely, citizen patrols are motivated by respect for the law and our society to assist overwhelmed U.S. legal entities against criminal activity conducted by foreign nationals illegaly present in the USA. Your reduction of your fundamental position against civilian interdictions to one based on race merely exposes failure to understand a criminal is a criminal. Your activities and posture on immigration policy issues only make you a provaceteur of further criminal actions: the unfettered growth of illegal immigration. Are you not an accessory to a crime?????
Posted by John M on Jan 31, 2003 at 7:29 PM
USnative, I totally agree w/you. I’m originally from South America, living in this great country for 12 years, but I still don’t understand these people that claim that nobody has the right to come here. They fear that it may happen to them what they did to the NATIVE AMERICANS, the only people that can claim to be originary from this land. The rest of us, like it or not, are inmigrants to some degree..
Posted by fernando on Jan 31, 2003 at 8:05 PM
This country has a long history of illegal immigration. Just ask the Indians.
Posted by Luxa on Jan 31, 2003 at 8:20 PM
I find it hard to be real sympathetic to the ILLEGAL aliens.If our incompetent INS can`t get the job done,protecting our borders,then someone should!They slip into our country,and don`t pay taxes,get free medical attention,get welfare,and pop out babies like breeding cock roaches.The U.S. is like a big ship on the ocean.Sooner or later we will sink from so many illegals slipping into the country.The government caters to them,hoping to win votes.And in the mean time,the rest of us get screwed.American citizens are nothing more than a source of tax money and a vote for our politicians.Both Republicans and Democrats are guilty of catering to illegals.So,I say to the vigilantes,KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!WISH I COULD JOIN YOU!
Posted by Mike Callahan on Jan 31, 2003 at 8:31 PM
I thinks it time to do something about all the illegal immigrants in the usa before its to late.The bootom line is they shouldnt be here unless they go throught the proper steps to become us citizens. There taking over the labor force due to the fact there work for fukin pennies on the dollar. We live in america and it really pisses me off when people cant even talk english, if you wanna talk any other language take your sorry asses back to your countries.THIS COUNTRY NEEDS TO TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN FIRST THEN THE SORRY ASS WET BACKS.This shit will get worse before it gets better.All i got to say is there glad i dont live by the border POW POW
Posted by jimbo on Jan 31, 2003 at 8:37 PM
Posted by Cat man on Jan 31, 2003 at 8:41 PM
I Feel very sorry for the plight of the illegal immigrants, however, I feel more sorrow for the legal Americans whose taxes go to pay for a new generation of illegal immigration. Illegal immigration has systematically “drained” the social services, law enforcement, and public school systems of their funding. The American citizens whose ancestry fought to build America into what it has become today-a leader in innovation and technology, are finding all of their efforts were in vain. For example, the breaking down of the labor unions mainly caused by the influx of new immigrants willing to support this movement. All of this makes one wonder “If I (as an American) were to go to Mexico, would I receive such benefits [i.e., welfare benefits, free education, and a labor pool in need of black market labor], or, would I be persecuted for just being American??????? I strongly believe an unwarranted persecution would take place and no rights would be given to me! Why don’t the new immigrants build up their own countries and stay there like my Ancestors did here?
Posted by concerned on Jan 31, 2003 at 8:47 PM
It might be true that the overwhelming number of illegal aliens come to the US with good intentions such as giving their children a better life, but the problems they create place the US into an even more dismal economic situation. They might purchase goods and services and take jobs that “most people” don’t want, but that is no justification for illegal immigration. There are plenty of first generation “legal” immigrants who can fill those jobs. Education is the key to succeeding in the US. First generation immigrants are often uneducated and will take the menial jobs that are available for low pay. Many of these parents are happy working hard to see their children succeed and take a larger role in the US society. We need to spend the limited budget we have on the people ALLREADY in this country. I personally like having a high standard of living…I am not a bigot. I judge people on their merit…immigrants who use the proper procedures to enter the country I will welcome with open arms. Give these people and their children the chance to get educated and move up the social ladder. My great grandparents immigrated to this country LEGALLY, they worked hard and passed down what they earned to my forebears. I was educated and work hard to enjoy life with my family. Under-education and the resulting over-fertility that Mexican citizens experience is putting a strain on the Mexican economy as it is. We have enough problems to address here in the US. Let them help themselves with education and contraception.
Oh…and to those people who say that this country is a country of immigrants and the northern Europeans immigrants took this land from the native Americans….native Americans immigrated to the US from Asia through the bearing straight…look it up.
Posted by Lurch on Jan 31, 2003 at 9:01 PM
The bottom ling is all the mexicans that live here illegally send most of their money back to mexico and therfore make up about 60% of the mexican economy.And if thats not enough to make you angry the legal ones in our country are giving millions to the corrupt politicians so they dont enforce the immigration laws.If things dont change one day youll see mexican infront of A merica
Posted by angry american on Jan 31, 2003 at 9:40 PM
I don’t like criminals, whether illegals or legals, citizens or non-citizens, and whites or non-whites.
But in case of immigration, I don’t against it since America itself is based on immigrants who came from all over the world.
Posted by Triaman Nataatmadja on Jan 31, 2003 at 10:16 PM
God bless Chris Simcox! Tell him to let me know if I can help in ANY way!
John Cline Jr.
Posted by John Cline Jr. on Jan 31, 2003 at 10:25 PM
As a US citizen of this country I agree wholeheartedly that the American people have no choice but to be vigilant in protecting our borders. It is the growing numbers of illegal immigrants that this country faces medical expenses, high unemployment rate, higher taxes. The government isn’t doing effective job when it comes to our borders. Just look what happened Sept. 11? Need I say more?
Posted by Maria on Jan 31, 2003 at 11:06 PM
Regarding the Illegal Mexican Imigrants, An illegal Border Crossing is in itself a Crime under the current Laws of Our Land. Therefore a Criminal Act. US Citizens Who Perpetrate Criminal acts are stripped of their Civil Rights, Therefore These People, Noting are not even US Citizens do Not Have ANY RIGHTS under US law ! It’ as simple as That ! If You Don’t Agree with the concept People, Hey, Move To MEXICO !
As for all the Aid given to Mexico a few Years Back, Remember ? Ask the Bankers in The Bahamas Who are Holding it remembering the Mexicans who said “DUMB AMERICANS Gave it to US !
Posted by Henry on Jan 31, 2003 at 11:30 PM
Song from T Rohan:
The cowboys and bikers better take back the west, The Mexicans are breeding like rats in a nest, Thier having their babies, their doing their best, So the bikers and cowboys better take back the west, If you think I’m joking, just go on downtown, stand on the corner, take a good look around, the cities are crumbing ‘cause the labor’s all brown, so the bikers and the cowboys better take back thier town. You crips and you blood’s better stop this brown flood, or soon your fine ‘hoods will be Mexican mud, plant a bomb on the border—make sure it’s not a dud, cuz you Crips and you Bloods gotta fight this brown flood, now I’m not a racist, just an honest young man, I can’t stop ‘em all, but I’ll do what I can—we must work together, we must take a stand, We must fight for our children and protect our land! We reserve our rights as America citezens to protect our country from Enemy’s FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. WE RESERVE OUR RIGHTS TO BEAR ARMS AND ENSURE OUR FREEDOM FOR THE PUSUIT OF LIFE, FREEDOM AND HAPPINESS. NOW GO DO THE RIGHT THING PEOPLE OF AMERICA!READ THE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS AND ACT ACORDINLY. WHAT WOULD GEORGE WASHINGTON OR THOMAS JEFFERSON DO? IF NOT US? WHO? IF NOT NOW? WHEN?!!!EVIL TRIUMPH’S WHEN GOOD MEN DO NOTHING.
Posted by Thomas on Jan 31, 2003 at 11:54 PM
To all of the people boo-hooing about the Indians being the only “Real” Americans, I would like to say, when my ancestors came here from Eastern Europe, Indians rode horses and lived in cloth tents! Go to cherokee, NC today and see how much they have progressed! Not much! Eastern Europeans made this country what it is today! We don’t have 3000 miles of wilderness anymore! We can no longer afford to welcome the world! I say SLAM the doors on our borders before it’s too late! Go to China and India and see the effects of overpopulation! It’s the world’s #1 problem!!
Posted by John Cline Jr. on Feb 1, 2003 at 12:16 AM
I feel sorry for all those people that call themselves Americans and support these vigilante groups. As many have written, this country was built on immigrants whether legal or illegal coming from all over the world. The reason this country is so great is because of immigrants and their fresh new ideas and ways of thinking. Unfortunately because it also has created racist closed minded people who because of their insecurities blame others for their problems. I hope my government the US government does something about these vigilante groups and prosecutes them to the fullest extent of the law. Proud to be an American with 16 years of military service. Proud son of a Mexican immigrant.
Posted by Victor on Feb 1, 2003 at 12:37 AM
The term ‘migrants’ in itself implies some sort of legitimacy. The illegals who cross the border into US territory are not migrants. They are criminally tresspassing illegal aliens and should be treated as such.
Posted by Andreas on Feb 1, 2003 at 12:37 AM
First, let start by saying that no person truly in not a least a little bit racist. Hell, my wife is spanish and black mix. Now with that said, I ask this question “Why should we let more people in this country when we people of all races that are homeless and hungery?” I say take of the peoblems that we already have first, then we will take care of everybody else second. Yes, America was settle by immengts,hell my people are from Scotland, but at that time in history the settlers didn’t have to worry about nuclear wepons or people crashing planes into buildings, or things like that. I truly feel that America should shut her borders competely until we can take care of our own people first. One last thing, to chris in canada, you wouldn’t be so smug if you didn’t have the great country of America protecting your canadian ass, now would u? please feel free to email me your responses. In closing, I feel that we will have another war over issues like these. I say God help childern, for they will be the ones who deal with our actions.
Posted by danny on Feb 1, 2003 at 1:29 AM
Amazing! Why all the racism and hate? I didn’t realize ya’ll were that insecure. Is it the economy? Whatever it is, if my brothers from Mexico (from whom, ironically enough, you stole the southwest) don’t organize Pancho Villa-style groups to counter the vigilantes, the eternal flames of hell WILL be awaiting you for your crimes against humanity.
Posted by Pablo Garcia on Feb 1, 2003 at 1:30 AM
This is all about RACE…. WE Whites do not want the non white third world hordes coming into our WHITE country period. The Mexican, Honduran et al are not wanted period. If you are offended to bad. We have enough racial animus with the Black Americans to insert another race into the nation is a quick trip to national suicide. Why dont you La reza people stay in your own countries and make them better more livable places then forcing your way in here against our will. Call me what you like I could not care less what I have stated are my fellow White countrymens feelongs on this matter STAY HOME ! ! !
Posted by P. Tenisi on Feb 1, 2003 at 1:31 AM
I wonder what would of happened if all the white suppremacist had their way and only white people (even though there really isn’t a true 100% white person or any other 100% race out there) lived here. Could you imagine all the in-breeding? Boy, that would be a great country!
Posted by Victor on Feb 1, 2003 at 1:44 AM
Hey Victor you third worlders can only resort to name calling and asinine comments because there is no intelligent rebuttal to White nationalism .Hey your people want to jam yourselves into a white nation because of the quiet clean in stable societies we build where ever we go. I repeat STAY HOME!
Posted by P. Tenisi on Feb 1, 2003 at 1:57 AM
It’s unfortunate theres so much hatred now in america….
Lets have the illegals armed and teach those sorry excuse people that call themselves americans a dose of there own medicine….KILL ALL VIGILANTIES
Posted by J. Michael on Feb 1, 2003 at 3:51 AM
I have something to say to Mr. Pablo Garcia.You say that we are racist and insecure because we don`t want ILLEGAL MEXICANS to continue to slip across our border into the U.S.?You are a real moron if you don`t understand that this isn`t the reason.We don`t like ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS from [any] country coming to the U.S. to live off of the rest of us!They don`t pay taxes,while the rest of us get our legal asses taxed off.They get welfare,when they have NEVER worked in the U.S.They get free medical care,when the rest of us can hardly afford to pay our medical costs.They get free child care,when the rest of us can`t afford to pay for child care.They get housing assistance,when we have thousands of homeless U.S. citizens living on the streets.They have almost bankrupted the medical care system in the state of California.If you or any other fucking moron,legal citizen or not,can`t understand all this,then too bad.Take your sorry asses back across the border.
Posted by Mike Callahan on Feb 1, 2003 at 4:10 AM
I live in the state of North Carolina.We have 400,000 Mexican immigrants in the state.The vast majority of these people are illegals.I would like to ask any bleeding-heart liberal moron,“Why should we be taxed to death,and pay high-cost medical insurance when these illegals get by free”?They receive welfare benefits for their children.No wonder they multiply like rabbits!If any American citizen can say they approve of all this,then they are one stupid son-of-a-bitch!My wife works at a Hampton Inn in our home town of Marion.She cleans rooms for the guests.Recently,two families of Hispanics who lived together in a house lost their home to a fire.So the state of North Carolina put them all in two different rooms at Hampton Inn.The rooms cost $120.00 each every night.These two families spent two months at the Hampton Inn!Some of the house keepers refused to clean their rooms,because the Mexicans shit in the waste cans,and wiped their asses on the bath towels.Also,one of the Mexican women had just had another baby,and she had been having sex,and putting the used,bloody rubbers under her bed,which had dried and stuck to the carpet.Also,some of the room furniture was broken,and the children were loud and raised hell all the time.When they finally checked out,the state of North Carolina picked up the tab,which was almost $15,000.00.If anyone out there has an idea about an organization we could start to stop all this bull shit,I am all ears.Write me.Maybe we can do some good.All Americans,black and white need to take action before it`s too late.Our politicians sure as hell won`t!
Posted by Mike Callahan on Feb 1, 2003 at 4:53 AM
Why in your article did you not mention the huge amounts of trash and human waste these intruders leave behind? Why did you not mention the fact that they cause all kinds of property damage and the enviromental impact of their illegal actions? I think these are good American citizens trying to clean up a mess that our Government has turned a blind eye on for way to long. If they want to come over and work there is a legal way of doing so. Please don’t say oh great another letter from whitey, because my wife is an immigrant who got here LEGALLY!
Posted by James Maxwell on Feb 1, 2003 at 5:50 AM
It sounds like these groups are doing the job our government should be doing.
Posted by Carl Rush on Feb 1, 2003 at 6:20 AM
why are we complaineing when u.s citizens are giveing illegals the jobs we americans need .they wouldnt be here if we americans werent giveing them jobs .look around !
Posted by moe joooe on Feb 1, 2003 at 6:46 AM
I am an american citizen of various background nationalities. I believe that this is a free country and therefore whomever wants to live, work, play and pay taxes in this country can do so. Legally. There is a legal way of entering this country, but has anyone taken a look at the process? It is time consuming, expensive, and almost borderline ridiculous. The people entering this country legally have to learn more and do know more about American and its history than those of us that were born here and went to school here. Has anyone ever thought that if our government would make the process of becoming a citizen simpler, then we wouldn’t have as many problems with illigal people entering our country. After becoming citizens, they would pay taxes, pay their own medical bills and be punished for their own crimes, just like us. And about the race issue, why is it always about race? What is the matter with someone having a different color skin, or different beliefs than what you have? I have met many, many different people in my life, and never found a general stereotype for any people. In all races, nationalities, and religions, there are good people and there are bad people. Your skin color doesn’t determine who you are. We all make our own decisions based on our experiences. That doesn’t mean every illegal is a bad person who will do bad things. How do you think all that fruit is picked in California, or our farm implements are put together in Texas, or our dishes are washed in New York, or the hotels are kept clean in Florida? There are millions of illegals, or people hoping for US citizenship in this country who are willing to do the jobs that alot of citizens feel are beneath them. The wages are lower that the national minimum wage alot of times and these people don’t complain! They don’t sue if they work overtime, they don’t sue if they aren’t given what they feel they deserve just for being alive! I could go on and on about the stupid things our own citizens do, and it might do our country some good to kick these people out and bring in some decents hard working, responible people to help turn our country around!
Posted by american girl on Feb 1, 2003 at 9:02 AM
How can we fight terrorism and hate if we “Americans” are filled with it ourselves? It’s interesting how people don’t think before they speak, act or write. Let me ask you something, why did the europeans migrate to (or more like INVADE) the americas? Do you think they did it pacifically and asking permission from the natives? Patriotism is great but not to the point of ethnocentrism. Yes America is the strongest and richest and most powerful country in the world. And if you were on the outside looking in, would you not want a piece of the pie? Hell yes you would do anything you could to try to give your family a better life. Say anything you want you but inside you know you damn would. All you hypocrit idiots that are too privaledged to give a shit about anything else in the world. These people are Americans just like each and everyone of you morons. Even more so, because YOUR ancestors were the wetbacks and the migrants and the illegals of the past. Why did they not stay in Europe? Should everyone pack up and just go back where they came from? Who’s left then, the natives, and hell, I just have to cross the border, most of you have to cross the freaking atlantic to get “home”. Instead of focusing time and energy doing unneccesary shit like spewing hate and racism, we should focus on not being blown up by real the terrorists. But it’s just easier to find a scapegoat and let out your frustration on the defenseless and weak, it’s all about the power right? I’m a proud U.S and proud daughter of two mexican immigrants. If a mexican has to cross the border risking death, exploitation and racism from others why would they do it in the first place? Oh yes, it’s just to take the first class jobs that everyone’s applying for. Cleaning toilets, scrubbing dishes, building your houses and picking fruit for $2 an hour for 15 freaking hours aday. Or maybe it’s to hang out at the clubs and tennis courts of America, to think of how lucky they are to be here without their families, without money and being hunted down like criminals. Or maybe we just come here to bug the shit out of you…yeah, that must be it…
P.S. I’m a proud New Yorker and on 9/11 everyone was the same color, the same race. I remember how the dust just covered everyone making them all the same color, no distinctions of any kind. It’s a shame how idiotic we become when the dust settles…
Posted by Sulay on Feb 1, 2003 at 9:23 AM
It’s time to treat this invastion by Mexico as a war on American soil. (illegal or legal)
Causes our economy to go sour and causes out breaks of sickness and drugs to increase. It’s time to put our armed forces on the borders and give all Mexicans a time limit to leave America our be treated as war crimnals.
God bless American!!!
Posted by Mickey on Feb 1, 2003 at 9:37 AM
To American Girl:
Wake up!!!!! It must not be real hard to enter the U.S.Remember 9/11?And just because it takes a while to become an American citizen,isn`t an excuse to break our laws and enter illegally.The I.N.S. MUST HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU WORKING FOR THEM.THAT`S WHY WE NO LONGER HAVE A WORLD TRADE CENTER LEFT!And there is a good reason why illegal immigrants {do the jobs no one else will do},as you bleeding-heart liberals are so fond of saying.THEY DON`T GET TAXED!! They get every cent they earn!There are a lot of these jobs Americans would do,too if they didn`t get their asses taxed off.
Posted by Mike Callahan on Feb 1, 2003 at 9:37 AM
Mr. Callahan,
You seem to have a lot of hate and anger inside of you. You would just love to kick me and all my family out of the U.S wouldn’t you? Maybe you could just pack up and ship out to defend our country or maybe you would rather just sit at your computer and type stupid shit like your doing now…
Posted by Sulay on Feb 1, 2003 at 9:53 AM
to american girl maybe if they stay in thier counrty and fix thier problems there and fix thier gov. maybe they could have a better life for them selfs than run from them.if they come by the thousands then you mean to tell me thats not enough poeple to control there own lifes at home how many more excuses are poeple going to make for them .its not that we dont like them but it time we americans take care of our own
Posted by moe jooooe on Feb 1, 2003 at 10:10 AM
Being a non US-Citizen, I’d like to say that I’ m really astonished. or sadly impressed, after reading all these comments from descendants of european citizens, who were purchased by all sort of reasons or just left to America and latter on the US, because they were hungering in the Old european countries. What I should say, is that these Chicanos have been living between these two borders for centuries, whilst you white americans americans arrived on american sole, yesterday, if I could say so. Instead of complaining the whole day, because of the incomptence oy your different federal gouvernments, in what refers to immigration policy, you should understand that the problems you are facing, lack of medical security for all americans, is part of what characterizes the US. Individualism, instead of invading foreign countries, you should invest your money in building a more equalitarian society, but most of all, STOP INVADING the World, because, and don’t die for yours chicanos and blacks first row soldiers, in that case you would be legitimating that the vigilantes would be then defending their borders.
Posted by Who Cares, maybe you do. on Feb 1, 2003 at 10:17 AM
Illegal immigrants are breaking the law and thumbing their noses at the government.
I don’t condone murder but the citizen who held that illegal criminal for the border patrol should be commended, not vilified.
Mexico is a country rich with resources and talented people.
I as a taxpayer should not be forced to pay for it’s corrupt governmental failed policies and mismanagement of those assets.
Our borders are out of control and if it costs more at the supermarket for tomato’s it’s a small price to pay versus the damage to the environment from uncontrolled population growth in this country.
Posted by Jim on Feb 1, 2003 at 10:45 AM
Simcox is our next George Washington. He and his organization need a statue in our nations capital. America doesn’t need people anymore. We especially don’t need anymore third world unskilled, illiterate, primitive, farmhands or janitors in this great nation. If Mexicans can’t run their country, it is not the place of the USA to absorb their people and help their own citizens which they have no way of helping. Remember, who won the Alamo??
Posted by Verne Schllinger on Feb 1, 2003 at 10:49 AM
This is an informative article on the border problem which concerns many Americans. These groups which have to do what the government doesn’t successfuly get done, can’t be blamed, this is desperation on the part of the vigilante groups. What else can they do? The illegals immigrants don’t take our immigrations laws seriously, they know that once they get across the borders, they are home and American employers are willing to hire them. At least some people who live along the borders are trying to do something to help the Border Patrol control this immense problem of the hordes of illegals which sneak into our borders DAILY.
Posted by Marie Rouse on Feb 1, 2003 at 11:29 AM
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE CRIMINALS. THEY ARE VIOLATION FEDERAL LAW. THEY ENTER OUR COUNTRY BY BREAKING THE LAW. They compete with Americans for jobs, tuition, housing, and government assistance. They undermine American workers by working for sub-standard wages. They undermine legal immigrants who pay a high price to enter our country legally. They perpetuate the myth that American workers do not want to work low paying jobs, while replacing those workers at those same jobs. American workers want only a decent wage and benefits, and cannot compete with illegal immigrants who work for less, and ask for nothing else…LETS STOP LYING ABOUT THE PROBLEM, AND FIND A SOLUTION TO STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
Posted by Bobby on Feb 1, 2003 at 11:43 AM
I agree with the people who have pointed out that much of this article basically amounts to supposition and conjecture. I don’t see any useful evidence that these vigilantes have committed specific crimes.
I do also agree with the writer that these groups likely pose a real danger, however. Hate groups are one of the unfortunate realities of life in the USA, and the comments of the people in the article, as well as the replies here, clearly point to violent feelings of bigotry, fear, and in some cases a disturbing dismissal of state, federal, and international law (to say nothing of the standards of religion and common decency).
Illegal crossing of the border is a serious problem, and some illegals do commit acts of violence while in the USA. But the overwhelming majority of violent crime in the United States is committed by Americans, against Americans. Even if all border crossing ended today, it wouldn’t make much of a dent in our crime statistics. Furthermore, the number of non-violent illegals cleaning our houses, picking our crops, serving our food, sweeping our stores, hauling our consumer goods, and constructing our buildings far outnumbers the small percentage who attack people while in the USA. Most Americans want someone else to perform these manual labors for little pay and no benefits (i.e. illgals)—as long as that remains a fundamental reality even an army of hate-crusaders on the border won’t stop the crossings.
If this were really about crime instead of racial hatred, the advocates of vigilantism would be putting their money and political clout toward drug rehabilitation, better public education, universal health care, higher minimum wage, and other programs that attack the root causes of crime and have been proven to work in preventing the creation of criminals. We can play soldier in the desert all we want, rounding up a few half-dead illegals in the dead of night, and it won’t do anything to solve the problem of crime in America (it might, however, get you killed or arrested some day). If someone really cares about crime, they have to stamp out the social situations that create it, rather than trying to bail out the Titantic with a teacup.
Posted by Jeff on Feb 1, 2003 at 11:58 AM
I wish I lived close enough to the border to join these so called vigilantes. These pathetic mexicans have invaded Denver and are tearing the public schools, police department, and hospitals apart at the seams. There are incredible social costs that we are paying to bear the burden of these illegals. It’s about time somebody takes our country’s needs into their own hands, because our government is not fighting for it’s citizens rights! Unfortunately, our politically correct society says you are a racist if you are against illegal immigration, when, in reality, we are just telling the truth. Illegal Mexicans are carrying Mexico’s burdens with them across the border and the productive, law-abiding, tax-paying American citizens are bearing the cost.
Posted by CT on Feb 1, 2003 at 12:32 PM
Being a Father and hardworking Tax payer, it is refreshing to read about groups that are interested in the protection of our borders. I will not endorse villance toward these poor people. Unfortunately, drugs are a big bussiness, and people will die. It’s too bad our own Goverment does such a poor Job on our southern borders.
Posted by Tom Hornbaker on Feb 1, 2003 at 1:10 PM
How many people would admit to committing murder knowing that they would go to jail for 20 years to life or receive the death penalty? Should we expect the white supremacists to step forward and admit to committing murder? Arrieta cites the Mexican witnesses to the murders, but local law enforcement does not seem to want to believem them (perhaps because of their sympathies with the white-supremacist nativism?). He points out that local and federal law enforcement authorities have been reluctant to investigate the murders of the Mexican border crossers. It is a common practice in law enforcement to speculate on motive and intent in trying to solve murder cases. In this case, who would most likely want to kill Mexican border crossers? White supremacists. It is not a stretch for Arrieta to point the finger at the white supremacists.
The Constitution provides the right to bear arms, but not to use the arms to break the law. Even if someone crosses the border illegally, it does not mean that U.S. citizens can therefore take the law into their own hands and murder them (just like you can’t kill someone who killed one of your relatives.). That is vigilantism and makes the executioner a murderer, felon and an illegal criminal. If a U.S. citizen kills someone because of their race or national origin, even if the person is not a U.S. citizen, that is discrimination, which is a violation of the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964. In other words, it is illegal and a crime to kill based on race or national origin. So the white supremacists have now joined the ranks of the illegals, living in this country as criminals.
Regarding the taxation and welfare issue, most studies show that illegal immigrants actually pay more taxes than the value of social services received. They routinely pay sales taxes, property taxes and those with fake social security cards actually pay payroll and social security taxes for benefits that they never receive because they don’t claim them for fear of deportation.
For those of you who are Christians, would Jesus Christ kill someone because he is brown and crossed a border? Did Christ, a Jew, preach hate based on race and national origin? He preached to love your neighor as you love yourself.
Interesting how the white supremacists are illiterate and don’t know English grammar. You would think that it would be patriotic to know the language of your country.
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 1, 2003 at 1:34 PM
What right do these meztizo INVADERS have to ILLEGALLY enter into MY country that MY White Founding Fathers built with the intention of it being a homeland for WHITE people? Vigilante’s MY ASS! If our corrupt government—correction, the corrupt bought-and-paid-for self-serving scumbags who infest our government—won’t do the job to protect our borders from this invading locust, then DAMN IT TO HELL it’s the right—NO, IT’S THE DUTY—of American citizens to do everything in their power to turn back this abominable swarm.
You, R.M. Arrieta, are nothing more than a politically correct apologist with a poison pen shamelessly making excuses for your law-breaking, wage-lowering latrino brethren, and have the shameless NERVE to vilify and demonize brave, decent, honorable Americans who are doing THE RIGHT THING!
If the situation were reversed for some strange reason, with White Americans crossing the border into your brethren’s dilapidated and wrecked TURD WORLD COUNTRY, you would be singing a song 180 degrees opposite to your present tune. AND YOU KNOW THAT! HYPOCRITE!!!
BiG White
Posted by BiG White on Feb 1, 2003 at 6:20 PM
If corporate America didn’t want those people here they wouldn’t be here; that border would be so tight you couldn’t get a mouse through it. But the corporate idea is, if you can’t export the work then import the worker. This has been corporate strategy since the nineteenth century when they recruited our north, south, or eastern European ancestors in the same way: import enough workers in order to have a ready surplus to draw from and keep wages down, pass restrictive labor laws to keep labor unions from forming, and buy the politicians to run the country for you. It’s nothing new; Latinos are just the latest group to be used in this way. Nebraska Beef, a packing plant in Omaha, actively recruits illegals in Mexico; that’s known here. They start them at $8.00 per hour and it takes four years to get to $9.00. This is in a city where packing plants in 1979 were paying $11.50 per hour for the same job. They want undocumented workers; they pay them miserable wages, treat them like the animals they slaughter, and if anyone complains they call INS. And at the same time they protect themselves against union organizing. So it goes.
Posted by John on Feb 1, 2003 at 6:23 PM
The Feds will eventually come after these KKK, church-burning, border- vigilante white-supremacist criminals just like they went after and got Timothy McVeigh, the KKK members who burned the black church in Alamba in the 60s, etc. These pathetic, paranoid right-wing vigilante militias are no match for the Federal law enforcement agencies. Do they really think they could take on all Federal law enforcement agencies including the U.S. armed forces (many of whom are African American and Latino)? Those chicken-shit hate-mongering murderers will get their asses kicked so bad, they will run for their red-neck inbred white mamas. They will be killed battling Federal law enforcement agencies or rot in federal prisons after capture. They don’t have a chance to overthrow the democratic U.S government for the people, by the people and of the people—that is, a people of all races and ethnicities including Anglos, African Americans, Latinos, Asian Americans, Native Americans, Arab Americans, etc.
Posted by The People of the United States on Feb 1, 2003 at 7:19 PM
According to the INS, there are 7 million illegal immigrants in the United States. That’s 2.5% of the total U.S. population of 280 million. It is hard to believe that such a small number people are the cause of all the entire country’s problems. Get over the scapegoating and paranoia.
Posted by Reason on Feb 1, 2003 at 7:33 PM
Apologist Robert Simmons from San Rafael, Ca. wrote:
“What many Americans seem to conveniently forget is that this country is based on immigrants.”
What type of immigrants, Einstein? Were they illiterate, low-IQ blacks from the dark continent? No. Were they orientals from the far east? No. Were they the current hoard from south of the border? No. They were WHITE EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS.
“If it weren’t for the Mexican farm workers, our produce would cost much, much more than what we are paying now.”
Get a load of this self-centered dork. Just because he wants cheap produce to stuff his face with, he justifies this illegal invasion which will only cause ethnic turmoil, ultimately resulting in a balkanized America in the not too distant future. It’s the same greedy short term thinking that imported the negro slaves from Africa to our shores. Just look at what a great burden this has been for America! FYI, I and other Americans would gladly pay double for our produce if these illegal aliens were kept out!
“Just what American will work in hot dusty fields picking produce for a few dollars a day—without any added benefits? Who will work in the sweat shops in Los Angeles for minimum wage (and no benefits)? These people are hard workers who have built the economy of this country by taking jobs that nobody else would do.”
(BIG yawn…) The same lame, overused argument used to justify this illegal and dangerous (for this country’s future) invasion. Let me tell you something pal, as a blue collar worker myself, I can assure you, if you pay Americans a liveable wage—not minimum wage—with benefits, we’ll gladly do any job that needs to be done. Period. These greedy bastards that employ illegal aliens don’t want to. All they care about is themselves and their wallet. They’d rather exploit illegal aliens than pay an American citizen a liveable wage. They don’t give one damn about the upheavel this will bring down the road, and in more than a few locations, already is bringing as can be seen by the increased crime, violence, drug trafficking and gang activity wherever there’s a large concentration of these wage-depressing latrinos. But that’s OK. Just as long as Robert Simmons can buy cheap produce to stuff his face with, that’s all that matters.
Bob Grant
Posted by Bob Grant on Feb 1, 2003 at 7:54 PM
John wrote:
“This has been corporate strategy since the nineteenth century when they recruited our north, south, or eastern European ancestors in the same way: import enough workers in order to have a ready surplus to draw from and keep wages down, pass restrictive labor laws to keep labor unions from forming, and buy the politicians to run the country for you.”
All true, but you overlook one very important fact. These Europeans imported to do work were Caucasians just like the founding race. They eventually assimilated into one American culture, unlike the current non-white invasion, which is readily seen wherever these people have amassed. Discounting the rare exceptions, they’re not here to be Americans. Don’t kid yourself. If you don’t believe me, ask anyone who lives in an area infested with Mexicans. It’s like you’re in a foreign country. Except it’s your country being transformed into a foreign land.
Posted by B. White on Feb 1, 2003 at 8:12 PM
A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law You really are a dumb ass, aren?t you?
While I have no doubt, you?re a good CHRISTINA, judging by your semi-illiterate diatribe you are too stupid to research your own questions, so here I?ll help:
1) ?He points out that local and federal law enforcement authorities have been reluctant to investigate the murders of the Mexican border crossers?. White supremacists? Here you ignorant wretch is what a REAL news source say: ?Since March, smugglers of illegal immigrants, known as “coyotes,” have left behind eight bodies, each killing as brutal as the one before, investigators say.? http://www.arizonarepublic.com/special03/ articles/0106executions06.html
2) ?The Constitution provides the right to bear arms, but not to use the arms to break the law.? Even if someone crosses the border illegally, it does not mean that U.S. citizens can therefore take the law into their own hands and murder them? Again, Dumb Ass, There hasn?t been a SINGLE murder, that the vigilantes were even reasonably suspected (except by anti-American bigots) of committing! Each one, has been by MEXICANS murdering the illegals and competing coyotes! Again, Dumb Ass, there?s not a single incident reported of white supremacist involvement, other than by anti-American bigots and those who breed votes. So your stupid diatribe about ?Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964” is irrelevant AND stupid!
3) ?Regarding the taxation and welfare issue, most studies show that illegal immigrants actually pay more taxes than the value of social services received.? this is nothing more than a lie, to fool the stupid.
4) ?For those of you who are Christians, would Jesus Christ kill someone because he is brown and crossed a border?? He would, if He was a Mexican Coyote! This is simply a case, of ?criminals killing criminals.?
Posted by Joe on Feb 1, 2003 at 9:19 PM
Here’s something to think about. With the very likely upcoming war against Iraq, most of our EUROPEAN, AUSTRALIAN, CANADIAN (all WHITE, mind you), allies will be supporting or fighting alongside our troops, sacrificing their lifes to free the World from a tyrant.
Will our neighbors south of the border commit troops to aid our cause? Of course NOT. Those PIGS will be waiting and watching for any sign of weakness in our Border Patrol to send wave after wave of pigs that will put even more burden on our already strained economy.
So, I applaud the patriotic duty that the vigilante groups have bestowed on themselves to defend our borders and country. In the weeks to come, they’ll need all of our support and encouragement to redouble their efforts to keep our country being invaded by those pests!!!
Posted by Andres on Feb 1, 2003 at 11:42 PM
Andres,
You make a mistake by stating all of the countries you mentioned are white countries. You need to look at our military and theirs to see that it is very diverse with people of many races willing to put their lives in danger to protect people like you decent or not. I myself am not white(mexican decent) but have served 16 years in the US Army to defend my country(United States of America). Whether you like or not people of other races other than white are here to stay. Hopefully one day racism will cease to exist.
Posted by Victor on Feb 2, 2003 at 12:47 AM
Coyotes have been in the business of smuggling Mexicans into the U.S. for several decades since the border began to be patrolled. Why all of a sudden would coyotes start killing their clients? The competing coyotes argument makes no sense because that would just make potential clients take the risk of crossing the border on their own without the help of coyotes given the fear of getting killed by “rival” coyotes. Clients who don’t pay coyotes historically have been held captives here in the U.S. until the illegal immigrants pay off their debts by working or from loans from family members.
It is doubtfull that drug traffickers would use people walking on foot to smuggle large amounts of drugs. It is not efficient nor cost effective given that they can’t carry much drugs on foot and there is a high risk that people will die in the desert. Drug smuggling mostly happens by motor vehicle, airplane and boat because because large amounts of drugs can be transported by those means. Transporting by motor vehicle with a large group of people would attract more attention by border patrol agents so that doesn’t make sense either.
The timing of the killings seem to coincide with the emergence of the KKK vigilante militias patrolling the border. The white-supremacist vigilantes are just using the coyotes as scapegoats for their cowardly murders for fear of going to prison or confronting armed U.S. law enforcement officers. These vigilantes only kill the unarmed and are too big of cowards to confront the U.S. government’s law enforcement agencies if they truly believe that the government is corrupt and should be overthrown.
The white supremacists aren’t even smart enough to put forward a logical and convincing excuse. The Federal law enforcement agencies will eventually capture or kill these murderers. Our multiracial democracy is here to stay and there is nothing that the white supremacists can do about it. As history has shown since the civil-rights movement in the 1960s, the Federal Government always puts these white supremacists in their place: in prison or kills them in battle while they are trying to commit their murderous acts.
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 2, 2003 at 1:51 AM
Iv`e got a question for{ Good Christina}.Just HOW the hell can an illegal alien pay property taxes?They don`t have property to pay taxes on!And as far as paying payroll and social security taxes,this is a bull shit lie invented by bleeding-heart liberals like yourself to try to justify breaking our lax immigration laws! If anyone believes this bullshit,I have a bridge I`d like to sell you.
Posted by Mike Callahan on Feb 2, 2003 at 7:42 AM
In the past decade 33-52 million illegals and legals arrrived on our shores. 1 in 5 get government cash assistance, 1 in 6 American schoolkids are either from a foreign land or have parents from another country. Throughout this great nations taxpayers are spending hundreds of billions to expand schools, hire new teachers and support this new population through
state and federal initiatives, emergency healthcare and social entitlements. In the meantime AMERICAN needy ( of all races) elderley and veterams see their programs CUT as money is diverted to pay for the new programs for new folks. Then we have the issue of SOME of these olks being hardened criminals emigrating here to conduct business and terrorize AMERICAN families because of our governments refusal to control our borders. The bottom line is folks like Simcox should be applauded not demonized and more AMERICANS need to get involved to stop this massive flow of illeglas through constant pestering of our politicians. To do otherwise is simply un AMERICAN.
Posted by Chester Polwin on Feb 2, 2003 at 8:15 AM
—
To the People of Texas and All Americans in the World—
Fellow Citizens and Compatriots
I am besieged with a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna. I have sustained a continual Bombardment and cannonade for 24 hours and have not lost a man. The enemy has demanded surrender at discretion, otherwise, the garrison is to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken. I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, and our flag still waves proudly over the wall. I shall never surrender or retreat. Then, I call on you in the name of Liberty, of patriotism, of everything dear to the American character, to come to our aid with all dispatch. The enemy is receiving reinforcements daily and will no doubt increase to three or four thousand in four or five days. If this call is neglected I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible and die like a solder who never forgets what is due his honor and that of his country.
VICTORY OR DEATH
William Barret Travis
Lt. Col. Comd’t
Posted by Lets Roll on Feb 2, 2003 at 8:46 AM
For those of you who cry intolerance on behalf of Chris Simcox and those of us who support him. I remind you that the Hispanic population of the United States exceeded 37 million this year, replacing blacks as the largest minority group. More than half of that 37 million are illegal aliens or spawn of illegal aliens. I tell you now that the American people HAVE been exceedingly tolerant of illegal immigration and HAVE respected human rights. For more than 40 years the American people have been tolerant, to the extent that our American population is being displaced and replaced - by illegal aliens and their spawn. For 40 years the American people have beseeched the Federal Government to take a hand in controling abuses of illegal aliens, and those pleas have fallen on deaf ears. For 40 years the American people have pled with illegal aliens to halt their abuse of our sovereign nation and to abide by our laws, even altering our laws with such things as amnesty for illegal aliens. Those pleas have again fallen on deaf ears. Patience has worn thin. Tolerance is at an end. May your pleas to the Federal Government receive as much attention as did the pleas of the American people for the past 40 years. May your bleats for human rights receive the same response received by Americans from those who abuse our laws.
Take no prisoners.
Posted by Lets Roll on Feb 2, 2003 at 9:15 AM
White supremacists like to make up statistics that don’t even make sense. If 33-52 millions immigrants came every year, the United States would be doubling its population every 6-7 years. Yet from 1990 to 2000, the population increased by 30 million and by 60 million from 1980 to 2000 according to the U.S. Census Bureau. One million legal immigrants come here every year and there are a total of 7 million illegal immigrants (40% of illegal immigrants are in California) according to the INS.
The Personal Responsibility and Work Reconciliation Act of 1996 (i.e., the welfare reform law) made immigrants ineligible for welfare and social security disability insurance. Illegal immigrants with fake social security cards can get jobs, pay taxes and buy a home. Is that so hard to understand?
The growth of the Latino population is inevitable and there is nothing that white supremacists can do about it. The Federal Government will not start a holocaust campaign against Latinos or other people of color. The U.S. government is a multiracial democracy on the side of civil rights, human rights and the rule of law. Why don’t you white supremacist cowards fight the Federal Government instead of murdering unarmed poor Mexicans? Because you will roll right into your graves or into Federal prisons.
White supremacists need to actually start reading studies on the impact of immigration on this country instead making up exaggerated silly claims. According to the Century Foundation’s 2000 Immigration Reform report (http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Basics/Immigration/Impact.html):
* Immigration does not have a substantial impact given the size and dynamics of the U.S. economy. The economic impact of immigration is yields gains of $1 billion to $10 billion a year.
* “Immigrants contribute to public coffers directly by paying the usual array of federal, state, and local taxes that citizens pay.”
* “On balance… the aggregate long-term fiscal impact of immigration is likely to be positive, particularly at the federal level. Those states with high immigration levels are likely to see negative long-term fiscal impacts.”
* There are an estimated 5 million illegal aliens in this country increasing by 275,000 annually. “There is not a great deal of evidence that the level of illegal immigration materially harms the United States… [T]hey tend to take jobs that U.S. workers will not do.”
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 2, 2003 at 1:11 PM
To {A good Christian in the U.S.A.}.How can an illegal alien pay taxes?THEY DON`T! And as far as illegal aliens doing jobs that Americans won`t do,there is a reason for it.THEY DO NOT PAY TAX!!!!Every penny they earn,they get! Call me a white supremacist,racist,or whatever the usual liberal name tag is for anyone stating the facts.I don`t care.I`m none of these.I just tell it like it is.I have nothing against the Mexican people.My gripe is with the government for refusing to stop illegals from coming into the country in the first place.Also,{Good Christians} are supposed to respect the rule of law.We have laws against illegal immigration.And,by the way whatever happened to the billions of dollars of tax payer money we sent to Mexico to help their economy?
Posted by Mike Callahan on Feb 2, 2003 at 1:41 PM
Illegal immigrants who use fake social security cards pay payroll and social security taxes deducted directly from their pay checks; if they bought homes, then they also pay property taxes. Illegal immigrants who are paid in cash (“off the books”) do not pay taxes. Would you take an off-the-books job at $3-5 dollars per hour without being taxed and with no medical insurance or retirement benefits? All immigrants legal and illegal pay sales taxes.
The border with Mexico is about 1,500 miles long. It is impossible for the Federal Government to stop all illegal immigrants from crossing the border. I am not against the Federal Government from deporting people caught crossing the border illegally. I am against vigilantes murdering people for crossing the border.
In any event, the more resources the Federal Government invests to stop 275,000 illegal immigrants per year from coming into the country, the more of a fiscal impact illegal immigration will have on the Federal budget. Right now immigrants don’t have a substantial economic or fiscal impact on the country as the Century Foundation’s study shows. Do you really think that 7 million (2.5% of the US population) people are bankrupting an economy of 280 million people and $10 trillion dollars?
Christ criticized the Jewish religious leadership of his day because they turned Moses’ ten commandments into hundreds of laws in which they were the sole judges meting out punishment. He said that only God can be the judge of people’s sins and he simplified all the arbitrary religious laws into one: the commandment to love. Love your neighbor as you love yourself. Remember his message that he who has no sin cast the first stone? Christ was saying that God’s will is higher and more important than man’s laws.
Mexico repaid the $40 billion dollar loan made in 1994 to bail out their economy and prevent Mexico from totally defaulting on its debt.
Posted by A Believer in Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 2, 2003 at 4:22 PM
To {A good Christian}
Jesus also said “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar`s,and unto God the things that are God`s”.And,how do you or any one else possibly know that these illegal Mexicans were killed by so-called ‘vigilantes’?I would protect my property,too.And as far as illegals not having an impact on the economy,tell that to the people in California,who are seeing the medical care system going under because of so many illegal Mexicans using it,at no cost!Mexican women come across the border in California to have their children in American hospitals.They can`t be deported,because their child is then a natural-born citizen.We pick up the tab.I believe in helping people,but they are taking advantage of our system.And we`re the one`s who pay
Posted by Mike Callahan on Feb 2, 2003 at 4:52 PM
There has been some mention of intelligence - people calling others “dumb ass”, others worried about others’ iq’s. As a high school English teacher, I see this same phenomena in my classes. Silly boys and girls will point out others’ weaknesses so people don’t have time to notice their own faults. “Hello, pot? This is the kettle. You’re black.”
Educate yourselves - not on tv but on reality. Read something other than the newspaper written at an 8th grade level. Question what’s happening to us as a nation. Maybe when you’ve done all that, you won’t have to stoop to name calling. There won’t be any need for it.
Posted by Antonia on Feb 2, 2003 at 7:45 PM
Mike Callahan, see my message posted on 2/2/03 at 2:51AM regarding why the argument that coyotes did it doesn’t make sense. White supremacists are using coyotes as scapegoats for their murders. Do you think that it is acceptable to kill people crossing desert land that isn’t privately owned?
The Century Foundation study showed that overall, at the Federal level, immigration has no significant impact economically or fiscally (net gain in taxes in the $1-10 billion range; the Federal budget is $2 trillion), but that states with higher levels of illegal immigration like California bear a fiscal burden due to emergency medical costs and public school education. The Federal Government should either devote more border-patrol resources to California or increase its health and education subsidies to California given that its failure to patrol the borders more effectively lead to California’s problems in the first place. California’s real problem is that Enron and other wholesale energy-trading companies were colluding in price-fixing and overcharing California consumers over $8 billion dollars two years ago when utilities were deregulated. Governor Gray Davis signed 30-year contracts with the same price-gouging energy wholesalers at hugely inflated prices to try to stabilize energy prices before the price gouging was uncovered. Now the state can’t balance its budget. California is suing to have the energy wholesalers pay them back.
Actually, illegal immigrants who bear children here in the U.S. can be and are deported by the INS despite the fact that their children are U.S. citizens. The children who are U.S. citizens have the right to return to the United States when they turn 18 years old.
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 2, 2003 at 7:48 PM
......Its the worst kind of racism: that one group of individuals recieve a better spin on their plight than others from the media. Take note: there are millions of disadvantaged people on this planet that would love to come here, but because of geological distance, political affiliation, money, race, or religion, they may never get the chance. We have opened a floodgate from Mexico, writing a blank check to fix that country’s economic mismanagement and failure, at the American taxpayers’ expense; these people deserve help from their country, not ours. The American people deserve our country’s help, much more than a tax refund. Our government, regardless of political alignment, has betrayed the American people with this flood of illegal immigrants, letting the wealthy profit from the influx of cheap labor, while eroding our quality of life. All illegal immigrants, regardless of country of origin, are technically criminals; if Mexico was an Islamic country, all of these people would have been detained and deported already, without as many media tears, and little public outcry….......for God’s Sake, please, NO MORE LIES….....!
Posted by Bobby on Feb 3, 2003 at 12:03 AM
Didn’t our government say (and it’s even on the Statue of Liberty): give me your poor, hungry, and tired masses yearning to breathe free? As they say, be careful what you ask for because you might just get it. This is what happens when we promote ourselves as the world’s champion of freedom and democracy.
We have promoted immigration to this country because Corporate America, who really controls the Federal Government with their campaign contributions to politicians of both parties, has always wanted a resupply of cheap sources of labor regardless of race, color, creed or national origin.
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 3, 2003 at 7:39 AM
Hey,Good Christian in the U.S.A.:
You call yourself “A believer in the rule of law”?You can`t be.You don`t believe in the rule of law when it comes to our immigration laws! Let`s just do away with borders,laws,and immigration policies,and let all people come into America!Let`s give all illegal Mexicans a good job,welfare,food stamps,a house,a car to drive,free medical care,don`t tax them,and send their kids to college!Hell yeah!If your an American citizen you have all this.You have it made.Right?So let`s just open our borders and be one big happy family! Hell yeah! You seem to be the big liberal expert on immigration.What would you think of this idea?
Posted by Mike Callahan on Feb 3, 2003 at 8:35 AM
It’s so sad that instead of dealing with the millions of American citizens who’ve lost their jobs to globalization policies and can’t work jobs because, $3.00, won’t feed any American let alone one with a family. Where are the articles about America’s inner globalization? About all the poor americans unable to find jobs because businesses keep employing the people who cross the borders illegally.
Posted by Bob Maxwell on Feb 3, 2003 at 10:17 AM
A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law, A Good Christina, where does the information, that you base your opinion on, originate?
Posted by G. Wildfire on Feb 3, 2003 at 10:33 AM
The Mexican government, actually REFUSED for YEARS, to tell it
Posted by G. Wildfire on Feb 3, 2003 at 10:36 AM
Every
Posted by G. Wildfire on Feb 3, 2003 at 10:37 AM
Good Christian,
Thus far the courts have disagreed with you regarding the $8 billion over-charge for energy to CA. The tentative amount has been determined to be much less. Factoring in the amounts that CA still owes, the net is such that CA owes money to the energy providers. Regarding the long term contracts, the free market rewards the intelligent and punishes the not so intelligent. As it should. CA re-elected Davis. They deserve what they get.
You are correct in saying that people can be deported even if they have children who are US citizens. But I do not remember any clause in the Immigration and Naturalization Act that states that the US-citizen child must also leave the US upon deportation of the parent, and that the child must wait until the age of 18 to return. I think the child can come and go as any other US citizen. By being born on US soil, the child is a US citizen. With few exceptions (and some say no exceptions), this citizenship cannot be revoked.
Posted by wandering spirit on Feb 3, 2003 at 12:23 PM
The investigative “evidence” against coyotes assumes that local law enforcement in the Arizona border are is credible. Big “liberal” cities like New York and Los Angeles have problems with racism and corruption in their police departments; this is evident in the Abner Louima case in New York in the mid 1990s in which police officers shoved a plunger up a black Haitian immigrant’s anus and in Los Angeles only three years ago there was the Rampart division scandal in which police officers were drug trafficking, murdering and framing immigrants and people of color calling them “gang members” and drug dealers. The U.S. Justice Department had to take jurisdiction over the Los Angeles Police Department because of the civil and human rights violations. Police brutality by local law enforcement against people of color and immigrants is widespread throughout this country. In the 1960s, the Federal Government had to intervene in the South to end the Jim Crow system of apartheid because local law enforcement had ties to and/or sympathy for white supremacists. It is typical for corrupt local law enforcement officials to attack the character of the victims during cover ups.
I will believe that coyotes did it and that the white supremacists were not involved after investigations by the State of Arizona and Federal Government law enforcement officials. This may be happening soon as Governor Janet Napolitano and Attorney General Terry Goddard seem to be interested in looking into the border murders issue and in heading off any escalation of violence according to the Arizona Republic (http://www.arizonarepublic.com/special03/articles/1219vigilantefolo.html).
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 3, 2003 at 10:19 PM
Regarding the California energy crisis, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) found preliminary evidence of price fixing by Enron and its affiliates (see http://www.ferc.gov/Electric/ bulkpower/PA02-2/Initial-Report-PA02-2-000.pdf) The case is still not resolved with the FERC, which will start investigating company by company. A FERC judge did say that California cannot demand that the long-term contracts be renegotiated with the twelve energy suppliers because the market-price fixing is still an ongoing investigation (http://www.energyusernews.com/CDA/Article Information/news/news_item/0,2588,89812,00.html). California settled with Williams Companies in which it agreed to reduce its long-term contract with the state by $3 billion. Sempra settled with California agreeing to pay back utility consumers $199 million. Reliant Energy settled with California agreeing to pay back $13.8 million for withholding energy supply for two days in June 2000. El Paso Electric Company settled for $14 million and gave up its power trading privileges for two years. Avista Corporation is also in the process of settling with California. The writing seems to be on the wall and that’s why these companies seem to be settling with California. If the FERC’s company-by-company investigations conclude that energy market prices were manipulated, the long-term contracts with California will be voided on the basis of fraud.
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 3, 2003 at 10:26 PM
I loved this article….Oh how slanted thou art. Twisting and spinning the truth…calling illegal aliens victims and the US citizens trying to protect their property criminals…
Arrieta and you other mislead posters need to live just one day down in these areas, or any area were illegals are a major problem.
In Colorado we have a proud hispanic population that have been here long before the white man showed up. The difference is they are Americans. Most I know believe that the unfettered onslaught of illegals is destroying our communities and most support stopping it in any way.
Crime in our state has trippled in farming areas due to your so called migrante worker. School and medical costs have sky rocketed and I personally have had property and my vehicles damaged by these so called victims. Give us a break.
We do not want them here, and we do not need them. They are taking away good jobs in construction, and a lot of higher paying service jobs and most do not spend any money they get in this country, but by god they will take the free handouts the bullsh*t laws says they are entitled too. Services that my own family can not receive even though I paid for it in my taxes.
Im a native of this country. My dad and his dad is a native of this country, and my wifes family goes back to the first natives and spanish priests who came to Colorado and New Mexico.
How far back do you want us to go to claim we have a right to be here?
Come on down and spend a week in the communities trying to fight for their safety and property and come see how our government is not serious about protecting its citizens.
Posted by Headbanger! on Feb 4, 2003 at 6:00 AM
This is in reply to wildfire:
Hundreds of illegals every day bring in thousands of pounds of hemp as they walk over the borders. Most do it for all the same reasons any dealer does it. Money!
If they think they are going to be caught they just dump the load and if not caught do it again and again.
The border patrol has lots of film to prove this every night.
We are in a war all right, with Mexico and its criminals. Our government does not care since they want the minority vote on both parties. Our prez is a lying to all of us citizens in that he cares about our security as a nation when our borders are being overrun and our laws spit on by these losers from Mexico and other nations. Hell, we have holes so big any terrorists could drive a semi with a dirty bomb into the country without any problems.
I am all for giving every US citizen a right to shot and kill these invaders at any cost, but it will take an H-bomb or other 9/11 event to finally force our federal government to do anything…how many lives with be lost due to this stupid policy?
Posted by Headbanger! on Feb 4, 2003 at 6:10 AM
Referring to the CA energy problem, it is your claim for $8 billion that I, and FERC, are disputing. Settlements by some of the energy providers were business decisions, and apparently good ones based on wall street’s reaction, not necessarily admissions of guilt. Though I agree with you that market manipulation very well could have taken place. You argue well, but you are being terribly one-sided on this particular issue. Even non-political sources report that CA’s de-regulation legislation was awful. In Davis’ defense, I believe the legislation was crafted before he took office. Davis’ sin, in my estimation, was his lack of leadership during the crisis, running around the country in the midst of the problem telling everyone it was not his fault, instead of first dealing with the problem.
Posted by wandering spirit on Feb 4, 2003 at 8:34 AM
As much as I am against terrorizing others, the fact remains that these groups would not be doing what they do if the government did their job. Illegal immigration waters down the system in that if you aren’t legal and can’t fill out a census, you will never officially exist and aid from the government will never come to your community, and your required taxes will never go to the proper place (GW’s pockets). Despite my beliefs that all immigrants deserve a place in this country, as we are all immigrants (BTW, our white ancestors were pretty low-IQ by today’s standards, and many still are), I cannot support illegal immigration of any kind, as it takes money away that will never be accounted for, as the earners of these monies are undocumented. My stance: do yourself a favor and gain access to this country legally, so you can be accepted(maybe), have your money and vote count (even though they don’t), and you won’t have to deal with psychotic vigilantes patroling the border.
Posted by BW Castle on Feb 4, 2003 at 11:27 AM
To: A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law A Good Christiana, your latest post says it all: You
Posted by G. Wildfire on Feb 4, 2003 at 7:23 PM
He who has no argument and poor debating skills resorts to name calling and attacking the character of his opponent. He who cannot research and document the sources for his statistics makes them up and believes his own fiction. Ignorance is not bliss, but rather the hate of white supremacists. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. As George Clinton said, “Free Your Mind and Your Ass Will Follow.”
Wandering Spirit, the judge pegged the price-gouging at $1.8 billion. Today, a second Enron official pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit fraud in connection with the California electricity price fixing (of course, to save his own butt and testify against the big shots at Enron). See http://story.news.yahoo.com/news? tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030205/ap_on_bi_ge/enron_trader_6The FERC. The FERC has found new evidence that the California gas market is still being manipulated because of weak market liquidity. See January 30, 2003 LA Times article: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ferc30jan30,0,5184092. story?coll=la-headlines-business It was former Republican Governor Pete Wilson’s brilliant idea to deregulate a monopolistic industry (the role of good ole campaign contributions and special interests at work). I agree with you that Gray Davis was pathetic in the beginning of the crisis whining that it wasn’t his fault. However, he really dropped the ball by signing those long-term contracts instead of having the state utility regulators investigate the causes of the dramatic increases in wholesale prices. For consumers, gas and electric bills went up from about $25 per month to $75-100. The Bush Administration and FERC refused to get involved initially. I think Bush wanted Gray Davis to crash and burn on the energy crisis because he saw him as a potential challenger in the 2004 Presidential election. Bush and the FERC caved in and starting investigating because of the fear that that California economy tanking would cause a prolonged recession nationally.
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 4, 2003 at 10:00 PM
For those of you who want to understand the real causes of the declining middle class and growing income inequality in the U.S. economy, see Princeton University economist Paul Krugman’s (Ph.D. in economics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology) article originally published in the New York Times Magazine with data sources included:
http://www.pkarchive.org/economy/ForRicher.html
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 4, 2003 at 10:23 PM
He who has no argument and poor debating skills resorts to name calling and attacking the character of his opponent. He who cannot research and document the sources for his statistics makes them up and believes his own fiction. Ignorance is not bliss, but rather the hate of white supremacists. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. As George Clinton said, “Free Your Mind and Your Ass Will Follow.”
You still haven’t given your source for you “white supremacists” nonsense. Interesting comment from one such as yourself.
You give no reference source for your constant anti-white comments, your constant accusation of
Posted by Joe on Feb 4, 2003 at 11:49 PM
Good Christian, the $1.8 billion figure is the one I am familiar with. De-regulation in the electric utility industry had been a national idea before Wilson was in office. The concept was not his, but the specific CA legislation came about under him. So in this case I would not say that Wilson was a puppet to special interest groups. De-regulation is going on throughout the country, albiet much slower because of the CA crisis. So far it has met with some success in PA.
It would have been uncharacteristic for a Republican president to get involved with a state problem, but there may have been some political reasons for his inaction like you mentioned. I believe there probably were similar political reasons for Clinton to attack, by action and inaction, the Tobacco companies - strong in states that did not support him.
I objected to your original post about the CA energy crisis because I think the roots of the problem were/are CA’s radical stances on the environment that makes the state vulnerable to the problems, and the pitiful de-regulation legislation and policies. Of course this does not excuse market manipulation, which is a federal crime. But I can see you have your hands full with the real topic of this forum, and I am forcing you to fight a second front (not a good strategy). So I will bow out and give you the last word if you choose. It was a pleasure conversing with you. Do you know of a forum inwhich immigration issues are discussed? I would like to read opinions on the Kim v. Denmore (sp?) case before the Supreme Court regarding mandatory detention. I do not know of any forums that might discuss this issue and other immigration topics. Thank you.
Posted by wandering spirit on Feb 5, 2003 at 11:28 AM
Good Christian, the $1.8 billion figure is the one I am familiar with. De-regulation in the electric utility industry had been a national idea before Wilson was in office. The concept was not his, but the specific CA legislation came about under him. So in this case I would not say that Wilson was a puppet to special interest groups. De-regulation is going on throughout the country, albiet much slower because of the CA crisis. So far it has met with some success in PA.
It would have been uncharacteristic for a Republican president to get involved with a state problem, but there may have been some political reasons for his inaction like you mentioned. I believe there probably were similar political reasons for Clinton to attack, by action and inaction, the Tobacco companies - strong in states that did not support him.
I objected to your original post about the CA energy crisis because I think the roots of the problem were/are CA’s radical stances on the environment that makes the state vulnerable to the problems, and the pitiful de-regulation legislation and policies. Of course this does not excuse market manipulation, which is a federal crime. But I can see you have your hands full with the real topic of this forum, and I am forcing you to fight a second front (not a good strategy). So I will bow out and give you the last word if you choose. It was a pleasure conversing with you. Do you know of a forum inwhich immigration issues are discussed? I would like to read opinions on the Kim v. Denmore (sp?) case before the Supreme Court regarding mandatory detention. I do not know of any forums that might discuss this issue and other immigration topics. Thank you.
Posted by wandering spirit on Feb 5, 2003 at 11:28 AM
Not that long ago all of California, Texas, New MEXICO, Arizona and almost one third of what is now the U.S. was part of Mexico. If my grandparents were born in one of these states and I was born here and my kids are born here, who the f**k gives you the right to kick me and my people out and call us “illegals”. In my ancestors pount of view, all of you racist “scholars are the illegals”.
Posted by Sulay on Feb 5, 2003 at 1:07 PM
Not that long ago all of California, Texas, New MEXICO, Arizona and almost one third of what is now the U.S. was part of Mexico. If my grandparents were born in one of these states and I was born here and my kids are born here, who the f**k gives you the right to kick me and my people out and call us “illegals”. In my ancestors pount of view, all of you racist “scholars are the illegals”.
Posted by Sulay on Feb 5, 2003 at 1:07 PM
The author seems to be endorsing an illegal act. I always understood it to be the right and responsiblity of a US citizen to stop illegal acts and apprehend the criminals.
Posted by mike on Feb 5, 2003 at 3:42 PM
Wandering Spirit, good talking to you too. I am bowing out myself because name calling and “debating” based on emotion is not very productive. White supremacists hate people of color, can’t accept that the United States is a multiracial democracy (don’t we elect our political leaders?), over exaggerate the impact of illegal immigration on this country, and advocate violence and ethnic cleansing as many of the posts on this web site clearly demonstrate. As I said before, I have no problem with our government enforcing its immigration laws, but I am against private citizens taking the law into their own hands by using threats, intimidation and violence to enforce immigration laws. I am for peaceful and respectful relations between people of all races including whites. Hate poisons the soul. As Christ said, love your neighbor as you love yourself; obey the commandment of love. I’ve said all I have to say.
I couldn’t find the mandatory detention case you inquired about, but below are some web sites that might be useful.
Jurist Immigration law:
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/sg_immig.htm
Immigration links:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=US&cat=Immigration
Findlaw’s U.S. Supreme Court case database:
http://www.findlaw.com/casecode/supreme.html
Cornell University’s U.S. Supreme Court collection:
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/index.php
U.S. Supreme Court:
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/
Peace to you Wandering Spirit!
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 5, 2003 at 11:27 PM
Not that long ago all of California, Texas, New MEXICO, Arizona and almost one third of what is now the U.S. was part of Mexico. If my grandparents were born in one of these states and I was born here and my kids are born here, who the f**k gives you the right to kick me and my people out and call us “illegals”. In my ancestors pount of view, all of you racist “scholars are the illegals”.................................THE IDEA OF HISTORICAL OWNERSHIP IS HIGHLY FLAWED; THE LANDS YOU CITE ARE NOW STATES OF THE UNITED STATES, AND AS SUCH, ARE BOUND BY THE LAWS OF OUR COUNTRY. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE BREAKING THE LAW, AND ARE THEREFORE, CRIMINALS…........IT REALLY SUCKS WHEN THE ONLY YOU CAN MAKE ARGUEMENT FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS ‘WE USED TO OWN IT, SO YOU OWE US’. WE HAVE PLENTY OF REAL INDIANS HERE WITH GREATER CLAIMS TO LAND THAN ANY MEXICAN DOES(MEXICANS ARE DECENDED FROM INDIANS AND THE SPANISH, OLD WORLD INVADERS)! AFTER ALL, LOOK AT HOW WELL MEXICANS HAVE MANAGED MEXICO! ITS STILL A THIRD WORLD TOILET, WITH A CORRUPT, SELF SERVING GOVERNMENT, AND A POPULATION THAT DESPERATELY NEEDS A LOT OF BIRTH CONTROL! MEXICO IS A PORTRAIT OF POVERTY WE DON’T WANT HERE IN AMERICA! WANT TO LIVE HERE? TRY LEGAL IMMIGRATION, TRY LEARNING AND SPEAKING ENGLISH, TRY TO BE AN AMERICAN, NOT AN ALIEN, AND EVERYONE WILL RESPECT YOU. TRY A CHANGE OF ATTITUDE, WHILE YOU’RE AT IT! IF I EVER MIGRATE TO CHINA, I PROMISE I WON’T ASK THE CHINESE TO LEARN ENGLISH TO MAKE ME MORE COMFORTABLE! DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL RESIDENTS!
Posted by BOBBY on Feb 5, 2003 at 11:34 PM
RIGHT ON,BOBBY IN 3rd WORLD AMERICA!! THESE PEOPLE THINK WE OWE THEM.I WONDER IF WE WOULD GET FREE MEDICAL CARE IF WE SLIPPED ACROSS THE BORDER INTO MEXICO?i WONDER IF THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT WOULD ENCOURAGE ITS CITIZENS TO LEARN ENGLISH,“TO MAKE US FEEL AT HOME?”. I SURE AS HELL DOUBT IT!
Posted by Mike Callahan on Feb 6, 2003 at 6:00 AM
Hey, Bobby:
Do you know why Mexico doesn`t have an olympic team?Because every damn Mexican who can run,jump,or swim is living in the U.S.!
Posted by Mike Callahan on Feb 6, 2003 at 6:05 AM
A Believer of Democracy (MOB RULE) and the Rule of Law (As long as it
Posted by Seen too many of your type on Feb 6, 2003 at 9:05 AM
I left Santa Cruz, California because my daughter who was in the downtown public elementary school was being attacked by Mexican kids who didn’t live in the school district. This is a suburban 95% white community where the public elementary school is 90% Mexican. I don’t believe illegal aliens collecting illegal welfare, going to an out of area school illegaly, should be attacking the white kids… I don’t believe this is a right, but rather a violent aggressive act condoned by Mexico. It is a war, whether the greedy, lazy, paid off, and threatened by gangs politicians say so or not. These same Mexicans are taking our jobs and buying homes by living 20 to a residence. When I first went to school, I had Mexican friends…now they are gang bangers and we stay the hell away from them. It is a war and I am armed and ready.
Posted by Matthew Seabritght on Feb 6, 2003 at 4:08 PM
AMERICANS STOP INVADING PANAMA, VIETNAM, CUBA, IRAK etc.
Posted by Peace on the world. on Feb 6, 2003 at 4:30 PM
You get what you give, you americans, USA, are invading the fucking world, you’ve got military bases in every country, stop crying about your desperate situation, you organize military putches every 3 years. And don’t forget that you are living in an occupied Land which belongs to AMERICAN INDIANS. STOP your HYPOCRISY.
Posted by Peace on the world. on Feb 6, 2003 at 4:39 PM
Sure, we Americans have empathy for the Mexicans that come to the United States seeking employment, why do you think that our government turns a blind eye? Because we know that they need employment just like the next guy and traditionally they are the ones that do the labor in our orchards, fields, etc. So the Mexicans can’t say that we don’t have a heart. And for those who claim and bellow that America is made up of immigrants who came here for a better life, here is what I have to say as a Native American. So listen! Sure, most of America’s ancestors and forefathers migrated here from Europe a long time ago; but they also (by the grace of God) are the people which helped make this nation great and prosperous. They didn’t come here wanting a piece of the pie, they didn’t come here looking for streets paved of gold. They came and worked hard! They were God fearing people and this nation is now blessed, a nation under God. The problem with the “present” immigrants (mostly illegal) is, they WANT a piece of the apple pie, they come expecting streets of gold. They consider it their right, which it isn’t, cause this isn’t their country. They are essentially, American “wannabes”. I am getting sick and tired of looking for work, only to find in the newspaper, “bilingual speakers need only apply”. This is America! The immigrants from other nations need to learn English! The face of our country is changing, it is becoming an extension of Mexico. Bush needs to do something, I support him and admire him but I will vote for someone else, if he doesn’t do something about this illegal immigration problem. And another thing! Why is it that the only advocates for “undocumented” (don’t you mean “illegal”?) immigrants have hispanic last names? Aren’t these Mexican Americans, sensitive to our nation’s problems, like the immense influx of illegal immigrants (like the Mexicans)? It wouldn’t be so bad if the Mexicans (illegal immigrants) weren’t so BLATANT, they don’t try to adopt our ways and learn English, no we have to learn Spanish!
Posted by Marie on Feb 6, 2003 at 4:47 PM
To “peace on the world” Shut up! I don’t see any other country, and probably not yours, policing the world, other countries don’t have the money or the guts to police the world. If you don’t like Americans, tough luck, they will probably save your butt one of these days!
Posted by Marie on Feb 6, 2003 at 4:54 PM
I read many of the comments on this story, and I am concerned by the amount of blame shifting, assumptions, and even blatant racism displayed. Many argue that illegal immingrants or migrant workers are stealing jobs and services meant for [white] Americans. I can’t speak for the economies in areas close to the border, but I do know that the Bush administration is certainly wreaking more havoc on many of the freedoms, rights and services that Americans (citizens or not) currently enjoy. Take a look at the immense cuts in funding to education, the swandiving economy, and the lessened aid for the poor (legal citizens) in this country. I just think that we need to examine the way our administration is handling (or not handling) this situation before placing blame on a group of people who are simply fleeing economic instability only to find hatred and loathing in the place the have fled to. I understand that illegal immigrants are technically criminals, but I also believe that it is unfortunate and simply untrue to catergorize these people with rapists, murderers, and drug dealers. The social climate for the poor in this country encourages criminality, whether the poor are legal or not. Violence and finger pointing are not a way to solve anything. Instead, we need to better inform ourselves and try to solve these problems by changing the way our administration deals with them and by showing some compassion.
Posted by lisa on Feb 6, 2003 at 5:26 PM
what a bunch of assholes. a few random ideas:
—several posted comments state that because illegal immigrants are here illegally, they do not have any rights. this is incorrect, they merely do not have all of the rights that citizens have.
—how can you blame desperately poor people for sneaking into the united states in the hopes of providing for their families? it is true that this is illegal, but is this immoral? wouldn’t you do the same if you were in their shoes? why are you angry at the illegals themselves?
—nearly EVERY one of the idiotic racist claims made here about illegals and mexicans, i.e. “they’re lazy, violent, criminal, they’re in gangs, they deal drugs, they don’t want to learn english, they’re taking over, they don’t want to assimilate,“etc. have been made about immigrant groups for centuries. such claims have been made about groups such as irish-, german-, italian-, and polish-americans. racist sentiment existed against these groups; they were not considered white.
—finally, i’d just like to say to foreigners reading this that the hateful posts here are from angry, idiotic extremists and in no way represent the views of the normal americans
Posted by jbm on Feb 6, 2003 at 6:08 PM
legal and illegal aliens have more rights that the native americans. the government spends billions on thses non-americans while most of the people on the reservations are living in poverty. why doesn’t the government help those that belong here instead of those that don’t.
when aliens come here they should have to know how to read and write english. most don’t and never do learn the english language and when they get into trouble they use their ignorance as and excuse. teachers in the school have to teach them in their own language when they should be taught in english.
legal aliens can get state and government while elderly americans can barely get by each month. if we got rid of all the aliens in the u.s. the government could help the elderly and poor with health care.
Posted by dcjames on Feb 6, 2003 at 6:15 PM
The electoral college only chooses the President, but they cast their vote for the President on a state-by-state basis according to the winner of the popular vote of their respective states. All other elected officials are elected directly by popular vote.
Actually, illegal immigrants are not criminals. U.S. immigration laws are Federal administrative laws. A violation of U.S. immigration laws (e.g., crossing the border without a visa, permanent residence or citizenship) is an illegal act and the person who violates it is an illegal alien. The sanction for violating immigration laws is a loss of immigration rights and/or deportation. When an illegal alien is caught, he or she is temporarily detained (not the same as imprisoned) until he or she gets a hearing before an immigration administrative law judge, who evaluates the facts of the case, decides if the person broke any administrative laws and then determines if he or she should be deported back to the country where he or she is a citizen. Even the illegal alien is entitled to due process before an immigration administrative law judge.
A criminal is someone who violates a criminal law (e.g., murder, rape, theft, kidnapping, drug trafficking, etc.). The sanction for committing a crime can be a fine, probation, prison, or the death penalty. The accused criminal is entitled to a trial by jury and, if convicted, can and often does lose his or her freedom and is imprisoned until he or she serves the sentence imposed by the judge. That is due process in criminal law.
An illegal alien would not become a criminal until he or she violated a criminal law. Solely living in the United States would not make an illegal alien a criminal unless he or she violated a criminal law.
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 6, 2003 at 7:30 PM
It was an investigative conclusion that the Arizona local law enforcement officials made that coyotes are responsible for the killings based on a theory (i.e., speculation) given the previous immigration violations (illegal acts) of the victims; no one was caught in the act of killing, no weapons were found and there is no ballistic evidence, which means that there is not much evidence that coyotes did it. This suspect investigative conclusion may change should the State of Arizona and Federal law enforcement officials investigate because of the suspicious context of armed “citizen militias” patrolling the border. I am questioning the credibility and lack of evidence of Arizona local law enforcement officials in their investigative conclusion given the endemic problems of racism and corruption in local law enforcement agencies throughout this country, and the hatred and violent tendencies of white supremacist groups, who have a historical track record of vigilantism. The State of Arizona and Federal Government investigations will set the record straight regarding the facts surrounding the murders after searching for more evidence, which might include surveillance of the white-supremacist groups to see if they catch them in the act.
My previous posts referenced immigration and economic studies as well as census and INS data which showed that there aren’t that many illegal aliens in this county, illegal immigration does not have a substantial impact on the economy and it is not the cause of the declining middle class and growing income inequality.
Learn the differences between a fact, an unsubstantiated or false opinion, and a lie (which is an intentional, false statement). I am finally ready to retire from this debate.
For those of you with so much hate in your hearts, I will pray for your souls that you learn to love your Mexican neighbor as you love yourself, and for peaceful relations among all races and ethnicities. Learn compassion, tolerance and charity. That’s what Christ and the Lord would want.
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 6, 2003 at 7:36 PM
To “A Believer of Democracy” (Mob Rule DUMB ASS, us voting, isn’t what makes it a Democracy.) you’re A Good Pharisee, who calls yourself a “Christian”, you are a liar, and the truth isn’t in you.
And the sad part is, you KNOW it!
Now run along little Pharisee, there’s a WHITE person stoning, that has a pile of rocks with for you to throw! Go in peace little biggot!
Posted by Seen too many of your type on Feb 6, 2003 at 8:04 PM
Final point of clarification: An illegal act is not a crime. Illegal acts are violations of civil or administrative laws. Immigration laws, as administrative laws, are not penal in nature (i.e., meant to punish); they are meant to regulate the amount of foreign nationals admitted to this country for the purposes of visiting or living here permanently. Criminal laws are penal in nature, meant to punish (i.e., retribution) criminal behavior as defined by statute (e.g., murder, rape, theft, assault, battery, sale or possession of drugs, etc.) through imprisonment and loss of freedom. Peace, love and nonviolence to all!
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 6, 2003 at 8:34 PM
O’l Good Christian is a real immigration information computer! But there`s something wrong with this ‘information computer’.It is infected with a liberal virus!This person is a liar when they say they are ‘A believer in the rule of law’.Liberals believe in the rule of law when they can bend it to fit their agenda.Yes, I agree that our fore fathers took the land from the Indians.But we were born here.We can`t help that.It`s just like the liberals thnk we should give all black people who had ancesters who were slaves millions of dollars.Slavery was an evil national tragedy,but I`m not responsible for what my ancesters did.I don`t owe black Americans anything except an equal chance to succeed,and respect.Same liberal argument on gun control.Liberals would love to see all law-abiding Americans lose their gun rights.They want us to pay the price because of lunatics who commit murders with guns.And they say to hell with immigration laws that would stop wave after wave of illegal Mexicans from crossing our borders.They see issues in shades of gray,rather than clear-cut black-and-white.
Posted by Mike Callahan on Feb 7, 2003 at 3:14 AM
The flood of Illegal Mexicans is costing the citizens of this country MILLIONS of $$$ everyday just in health care. Who do you liberals think pays their medical expenses ? We do thru ever increasing health insurance costs. Hospitals simply pass the costs on to the paying customer <read insurance carriers>, who pass it on to the insured <read you and me>.
I am not saying this is the only reason for growing health care costs, but it does have a large impact. Even here in Michigan, far away from the southren border.
Mr. Simcox has my support 100%.
If I lived in AZ. , I’d join him on his patrols.
Posted by JAG 45 CAl on Feb 7, 2003 at 6:04 AM
Mr. Good Christian piousness causes me to genuflect every time I read his passages. It borders on narcissism, for (Christ’s) sake. However, far be it from me tarnish His golden crown or soil his velvet robe. Bless me father, for I too have sinned. Reality check: The rise of gang-related violence here in NJ during the last 10 years coincides with the increase of illegal aliens in this State. Most of the gang membership consists of Mexicans and other groups from Central America and the Carribean (Dominicans, Jamaicans and Haitians in particular). Reality check 2: The school system in NJ and NY is in shambles: over-crowded and ill-equipped to handle the hoards of illegal alien children. Reality check 3: Need I mention the drain on social and health services ? Reality check 4: Has anyone noticed the increase in Americans on bread lines ? I’ve worked in the social service sector in New York for the last 18 years. While I’m intrigued by Mr. Good Christian’s erudition and eloquence, He must remember that: No good deed goes unpunished. For the last 40 years, the US has undergone a change which has turned the country from a well-defined Republic to an open market democracy—a way station for the transient Nationalist. Note the increase in this country of people who have dual-citizenship. Note people who retire and return to their countries of origins. I’m privy to the hundreds of thousands of pension and social security checks that are mailed monthly OUT OF THE COUNTRY !
Posted by vern on Feb 7, 2003 at 11:46 AM
If Mr. Good Chrisitian thinks that the hordes of aliens crawling across the border are going to become good upstanding citizens, valuing the achievements of the individuals whose sweat and blood made this country great, He’s in for a rude awakening. As a former Jesuit student, I am well aware of the intoxication of theology, especially within the Christian concept. This “corporate society” demands its adherents follow the living Christ—all must be suffering servants. That’s what makes a good chrisitian. Jesuits are root missionaries. The purpose was to educate the masses about Christianity and at the same time educate and intellectualize. Mr. G.C. sounds like a Luthern. , since Chritianity is too broad a definition. Fides and fiducia- intellect coupled with child-like devotion to the “Redeemer”. The commonality in the writings of Martin Luther (95 Theses; Appeal to the Christian Nobility of the German Nation) and Ignatius Loyola and Francis Xavier are those of rigid scholasticism. I know I’m far afield in this discussion, but I just wanted to point out that no matter what information is brought to the table , Mr. G.C. will counter and justify His point of view, concession being minimal to zilch. Understand what He means by saying He is a “good chrisitian”- we’re not unless we accept the unacceptable. Predestination vs. free will.
Posted by vern on Feb 7, 2003 at 11:47 AM
BTW, least anyone think I’m another (yawn) “white, racist , backwoods yahoo”, I’m not. I’m an American of African descent, Vietnam-vet, with a Masters in Public Administration. I’m also fed up with the PC garbage that has bogged down this country for the last 40 years. I was at work in downtown NY on 9/11. I was one block from the Trade Center, was buying a coffee at the breakfast cart when the first plane hit , watched the bodies fall, and was there when the buildings fell. For an few hours, there was no government, police or United States—just people helping each other. No PC, no racist reverends, or Hollywood celebrities. No peace marchers, or limo driving, millionaire liberal politicians. No ACLU, La Raza, no leftists, or ‘60’s leftovers. No text-book revisionists who claim historical white males are the source of all evil or “conservative blacks” is a contradiction in terms. Just people, now fearful people, who are watching our way of life deteriorate because our government has given up and given in. Got bullets?
Posted by vern on Feb 7, 2003 at 12:05 PM
Just one more salient point: The land was never taken from the Indians. “Natives” did not believe or understand that nature could be “owned”. Our manifest destiny was to aquire and incorporate, not displace, as written by the forefathers in the Federalist Papers. They also believed that natural resources should not be held hostage, thereby depriving a nation of it’s manifest destiny (by God) to progress for the good of it’s citizenry. We don’t want another countries oil resources, because we believe it is a world resource. But because we respect that the resource lies within that nations borders, we, as a capitalist nation, believe in commerce. A fair market price for a necessary commodity. However, deprive us of a resource, refuse to reasonably bargain, then, well, war is justified. Oil companies were bought up (by majority stock) back in the ‘40’s by the Arabs and has been held since. We woke up to the reality of “hostage taking” back in the ‘70’s with the oil embargo. Never again.
Posted by vern on Feb 7, 2003 at 12:21 PM
Illegals are illegals, plain and simple. And yes, many other countries are having the same illegal migration problems and they are doing something about it too, haven’t you been reading the papers? Sure, these third world people want to migrate to a prosperous nation “for a better life”, but ENOUGH is enough! Stay home, most Americans are fed up, can you blame them?! And please stay on the subject!
Posted by marie on Feb 7, 2003 at 12:24 PM
B. White,
You put it exactly as it is! Mexicans want to turn this into the United States Of Mexico and they will eventually succeed, unless someone stops them! God bless Chris Simcox!
Posted by John Cline Jr. on Feb 7, 2003 at 12:40 PM
I am saddened by the number of ignorant and hateful people who claim to represent the way of the right America. I work with immigrants daily. They pay taxes, own homes, own businesses (that employ Americans), they obey the law, respect others, and are simply trying to better their lot in life and to give their children a chance at a future where sufficient food, shelter, and education are not dreams. This includes those that came in illegally. Given the chance any one of them would pay any amount of money in fines/fees to become legal. If the immigration laws in this country were more lenient, there wouldn’t be a need for violence or hate personified walking the borders.
As for Mexican illegals coming in and taking away jobs from Americans—how many Americans (whites especially) do you know that would work the jobs the illiegals take? How many would work construction for $40 a day, how many want to scrub toilets, clean out deep-fat friers, work as buss-boys, work in the blazing summer sun to make your yard beautiful? All for often less than minimum wage?
Posted by K on Feb 7, 2003 at 1:37 PM
K from Atlanta:
Here we go again.People being called ‘mean and hateful’ because some people tell it like it is,instead of having a bleeding-heart liberal opinion!You claim that illegal immigrants pay taxes.You say that illegals obey the laws.First off,illegals DO NOT pay tax.And,if their so good about obeying the law,then why are 37% of all federal prisoners in the U.S. illegal aliens?And the large majority of these are Hispanic.And the argument you make about about ‘illegals doing jobs Americans won`t do,I`ve heard so many times I`m sick of hearing it.The reason they do these jobs,is because THEY DON`T PAY TAXES!!! They get every damn penny they make.If Americans didn`t get their asses taxed off,then,yes,they would be willing to do these jobs too.You say that illegals only want to find food,shelter,and education for their children.
The damn government GIVES them all this,at no cost!! They get food stamps,welfare,and child care FREE! We pay their medical costs for them,too,so they can keep having one child after another.And,as far as our immigration being more lenient,how the hell could it be any more lenient than it is now?No wonder the citizens of Arizona have to patrol their own borders.Our illegal immigrant-loving government won`t stop them.I only wish I could be there to help these citizens protect their property.
Posted by Mike Callahan on Feb 7, 2003 at 4:19 PM
There goes Mike Callahan and his cohorts making up statistics again. How many illegal immigrants are there (floods or hordes; now that’s specific!)? How much in services do they use (millions and billions; now that’s specific!)? How much in taxes do they supposedly drain (millions and billions; now that’s specific!)? Cite your sources instead of making up fiction. Like usual arguing in circles unsubstantiated and false opinions.
Illegal immigrants who use fake social security cards pay payroll and social security taxes deducted directly from their pay checks; if they bought homes, then they also pay property taxes. Illegal immigrants who are paid in cash (“off the books”) do not pay taxes. Would you take an off-the-books job at $3-5 dollars per hour without being taxed and with no medical insurance or retirement benefits? All immigrants legal and illegal pay sales taxes. Immigrants legal or illegal are not eligible for welfare and social security disability insurance since the passage of the Personal Responsibility and Work Reconciliation Act of 1996 (the welfare reform law). See the Century Foundation’s Immigration Reform report on the actual fiscal and economic impacts of immigration on this country in statistical terms (the Federal Government collects a net gain from $1-10 billion in taxes): http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Basics/Immigration/Impact.html
See the following web sites on how many illegal aliens there are in this country according to the INS and Census Bureau (5-8 million, just 2.9% of the total U.S. population of 281 million):
http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/statistics/illegalalien/
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/ 20030131-9999_1n31immig.html
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/QTTable?ds_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U& geo_id=01000US&qr_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U_DP1
See Princeton University economist Paul Krugman’s article on the real causes of the declining middle class and growing income inequality in the US economy, which includes data sources:
http://www.pkarchive.org/economy/ForRicher.html
The U.S. Federal Budget is 2.2 trillion dollars; the U.S. economy is 10 trillion dollars (http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2004/). Millions and billions are small percentages of 2.2 and 10 trillion dollars. Learn statistics and the meaning of SUBSTANTIAL impact.
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 7, 2003 at 8:42 PM
A RESPONSE TO k from Atlanta: Yeah, k. I used to work with Mexican immigrants, legal and illegal, at a furniture factory in Elkin, N.C. They started hiring them as temps to help out because all us white and black folks working there was collecting too much overtime pay! I started out at about $6.50 an hour, and was making the same when I was ‘let go’ about a year later. It was actually my second stint there, as I left the first time because I did not get a raise for the year and half I worked there the first time. Isn’t it astonishing that so many high school grads like me had to settle for such a low paying job? Well, the temps make a lot less, so by the time I was gone, a lot of my friends and neighbors were gone, too. After firing me, they then told the unemployment office that I ‘quit’. I got my unemployment because I proved they were total liars. I still have a few friends, both white and black, hanging on, but there days are numbered. The company in question was cited at least once for hiring illegal, undocumented workers, before I worked there the second time. Please quit repeating the same lies about how Mexican immigrant workers don’t take American jobs away from American workers. The mexicans who work for this company now, do not work any harder than the white and black people they replaced; just cheaper…...........if you can’t think for yourself, don’t bother posting. Its not a racial issue. Its an economic one. American needs Mexico to take care of the mexicans…......
Posted by Bobby on Feb 7, 2003 at 9:19 PM
The real problem with this country is that only 15.5% of the population has college degrees (http://factfinder.census.gov/bf/_lang=en_vt_name= DEC_2000_SF3_U_DP2_geo_id=01000US.html). In this information age and knowledge-based economy, those with only high school diplomas fall further and further behind the college educated in pay and job security. For more information on the nature of the U.S. economy, see: http://factfinder.census.gov/bf/_lang=en_vt_name= DEC_2000_SF3_U_DP3_geo_id=01000US.html
The lesson learned: invest some time and money into going to college. Don’t blame others for your life decisions.
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 7, 2003 at 9:47 PM
A Response to: A Good Christian in the USA…......I love people like you; you dig up all kinds of great stuff to support your point of view, but you fail to provide the solution to the overall problem, namely, what do we do about illegal immigration? You obviously don’t work in a coal mine, factory, or restaurant, or you would see a large number of white and black faces staring back at you. Its a myth that Americans don’t take low wage jobs, a myth perpetuated by the people who employ immigrants to keep labor costs down, and by our government, who is owned by big business and special interest groups. You apparently work in the same offworld fantasy land that k from Atlanta does, where we are all one big happy family that helps out the poor mexicans by offering them out worst labor opportunities. Apparently the displaced American workers (white, black, or other) are all a bunch of lazy racists, whining because of unfair competition for jobs they would not do anyway. The Americans who work these sweaty, dirty, and low paying jobs do so because they have families to provide for and bills to pay, just like you. I worked in factories for years, for crappy wages, slow raises, and few benefits. NOT CONVINCED? My brother works in construction. My nephew at a steel mill. I have friends who work at a factory I used to work at in Bristol, Va., recapping tires. I have friends working at my old loading dock job, loading trucks by hand for a living. I have a few left at the furniture plant, none of them making a fortune. All are high school grads, some with a few years of college, just like me. All of these jobs are hot, sweaty, hard, time-consuming, non-salary, and low pay. Your attitude is a slap in the face to every American that works for a living. You repeat the same lies that you have been told like drunken parrot, because its easier to believe than to admit the truth. You can cite anything you want to support your point of view, but unless you’re willing to get down in the ditch and get your hands dirty, you’re just making yourself look self-righteous and ignorant. I quietly wonder what you do to pay your bills, and just where the hell you get off thinking you know what its like to kill yourself to get by…..........I DON’T EXPECT YOU TO AGREE WITH ME. I JUST WANT YOU TO STOP REPEATING THE LIES….........
Posted by Bobby on Feb 7, 2003 at 9:49 PM
What are the differences between a fact, an argument with supporting facts and evidence, an unsubstantiated opinion, a false opinion, and a lie? Please define them. Obviously, some people can’t figure this out.
Posted by A Believer in Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 7, 2003 at 10:28 PM
......Dear ‘A Good Christian in the USA’......apparently, you got your degree. I have a couple years of college, but had to quit to support my family when my Dad died. I have friends with certifications and degrees. They work, but not in their field of study. One of them is an accountant. You presume that everyone that is not up to your level of success is a loser who made the wrong life decisions. You also presume to think that everyone who gets a degree gets the quick road to success. You also presume that everyone has the intelligence, aptitude, and opportunity to go to college. You presume way too much! You confuse the issue: these people coming into our country, have a negative impact on our lives! Everyone understands their plight, but you’re saying that we all have to accept them coming here and go retrain if we lose our jobs. The fact that American citizens are detaining these people on their own should indicate how desperate they believe the problem is. You are clearly not personally affected by illegal immigration. IF ONLY THE REST OF US COULD LIVE IN YOU SECURE LITTLE WORLD! Your problem is that you haven’t had enough bad shit happen to you. Well, in the name of God, curse you! Let the wheel come on around for your turn at misery. Let you have your turn at unemployment. Let you realize your education needs a little more retooling. Let all the bad that could happen to you, happen to you, so you might understand. If God is just, he will make you understand what its like to try so hard, and still fail. Its your turn. I hope it comes around for you real soon…........
Posted by Bobby on Feb 7, 2003 at 10:55 PM
border militias are vigilantes (unsponsored by government or any branch of law enforcement) that confuse the consequence of the problem with the actual issue. our foreign policy dictates that illegal immigration be a problem. perhaps if we first turn the focus on what our people and government does, then illegal immigration could be solved.
Posted by n. on Feb 7, 2003 at 11:15 PM
‘What are the differences between a fact, an argument with supporting facts and evidence, an unsubstantiated opinion, a false opinion, and a lie? Please define them. Obviously, some people can’t figure this out.’
Posted by: A Believer in Democracy and the Rule of Law on 2.7.03 | 11:28 pm from A Good Christian in the USA…..........................................I’m not trying to refute your facts, and they may well be accurate, but insinuate that what I am saying is less than truthful. The people and places meantioned in my posts are real; don’t refute my life experiences as if its all a HBO movie, just because you have a degree and don’t have to struggle anymore. Its great that you had the opportunity to go to school and work hard enough to succeed at it; try not to forget the rest of us, who want to do better, but are having a hard enough time as it is, without the added competition from third world refugees. Its obvious you’ll be in a Mansion in heaven, while people like me will be lucky to scrub the floor(or do all poor or unlucky bastards who make wrong ‘life decisions’ go to Hell?).............
Posted by Bobby on Feb 7, 2003 at 11:17 PM
The extensive networking these border militias have done is at once evident and cause for concern. The fact that so many posts in opposition to this article seem to come from supporters of the groups indicates a concerted effort to delegitimize the article by virtue of volume. What it all boils down to is that were these white men to be interested in an actual solution, they would not be so strongly opposed. They also belie their lack of both insight and understanding of global politics. Were they to open their closed minds for even a minute, the knowledge they would receive could be enough to turn them into the next internal terrorist cell. Why does is make sense to turn your anger and frustration on a group of people that are simply doing the American thing by actively pursuing their only option for a better life? It only makes sense from a prejudiced perspective. To those that believe illegal immigrants take jobs away - first of all, many jobs that illegal immigrants end up with are jobs that other Americans simply won’t take. but secondly, and most importantly, the reason business will fire rather than pay overtime is because it is inherent in capitalism to find the cheapest labor without concern for where it comes from. In this way, profits are maximized, and the people at the top benefit at the expense of everyone else, nationals and immigrants alike. If border militias truly wanted to turn the situation around, the results could kill two birds with one stone. By requiring that our businesses be held accountable to the people that make them run, not only would job placement favor nationals, but it would do so by requiring that businesses that take and take from our neighbors to the south are equally accountable to them. In that way, maybe the need to run away wouldn’t exist. But no. Border militias choose to put effort and financial backing into something that is clearly racist and yet another ill effect of a patriarchal, religiously zealous country. No one denies that drugs are a serious issue on the border, but there are more people just trying to survive than are trying to bring drugs into the United States. Furthermore, why don’t you militias attack the problem of a market for drugs in this country. As a final comment, I challenge each and every border militia member to become an illegal immigrant for a night, unarmed, and without drugs, and tell me then that these groups do not violate basic human rights with their actions.
Posted by n. on Feb 7, 2003 at 11:40 PM
Bobby, I am not saying your experience is not true. I am questioning that it is the norm. Five to eight million people are not taking away all of the jobs of 280 million people.
You don’t know anything about my life experience, so you shouldn’t presume anything about it. My parents started out poor, worked manual labor jobs, saved as much money as they could, and made sure that I took education and work seriously. I had to work while going to college and have had my share of undesirable low-paying jobs. I don’t think anyone is exempt from going through hard times. I am grateful to God for what I have today and I am still not immune from financial difficulties as the cost of living (especially housing) keeps increasing dramatically. I just don’t think that we should use our difficult experiences to blame illegal immigrants for all our country’s problems, which are actually rooted elsewhere: in the management of our economy by corporate business leaders. I apologize for offending you if you thought that I was making fun of your life experience and difficulties.
Both illegal immigrants and U.S. blue collar workers are victims of corporate restructuring to export high-paying manufacturing jobs abroad to take advantage of Third-World wages and playing off U.S. citizens against illegal aliens to drive wages down for jobs here in the U.S. to increase profitability for owners and shareholders. This is why corporations always lobby and block Congress from criminalizing the penalties for hiring illegal aliens. Corporate leaders get civil fines, but no criminal convictions or imprisonment for hiring illegal aliens. We should focus our energy on the management of our economy and work for real campaign finance reform so that politicians are not captives of corporate lobbies.
Posted by A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law on Feb 8, 2003 at 2:21 AM
Ungrateful mexicans, we sent them our jobs, without the burden of social security taxes, medical insurance or the interference of those damned safety regulators. They get all of those chemicals developed in the U.S. which real Americans aren’t even allowed to have anymore. We sell them subsidized crops so that their farmers can relax and not try to grow crops for profit, and help support their beloved police/army
which protects their present levels of freedom.
These ingrates act as if we keep them as Uncle Sams personal slave population. No wonder the waters of the Rio Grande don’t want to go there anymore.
Proud to be an American.
Posted by Darrell Denisi on Feb 8, 2003 at 2:34 AM
Hey,Bobby from N.C.:
You hit the nail right on the head in your replies to ‘Good Christian” about college education.Did you know that the states of California and Texas now pay a big part of the tuition costs of illegal Hispanics?Good Christian will probably denie this too,but you can check if you don`t believe it.I believe one of the schools in Texas that does this is Texas A&M.By the way.You said you worked in Bristol,Va.I am from Bristol,Tennessee,now living in Marion,N.C.But,check on what I said,just to see if I`m right about tuition.And,it seems that the University of Texas also does this.Must be nice!
Posted by Mike Callahan on Feb 8, 2003 at 4:30 AM
Page 1 of 3 pages 1 2 3 >
SAVE 53% OFFTHE NEWSSTAND PRICE!
Reader Comments
Notice the vast amount of conjecture, speculation and wild accusations in this flimsy excuse for a story. Which human rights advocates have voiced suspicions of murder? Was there an investigation? Was anyone charged? Why bring up wild allegations without substantiating at least the party voicing the suspicion? Is this what passes for journalism these days? You shold be ashamed.
Your story on the “vigilantes” was ridiculous. Since when do Mexicans or anyone have the right to invade this country, bring in drugs, diseases, crime, and other problems, and then expect to be treated as though they were welcome? Illegals cost the American taxpayer billions and billions of dollars in education, medical, and other services. We don’t want you in our country and we have every right to protect our border and to eject you. The only reason there is no war between the US and Mexico over this invasion is because the government in this country is so thoroughly corrupt. But thank goodness there are still citizens who care enough about America to try and defend it from criminals. Don’t make the mistake of confusing Americans with the trash who rule us. They may not give a damn about this country, but there are many Americans who do.
Senior Bush is a one term president and we will make sure the next president kicks all the illegals out of America.
un documented? rubbish!! illegal alien!
look up vigilant,you asswipes
What the heck is an undocumented migrant? That sounds like a contradictation of terms. A migrant has documentation. Are you sure you don’t mean an illegal alien?
Mr.Grijalva has evidently never been to Dade County Florida
Where can i join these groups to stop the cross borders incursions of illegals
These honest citizens have every right to defend themselves against the criminals that threaten and endanger our country and communities. Gang activity has become to increased, and our anti-gun, anti-constitutional laws have served only to disarm those who should be well-armed to defend themselves against the rising tide of crime. These militias represent America and the concerns of “the people” more than any politician ever has.
R.M. Arrieta is not a patriot to our nation. Mr. Simcox is a true American who is interested in protecting our country. Since when do illegal immigrants have rights that trump personal property and civil rights of Americans?
Simcox’s self-styled militia calls themselves exactly that. And they believe in their brand of “vigilante justice,” which is what Simcox himself has called it. And, as far as all this talk of “illegals” being “criminals,” I might point out that every recent analysis of the second amendment—of the Constitution—has demonstrated no right under our laws to form citizens’ militias, especially ones that intend to violently engage unarmed people… citizens or not. And when stalking out humanitarian water stations in one of the most lethal deserts in the country (which is what Simcox himself again says he intends to do), gun-toting yahoos quickly become human rights violators, driving immigrants (legal or not) to certain death.
But given the failure of most of the Nativist responses posted here to command “their” own English language, it might be too much to expect a rudimentary understanding of our country’s legal pillars, let alone a respect for human lives.
Why does this phony little fraud “journalist” fail to mention all the MURDERS RAPES AND ROBBERIES COMMITTED BY ILLEGAL MEXICANS AGAINST AMERICANS WHO LIVE NEAR THE BORDER????
Why doesn’t this “journalist” write an article called “Armed and Dangerous” about the armed mexicans who rape rob and murder white people in the USA? Why does this pig forget to mention those crimes?
NEVER TRUST A FREEMASON, OR A FREEMASON-OWNED NEWSPAPER
See “Series of killings tied to people-smuggling” at
http://www.arizonarepublic.com/special03/articles/0106executions06.html
Armed and Dangerous, Vigilantes terrorize migrants crossing the border.
Are the so called vigilantes really terrorizing ILLEGAL migrants?
How many ILLEGAL migrants are terrorizing us law abiding natural citizens of the United States? I don’t see Mexico fighting to keep their own citizens in Mexico. No, they are happy to put their burden on the United States citizens to feed, cloth, educate, etc… This so called vigilante groups should have started 50 years ago. No doubt we would have less problems right here at home. John De Marco Stanhope, New Jersey
To be honest with you people, I’m more afraid of Americans than I am of Mexican’s or any other nationality on Earth. Take some history lessons, what do you have to be so proud about protecting? It’s basic civility to send an injured person to a hospital. How would you like it if you were injured in Mexico, and they just tossed you in a gutter to die? Would you not want similar courtesies extended to you? God only knows why anyone would want to live in your forsaken country in the first place…
BOO HOO. I am all for language, borders and culture…if the gov’t isn’t going to protect America…I guess Americans will have to.
I am a Christian, and believe that God created man in His image. It doesn’t make any difference what color or nationality they are.
Now that being said… people who sneak across the border are indeed illegal aliens. I don’t care what color they are or what country they are from. There is a proper way to become an American Citizen, and it’s not by sneaking in.
If we are indeed in a “War on Terrorism”, then why the heck are our borders wide open? We are continually given warnings of imminent threats of new terrorist attacks. There have been airplane stubs from many different foreign countries found along our southern border. Anyone from any country that has the means to do so could simply fly into Mexico or Central America and ultimately just walk right across our open border.
While I DON’T agree with undue treatment of ANY criminal, we are allowed to both protect ourselves and our country, and to make citizen arrests. If I woke up in the middle of the night and saw strangers hiding out in my backyard, littering it, and using it for a bathroom (many such incidents have been reported), you can better believe I’d do something to protect my family. We do have the right to keep and bear arms for just such a purpose as this.
This issue has always been one around which I have had trouble wrapping an opinion. I agree with many of the posters who stated their incredulity with the journalist’s facts. The article was essentially an emotional appeal to a readership who probably never had to “sneak” across a border. It reminds the audience of the humanity of the whole situation. Hence, the majority of the posters have to first express their fundamental concern for human rights and then assert their opinion about the “criminals” who cross the border to perform ill deeds. But like the journalist’s words, I find fault with the posters’ comments which cite various crimes of some “illegals.” Like the belief that every plane that lands successfully will never make news, every “illegal” immigrant who comes to pick fruit/vegetables, construct homes/buildings, dig ditches, clean homes, wash dishes, etc. and contribute to the market economy everytime they shop for groceries, pay rent, or buy gas will never make headlines.
Sensational news and yummy soundbites will dominate the front pages of papers and t.v. news and naturally seep into the minds of smart citizens and given some levity to them without thought to the lack of complex evaluation behind such assertions. In the end, I long for a forum of “reader comments” which actually contributes/creates dialogue without the bold print in the papers. Let’s pause, consider, then write/talk/profess. Honestly, I feel no closer to an opinion on the matter based on Arrieta’s article or any of the unconvincing equally emotionally appealed reactions. (Although, I do intend on researching the government officials, the groups mentioned, and any follow-up reports I can read.) Thus, my opinion is facilitated by intelligent interaction with those on both sides of the issue.
I know that within this group of articulate readers, there are at least a few that are equally fed up with a “dog chasing its tail” way of deliberating an issue.
Since when is it a crime to protect your own property?
Since when does our government refuse to protect the property of Americans? Since when does our government give tax credits amounting in the million to PAC’s encouraging foreigners to break our immigration laws? Since when must people protect their own property because our government declines to do so?
What many Americans seem to conveniently forget is that this country is based on immigrants. If it weren’t for the Mexican farm workers, our produce would cost much, much more than what we are paying now. Just what American will work in hot dusty fields picking produce for a few dollars a day—without any added benefits? Who will work in the sweat shops in Los Angeles for minimum wage (and no benefits)? These people are hard workers who have built the economy of this country by taking jobs that nobody else would do.
One can hardly blame Mexicans for wanting to come to America when all they see on television is that the “streets are paved with gold,” and finding out the hard way that the average American is prejudiced, mean, bullying and intolerant of any race that isn’t white.
I would just like to say that “B” does not speak for Canada. I can very honestly say that if I were injured or sick and was illegally entering another country that I would NOT expect them to welcome me with open arms and pay for my treatments. Who would expect that? Wake up B! Even if the people entering are “good people”, they are still criminals by virtue of their choice to immigrant illegally. In my opinion, criminals lose their civil rights to those who obey the law!
if everyone is so concerned by the influx of illegal immigrants, we need to address the issue: not ‘how’ they’re coming in but ‘why’.
no matter how many preventative and punative measure are put into place, that fact remains that america can offer what most other countries can’t to these people. not that the u.s. should solve all the problems of the third world, but the american government should at least desist from exacerbating the poverty and oppression of the third world. nafta and trade agreements need to be tailored to benefit all countries instead of just the rich multinationals. i don’t see a few jobs at slave-wages benefitting the overall economy and infrastructure of mexico.
While I think we can agree that it’s a sad state of affairs when people have to resort to this kind of wild west justice, but they’ve really been left with no choice. The government of the United States and ESPECIALLY the government of Mexico have refused to make genuine efforts to stop these criminals (the people crossing our border in violation of our law), so eventually people start taking matters into their own hands. I live pretty far from the border, but I can certainly tell you that if I saw someone who was obviously a criminal walking along the roadside I’d do the same. If I saw them on my property they’d be dead.
Draft ‘em all and send them to Afganistan to fight, those that survive get to be US citizens.
$ 10,000 dollars for each vigilante death
Now that I’ve had a chance to read through all the comments, I can see that there are a few reasonable people - people who are not blinded by pure “patriotism” (is that what it is?) and can step back and look at the issue - humans killing other humans. Yes, they are “illegal”, as in undocumented, but how can we call people “illegal”? By dehumanizing this group, which is what you are doing, it becomes very easy to be “rah rah” about vigilantism. Good for you. From your computer, you cheer people on for KILLING other people. You must be so proud of yourselves.
I encourage all of you who believe that immigrants cost Americans billions and billions of dollars to check their facts. Medicare and arming ourselves cost us way more. And, I’m sure that given the opportunity to hire cheap labor who won’t “talk back”, many of you wouldn’t turn it down.
We are a country with a rich history in conquest for the sake of “freedom”. We have murdered in the name of liberty, so maybe it’s in some people’s blood to fight for something so imaginary. Yes, I know that I’m jumping on the “ethos” bandwagon, but sometimes it feels like it’s all I have left.
When you don’t learn your history, You are doomed to repeat it. Everything I read in the replies and in the story itself reminds me of the ‘wars’ fought against the native people of this country. These were not wars. The European races were at first welcomed by the eastern tribes. The ancestors of the very people condemning these Mexican people. Was it not those very same ancestors that brought diseases, murder and rape to the Natives of this very land. Now look at the way they try to make themselves sound so self-rightous. The very way there ancestors did not so many years ago. These inhabitants of stolen lands want to protect the very land their ancestors stole in the first place. I am ashamed to admit that these people are even human beings. Yet, it is human nature that drives them to condemn their fellow man. Based on race and differences in color. We all want the same things in this life. To be healthy. To not live in fear. To give our children everything that we never had. The people that enter this country have the dreams that those European people did and they work hard to make their dreams come true. Can you find people to clean your hotels willing to work for the wages these people get? Can you find an American willing to work 2 sometimes 3 jobs to give money to their relatives that need it? Can you find Americans that are willing to put extended family first? Can you find these people? I suppose you can in small groups. Would you be willing to stay in this country if you faced the lifestyle so many Mexicans face in their country. I don’t think so. If the opportunity presented itself to go somewhere and make your life better for yourself and your family. Your damn right you’d go too!
Dear Isabel Garcia,
You are blind to the realities that “coyotes” are vicious criminals clearly capable of executing their excess “baggage”. They have no respect for the law of our country or of Mexico’s. Conversely, citizen patrols are motivated by respect for the law and our society to assist overwhelmed U.S. legal entities against criminal activity conducted by foreign nationals illegaly present in the USA. Your reduction of your fundamental position against civilian interdictions to one based on race merely exposes failure to understand a criminal is a criminal. Your activities and posture on immigration policy issues only make you a provaceteur of further criminal actions: the unfettered growth of illegal immigration. Are you not an accessory to a crime?????
USnative, I totally agree w/you. I’m originally from South America, living in this great country for 12 years, but I still don’t understand these people that claim that nobody has the right to come here. They fear that it may happen to them what they did to the NATIVE AMERICANS, the only people that can claim to be originary from this land. The rest of us, like it or not, are inmigrants to some degree..
This country has a long history of illegal immigration. Just ask the Indians.
I find it hard to be real sympathetic to the ILLEGAL aliens.If our incompetent INS can`t get the job done,protecting our borders,then someone should!They slip into our country,and don`t pay taxes,get free medical attention,get welfare,and pop out babies like breeding cock roaches.The U.S. is like a big ship on the ocean.Sooner or later we will sink from so many illegals slipping into the country.The government caters to them,hoping to win votes.And in the mean time,the rest of us get screwed.American citizens are nothing more than a source of tax money and a vote for our politicians.Both Republicans and Democrats are guilty of catering to illegals.So,I say to the vigilantes,KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!WISH I COULD JOIN YOU!
I thinks it time to do something about all the illegal immigrants in the usa before its to late.The bootom line is they shouldnt be here unless they go throught the proper steps to become us citizens. There taking over the labor force due to the fact there work for fukin pennies on the dollar. We live in america and it really pisses me off when people cant even talk english, if you wanna talk any other language take your sorry asses back to your countries.THIS COUNTRY NEEDS TO TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN FIRST THEN THE SORRY ASS WET BACKS.This shit will get worse before it gets better.All i got to say is there glad i dont live by the border POW POW
I Feel very sorry for the plight of the illegal immigrants, however, I feel more sorrow for the legal Americans whose taxes go to pay for a new generation of illegal immigration. Illegal immigration has systematically “drained” the social services, law enforcement, and public school systems of their funding. The American citizens whose ancestry fought to build America into what it has become today-a leader in innovation and technology, are finding all of their efforts were in vain. For example, the breaking down of the labor unions mainly caused by the influx of new immigrants willing to support this movement. All of this makes one wonder “If I (as an American) were to go to Mexico, would I receive such benefits [i.e., welfare benefits, free education, and a labor pool in need of black market labor], or, would I be persecuted for just being American??????? I strongly believe an unwarranted persecution would take place and no rights would be given to me! Why don’t the new immigrants build up their own countries and stay there like my Ancestors did here?
It might be true that the overwhelming number of illegal aliens come to the US with good intentions such as giving their children a better life, but the problems they create place the US into an even more dismal economic situation. They might purchase goods and services and take jobs that “most people” don’t want, but that is no justification for illegal immigration. There are plenty of first generation “legal” immigrants who can fill those jobs. Education is the key to succeeding in the US. First generation immigrants are often uneducated and will take the menial jobs that are available for low pay. Many of these parents are happy working hard to see their children succeed and take a larger role in the US society. We need to spend the limited budget we have on the people ALLREADY in this country. I personally like having a high standard of living…I am not a bigot. I judge people on their merit…immigrants who use the proper procedures to enter the country I will welcome with open arms. Give these people and their children the chance to get educated and move up the social ladder. My great grandparents immigrated to this country LEGALLY, they worked hard and passed down what they earned to my forebears. I was educated and work hard to enjoy life with my family. Under-education and the resulting over-fertility that Mexican citizens experience is putting a strain on the Mexican economy as it is. We have enough problems to address here in the US. Let them help themselves with education and contraception.
Oh…and to those people who say that this country is a country of immigrants and the northern Europeans immigrants took this land from the native Americans….native Americans immigrated to the US from Asia through the bearing straight…look it up.
The bottom ling is all the mexicans that live here illegally send most of their money back to mexico and therfore make up about 60% of the mexican economy.And if thats not enough to make you angry the legal ones in our country are giving millions to the corrupt politicians so they dont enforce the immigration laws.If things dont change one day youll see mexican infront of A merica
I don’t like criminals, whether illegals or legals, citizens or non-citizens, and whites or non-whites.
But in case of immigration, I don’t against it since America itself is based on immigrants who came from all over the world.
God bless Chris Simcox! Tell him to let me know if I can help in ANY way!
John Cline Jr.
As a US citizen of this country I agree wholeheartedly that the American people have no choice but to be vigilant in protecting our borders. It is the growing numbers of illegal immigrants that this country faces medical expenses, high unemployment rate, higher taxes. The government isn’t doing effective job when it comes to our borders. Just look what happened Sept. 11? Need I say more?
Regarding the Illegal Mexican Imigrants, An illegal Border Crossing is in itself a Crime under the current Laws of Our Land. Therefore a Criminal Act. US Citizens Who Perpetrate Criminal acts are stripped of their Civil Rights, Therefore These People, Noting are not even US Citizens do Not Have ANY RIGHTS under US law ! It’ as simple as That ! If You Don’t Agree with the concept People, Hey, Move To MEXICO !
As for all the Aid given to Mexico a few Years Back, Remember ? Ask the Bankers in The Bahamas Who are Holding it remembering the Mexicans who said “DUMB AMERICANS Gave it to US !
Song from T Rohan:
The cowboys and bikers better take back the west, The Mexicans are breeding like rats in a nest, Thier having their babies, their doing their best, So the bikers and cowboys better take back the west, If you think I’m joking, just go on downtown, stand on the corner, take a good look around, the cities are crumbing ‘cause the labor’s all brown, so the bikers and the cowboys better take back thier town. You crips and you blood’s better stop this brown flood, or soon your fine ‘hoods will be Mexican mud, plant a bomb on the border—make sure it’s not a dud, cuz you Crips and you Bloods gotta fight this brown flood, now I’m not a racist, just an honest young man, I can’t stop ‘em all, but I’ll do what I can—we must work together, we must take a stand, We must fight for our children and protect our land! We reserve our rights as America citezens to protect our country from Enemy’s FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. WE RESERVE OUR RIGHTS TO BEAR ARMS AND ENSURE OUR FREEDOM FOR THE PUSUIT OF LIFE, FREEDOM AND HAPPINESS. NOW GO DO THE RIGHT THING PEOPLE OF AMERICA!READ THE CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS AND ACT ACORDINLY. WHAT WOULD GEORGE WASHINGTON OR THOMAS JEFFERSON DO? IF NOT US? WHO? IF NOT NOW? WHEN?!!!EVIL TRIUMPH’S WHEN GOOD MEN DO NOTHING.
To all of the people boo-hooing about the Indians being the only “Real” Americans, I would like to say, when my ancestors came here from Eastern Europe, Indians rode horses and lived in cloth tents! Go to cherokee, NC today and see how much they have progressed! Not much! Eastern Europeans made this country what it is today! We don’t have 3000 miles of wilderness anymore! We can no longer afford to welcome the world! I say SLAM the doors on our borders before it’s too late! Go to China and India and see the effects of overpopulation! It’s the world’s #1 problem!!
I feel sorry for all those people that call themselves Americans and support these vigilante groups. As many have written, this country was built on immigrants whether legal or illegal coming from all over the world. The reason this country is so great is because of immigrants and their fresh new ideas and ways of thinking. Unfortunately because it also has created racist closed minded people who because of their insecurities blame others for their problems. I hope my government the US government does something about these vigilante groups and prosecutes them to the fullest extent of the law. Proud to be an American with 16 years of military service. Proud son of a Mexican immigrant.
The term ‘migrants’ in itself implies some sort of legitimacy. The illegals who cross the border into US territory are not migrants. They are criminally tresspassing illegal aliens and should be treated as such.
First, let start by saying that no person truly in not a least a little bit racist. Hell, my wife is spanish and black mix. Now with that said, I ask this question “Why should we let more people in this country when we people of all races that are homeless and hungery?” I say take of the peoblems that we already have first, then we will take care of everybody else second. Yes, America was settle by immengts,hell my people are from Scotland, but at that time in history the settlers didn’t have to worry about nuclear wepons or people crashing planes into buildings, or things like that. I truly feel that America should shut her borders competely until we can take care of our own people first. One last thing, to chris in canada, you wouldn’t be so smug if you didn’t have the great country of America protecting your canadian ass, now would u? please feel free to email me your responses. In closing, I feel that we will have another war over issues like these. I say God help childern, for they will be the ones who deal with our actions.
Amazing! Why all the racism and hate? I didn’t realize ya’ll were that insecure. Is it the economy? Whatever it is, if my brothers from Mexico (from whom, ironically enough, you stole the southwest) don’t organize Pancho Villa-style groups to counter the vigilantes, the eternal flames of hell WILL be awaiting you for your crimes against humanity.
This is all about RACE…. WE Whites do not want the non white third world hordes coming into our WHITE country period. The Mexican, Honduran et al are not wanted period. If you are offended to bad. We have enough racial animus with the Black Americans to insert another race into the nation is a quick trip to national suicide. Why dont you La reza people stay in your own countries and make them better more livable places then forcing your way in here against our will. Call me what you like I could not care less what I have stated are my fellow White countrymens feelongs on this matter STAY HOME ! ! !
I wonder what would of happened if all the white suppremacist had their way and only white people (even though there really isn’t a true 100% white person or any other 100% race out there) lived here. Could you imagine all the in-breeding? Boy, that would be a great country!
Hey Victor you third worlders can only resort to name calling and asinine comments because there is no intelligent rebuttal to White nationalism .Hey your people want to jam yourselves into a white nation because of the quiet clean in stable societies we build where ever we go. I repeat STAY HOME!
It’s unfortunate theres so much hatred now in america….
Lets have the illegals armed and teach those sorry excuse people that call themselves americans a dose of there own medicine….KILL ALL VIGILANTIES
I have something to say to Mr. Pablo Garcia.You say that we are racist and insecure because we don`t want ILLEGAL MEXICANS to continue to slip across our border into the U.S.?You are a real moron if you don`t understand that this isn`t the reason.We don`t like ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS from [any] country coming to the U.S. to live off of the rest of us!They don`t pay taxes,while the rest of us get our legal asses taxed off.They get welfare,when they have NEVER worked in the U.S.They get free medical care,when the rest of us can hardly afford to pay our medical costs.They get free child care,when the rest of us can`t afford to pay for child care.They get housing assistance,when we have thousands of homeless U.S. citizens living on the streets.They have almost bankrupted the medical care system in the state of California.If you or any other fucking moron,legal citizen or not,can`t understand all this,then too bad.Take your sorry asses back across the border.
I live in the state of North Carolina.We have 400,000 Mexican immigrants in the state.The vast majority of these people are illegals.I would like to ask any bleeding-heart liberal moron,“Why should we be taxed to death,and pay high-cost medical insurance when these illegals get by free”?They receive welfare benefits for their children.No wonder they multiply like rabbits!If any American citizen can say they approve of all this,then they are one stupid son-of-a-bitch!My wife works at a Hampton Inn in our home town of Marion.She cleans rooms for the guests.Recently,two families of Hispanics who lived together in a house lost their home to a fire.So the state of North Carolina put them all in two different rooms at Hampton Inn.The rooms cost $120.00 each every night.These two families spent two months at the Hampton Inn!Some of the house keepers refused to clean their rooms,because the Mexicans shit in the waste cans,and wiped their asses on the bath towels.Also,one of the Mexican women had just had another baby,and she had been having sex,and putting the used,bloody rubbers under her bed,which had dried and stuck to the carpet.Also,some of the room furniture was broken,and the children were loud and raised hell all the time.When they finally checked out,the state of North Carolina picked up the tab,which was almost $15,000.00.If anyone out there has an idea about an organization we could start to stop all this bull shit,I am all ears.Write me.Maybe we can do some good.All Americans,black and white need to take action before it`s too late.Our politicians sure as hell won`t!
Why in your article did you not mention the huge amounts of trash and human waste these intruders leave behind? Why did you not mention the fact that they cause all kinds of property damage and the enviromental impact of their illegal actions? I think these are good American citizens trying to clean up a mess that our Government has turned a blind eye on for way to long. If they want to come over and work there is a legal way of doing so. Please don’t say oh great another letter from whitey, because my wife is an immigrant who got here LEGALLY!
It sounds like these groups are doing the job our government should be doing.
why are we complaineing when u.s citizens are giveing illegals the jobs we americans need .they wouldnt be here if we americans werent giveing them jobs .look around !
I am an american citizen of various background nationalities. I believe that this is a free country and therefore whomever wants to live, work, play and pay taxes in this country can do so. Legally. There is a legal way of entering this country, but has anyone taken a look at the process? It is time consuming, expensive, and almost borderline ridiculous. The people entering this country legally have to learn more and do know more about American and its history than those of us that were born here and went to school here. Has anyone ever thought that if our government would make the process of becoming a citizen simpler, then we wouldn’t have as many problems with illigal people entering our country. After becoming citizens, they would pay taxes, pay their own medical bills and be punished for their own crimes, just like us. And about the race issue, why is it always about race? What is the matter with someone having a different color skin, or different beliefs than what you have? I have met many, many different people in my life, and never found a general stereotype for any people. In all races, nationalities, and religions, there are good people and there are bad people. Your skin color doesn’t determine who you are. We all make our own decisions based on our experiences. That doesn’t mean every illegal is a bad person who will do bad things. How do you think all that fruit is picked in California, or our farm implements are put together in Texas, or our dishes are washed in New York, or the hotels are kept clean in Florida? There are millions of illegals, or people hoping for US citizenship in this country who are willing to do the jobs that alot of citizens feel are beneath them. The wages are lower that the national minimum wage alot of times and these people don’t complain! They don’t sue if they work overtime, they don’t sue if they aren’t given what they feel they deserve just for being alive! I could go on and on about the stupid things our own citizens do, and it might do our country some good to kick these people out and bring in some decents hard working, responible people to help turn our country around!
How can we fight terrorism and hate if we “Americans” are filled with it ourselves? It’s interesting how people don’t think before they speak, act or write. Let me ask you something, why did the europeans migrate to (or more like INVADE) the americas? Do you think they did it pacifically and asking permission from the natives? Patriotism is great but not to the point of ethnocentrism. Yes America is the strongest and richest and most powerful country in the world. And if you were on the outside looking in, would you not want a piece of the pie? Hell yes you would do anything you could to try to give your family a better life. Say anything you want you but inside you know you damn would. All you hypocrit idiots that are too privaledged to give a shit about anything else in the world. These people are Americans just like each and everyone of you morons. Even more so, because YOUR ancestors were the wetbacks and the migrants and the illegals of the past. Why did they not stay in Europe? Should everyone pack up and just go back where they came from? Who’s left then, the natives, and hell, I just have to cross the border, most of you have to cross the freaking atlantic to get “home”. Instead of focusing time and energy doing unneccesary shit like spewing hate and racism, we should focus on not being blown up by real the terrorists. But it’s just easier to find a scapegoat and let out your frustration on the defenseless and weak, it’s all about the power right? I’m a proud U.S and proud daughter of two mexican immigrants. If a mexican has to cross the border risking death, exploitation and racism from others why would they do it in the first place? Oh yes, it’s just to take the first class jobs that everyone’s applying for. Cleaning toilets, scrubbing dishes, building your houses and picking fruit for $2 an hour for 15 freaking hours aday. Or maybe it’s to hang out at the clubs and tennis courts of America, to think of how lucky they are to be here without their families, without money and being hunted down like criminals. Or maybe we just come here to bug the shit out of you…yeah, that must be it…
P.S. I’m a proud New Yorker and on 9/11 everyone was the same color, the same race. I remember how the dust just covered everyone making them all the same color, no distinctions of any kind. It’s a shame how idiotic we become when the dust settles…
It’s time to treat this invastion by Mexico as a war on American soil. (illegal or legal)
Causes our economy to go sour and causes out breaks of sickness and drugs to increase. It’s time to put our armed forces on the borders and give all Mexicans a time limit to leave America our be treated as war crimnals.
God bless American!!!
To American Girl:
Wake up!!!!! It must not be real hard to enter the U.S.Remember 9/11?And just because it takes a while to become an American citizen,isn`t an excuse to break our laws and enter illegally.The I.N.S. MUST HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU WORKING FOR THEM.THAT`S WHY WE NO LONGER HAVE A WORLD TRADE CENTER LEFT!And there is a good reason why illegal immigrants {do the jobs no one else will do},as you bleeding-heart liberals are so fond of saying.THEY DON`T GET TAXED!! They get every cent they earn!There are a lot of these jobs Americans would do,too if they didn`t get their asses taxed off.
Mr. Callahan,
You seem to have a lot of hate and anger inside of you. You would just love to kick me and all my family out of the U.S wouldn’t you? Maybe you could just pack up and ship out to defend our country or maybe you would rather just sit at your computer and type stupid shit like your doing now…
to american girl maybe if they stay in thier counrty and fix thier problems there and fix thier gov. maybe they could have a better life for them selfs than run from them.if they come by the thousands then you mean to tell me thats not enough poeple to control there own lifes at home how many more excuses are poeple going to make for them .its not that we dont like them but it time we americans take care of our own
Being a non US-Citizen, I’d like to say that I’ m really astonished. or sadly impressed, after reading all these comments from descendants of european citizens, who were purchased by all sort of reasons or just left to America and latter on the US, because they were hungering in the Old european countries. What I should say, is that these Chicanos have been living between these two borders for centuries, whilst you white americans americans arrived on american sole, yesterday, if I could say so. Instead of complaining the whole day, because of the incomptence oy your different federal gouvernments, in what refers to immigration policy, you should understand that the problems you are facing, lack of medical security for all americans, is part of what characterizes the US. Individualism, instead of invading foreign countries, you should invest your money in building a more equalitarian society, but most of all, STOP INVADING the World, because, and don’t die for yours chicanos and blacks first row soldiers, in that case you would be legitimating that the vigilantes would be then defending their borders.
Illegal immigrants are breaking the law and thumbing their noses at the government.
I don’t condone murder but the citizen who held that illegal criminal for the border patrol should be commended, not vilified.
Mexico is a country rich with resources and talented people.
I as a taxpayer should not be forced to pay for it’s corrupt governmental failed policies and mismanagement of those assets.
Our borders are out of control and if it costs more at the supermarket for tomato’s it’s a small price to pay versus the damage to the environment from uncontrolled population growth in this country.
Simcox is our next George Washington. He and his organization need a statue in our nations capital. America doesn’t need people anymore. We especially don’t need anymore third world unskilled, illiterate, primitive, farmhands or janitors in this great nation. If Mexicans can’t run their country, it is not the place of the USA to absorb their people and help their own citizens which they have no way of helping. Remember, who won the Alamo??
This is an informative article on the border problem which concerns many Americans. These groups which have to do what the government doesn’t successfuly get done, can’t be blamed, this is desperation on the part of the vigilante groups. What else can they do? The illegals immigrants don’t take our immigrations laws seriously, they know that once they get across the borders, they are home and American employers are willing to hire them. At least some people who live along the borders are trying to do something to help the Border Patrol control this immense problem of the hordes of illegals which sneak into our borders DAILY.
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE CRIMINALS. THEY ARE VIOLATION FEDERAL LAW. THEY ENTER OUR COUNTRY BY BREAKING THE LAW. They compete with Americans for jobs, tuition, housing, and government assistance. They undermine American workers by working for sub-standard wages. They undermine legal immigrants who pay a high price to enter our country legally. They perpetuate the myth that American workers do not want to work low paying jobs, while replacing those workers at those same jobs. American workers want only a decent wage and benefits, and cannot compete with illegal immigrants who work for less, and ask for nothing else…LETS STOP LYING ABOUT THE PROBLEM, AND FIND A SOLUTION TO STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!
I agree with the people who have pointed out that much of this article basically amounts to supposition and conjecture. I don’t see any useful evidence that these vigilantes have committed specific crimes.
I do also agree with the writer that these groups likely pose a real danger, however. Hate groups are one of the unfortunate realities of life in the USA, and the comments of the people in the article, as well as the replies here, clearly point to violent feelings of bigotry, fear, and in some cases a disturbing dismissal of state, federal, and international law (to say nothing of the standards of religion and common decency).
Illegal crossing of the border is a serious problem, and some illegals do commit acts of violence while in the USA. But the overwhelming majority of violent crime in the United States is committed by Americans, against Americans. Even if all border crossing ended today, it wouldn’t make much of a dent in our crime statistics. Furthermore, the number of non-violent illegals cleaning our houses, picking our crops, serving our food, sweeping our stores, hauling our consumer goods, and constructing our buildings far outnumbers the small percentage who attack people while in the USA. Most Americans want someone else to perform these manual labors for little pay and no benefits (i.e. illgals)—as long as that remains a fundamental reality even an army of hate-crusaders on the border won’t stop the crossings.
If this were really about crime instead of racial hatred, the advocates of vigilantism would be putting their money and political clout toward drug rehabilitation, better public education, universal health care, higher minimum wage, and other programs that attack the root causes of crime and have been proven to work in preventing the creation of criminals. We can play soldier in the desert all we want, rounding up a few half-dead illegals in the dead of night, and it won’t do anything to solve the problem of crime in America (it might, however, get you killed or arrested some day). If someone really cares about crime, they have to stamp out the social situations that create it, rather than trying to bail out the Titantic with a teacup.
I wish I lived close enough to the border to join these so called vigilantes. These pathetic mexicans have invaded Denver and are tearing the public schools, police department, and hospitals apart at the seams. There are incredible social costs that we are paying to bear the burden of these illegals. It’s about time somebody takes our country’s needs into their own hands, because our government is not fighting for it’s citizens rights! Unfortunately, our politically correct society says you are a racist if you are against illegal immigration, when, in reality, we are just telling the truth. Illegal Mexicans are carrying Mexico’s burdens with them across the border and the productive, law-abiding, tax-paying American citizens are bearing the cost.
Being a Father and hardworking Tax payer, it is refreshing to read about groups that are interested in the protection of our borders. I will not endorse villance toward these poor people. Unfortunately, drugs are a big bussiness, and people will die. It’s too bad our own Goverment does such a poor Job on our southern borders.
How many people would admit to committing murder knowing that they would go to jail for 20 years to life or receive the death penalty? Should we expect the white supremacists to step forward and admit to committing murder? Arrieta cites the Mexican witnesses to the murders, but local law enforcement does not seem to want to believem them (perhaps because of their sympathies with the white-supremacist nativism?). He points out that local and federal law enforcement authorities have been reluctant to investigate the murders of the Mexican border crossers. It is a common practice in law enforcement to speculate on motive and intent in trying to solve murder cases. In this case, who would most likely want to kill Mexican border crossers? White supremacists. It is not a stretch for Arrieta to point the finger at the white supremacists.
The Constitution provides the right to bear arms, but not to use the arms to break the law. Even if someone crosses the border illegally, it does not mean that U.S. citizens can therefore take the law into their own hands and murder them (just like you can’t kill someone who killed one of your relatives.). That is vigilantism and makes the executioner a murderer, felon and an illegal criminal. If a U.S. citizen kills someone because of their race or national origin, even if the person is not a U.S. citizen, that is discrimination, which is a violation of the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964. In other words, it is illegal and a crime to kill based on race or national origin. So the white supremacists have now joined the ranks of the illegals, living in this country as criminals.
Regarding the taxation and welfare issue, most studies show that illegal immigrants actually pay more taxes than the value of social services received. They routinely pay sales taxes, property taxes and those with fake social security cards actually pay payroll and social security taxes for benefits that they never receive because they don’t claim them for fear of deportation.
For those of you who are Christians, would Jesus Christ kill someone because he is brown and crossed a border? Did Christ, a Jew, preach hate based on race and national origin? He preached to love your neighor as you love yourself.
Interesting how the white supremacists are illiterate and don’t know English grammar. You would think that it would be patriotic to know the language of your country.
What right do these meztizo INVADERS have to ILLEGALLY enter into MY country that MY White Founding Fathers built with the intention of it being a homeland for WHITE people? Vigilante’s MY ASS! If our corrupt government—correction, the corrupt bought-and-paid-for self-serving scumbags who infest our government—won’t do the job to protect our borders from this invading locust, then DAMN IT TO HELL it’s the right—NO, IT’S THE DUTY—of American citizens to do everything in their power to turn back this abominable swarm.
You, R.M. Arrieta, are nothing more than a politically correct apologist with a poison pen shamelessly making excuses for your law-breaking, wage-lowering latrino brethren, and have the shameless NERVE to vilify and demonize brave, decent, honorable Americans who are doing THE RIGHT THING!
If the situation were reversed for some strange reason, with White Americans crossing the border into your brethren’s dilapidated and wrecked TURD WORLD COUNTRY, you would be singing a song 180 degrees opposite to your present tune. AND YOU KNOW THAT! HYPOCRITE!!!
BiG White
If corporate America didn’t want those people here they wouldn’t be here; that border would be so tight you couldn’t get a mouse through it. But the corporate idea is, if you can’t export the work then import the worker. This has been corporate strategy since the nineteenth century when they recruited our north, south, or eastern European ancestors in the same way: import enough workers in order to have a ready surplus to draw from and keep wages down, pass restrictive labor laws to keep labor unions from forming, and buy the politicians to run the country for you. It’s nothing new; Latinos are just the latest group to be used in this way. Nebraska Beef, a packing plant in Omaha, actively recruits illegals in Mexico; that’s known here. They start them at $8.00 per hour and it takes four years to get to $9.00. This is in a city where packing plants in 1979 were paying $11.50 per hour for the same job. They want undocumented workers; they pay them miserable wages, treat them like the animals they slaughter, and if anyone complains they call INS. And at the same time they protect themselves against union organizing. So it goes.
The Feds will eventually come after these KKK, church-burning, border- vigilante white-supremacist criminals just like they went after and got Timothy McVeigh, the KKK members who burned the black church in Alamba in the 60s, etc. These pathetic, paranoid right-wing vigilante militias are no match for the Federal law enforcement agencies. Do they really think they could take on all Federal law enforcement agencies including the U.S. armed forces (many of whom are African American and Latino)? Those chicken-shit hate-mongering murderers will get their asses kicked so bad, they will run for their red-neck inbred white mamas. They will be killed battling Federal law enforcement agencies or rot in federal prisons after capture. They don’t have a chance to overthrow the democratic U.S government for the people, by the people and of the people—that is, a people of all races and ethnicities including Anglos, African Americans, Latinos, Asian Americans, Native Americans, Arab Americans, etc.
According to the INS, there are 7 million illegal immigrants in the United States. That’s 2.5% of the total U.S. population of 280 million. It is hard to believe that such a small number people are the cause of all the entire country’s problems. Get over the scapegoating and paranoia.
Apologist Robert Simmons from San Rafael, Ca. wrote:
“What many Americans seem to conveniently forget is that this country is based on immigrants.”
What type of immigrants, Einstein? Were they illiterate, low-IQ blacks from the dark continent? No. Were they orientals from the far east? No. Were they the current hoard from south of the border? No. They were WHITE EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS.
“If it weren’t for the Mexican farm workers, our produce would cost much, much more than what we are paying now.”
Get a load of this self-centered dork. Just because he wants cheap produce to stuff his face with, he justifies this illegal invasion which will only cause ethnic turmoil, ultimately resulting in a balkanized America in the not too distant future. It’s the same greedy short term thinking that imported the negro slaves from Africa to our shores. Just look at what a great burden this has been for America! FYI, I and other Americans would gladly pay double for our produce if these illegal aliens were kept out!
“Just what American will work in hot dusty fields picking produce for a few dollars a day—without any added benefits? Who will work in the sweat shops in Los Angeles for minimum wage (and no benefits)? These people are hard workers who have built the economy of this country by taking jobs that nobody else would do.”
(BIG yawn…) The same lame, overused argument used to justify this illegal and dangerous (for this country’s future) invasion. Let me tell you something pal, as a blue collar worker myself, I can assure you, if you pay Americans a liveable wage—not minimum wage—with benefits, we’ll gladly do any job that needs to be done. Period. These greedy bastards that employ illegal aliens don’t want to. All they care about is themselves and their wallet. They’d rather exploit illegal aliens than pay an American citizen a liveable wage. They don’t give one damn about the upheavel this will bring down the road, and in more than a few locations, already is bringing as can be seen by the increased crime, violence, drug trafficking and gang activity wherever there’s a large concentration of these wage-depressing latrinos. But that’s OK. Just as long as Robert Simmons can buy cheap produce to stuff his face with, that’s all that matters.
Bob Grant
John wrote:
“This has been corporate strategy since the nineteenth century when they recruited our north, south, or eastern European ancestors in the same way: import enough workers in order to have a ready surplus to draw from and keep wages down, pass restrictive labor laws to keep labor unions from forming, and buy the politicians to run the country for you.”
All true, but you overlook one very important fact. These Europeans imported to do work were Caucasians just like the founding race. They eventually assimilated into one American culture, unlike the current non-white invasion, which is readily seen wherever these people have amassed. Discounting the rare exceptions, they’re not here to be Americans. Don’t kid yourself. If you don’t believe me, ask anyone who lives in an area infested with Mexicans. It’s like you’re in a foreign country. Except it’s your country being transformed into a foreign land.
A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law You really are a dumb ass, aren?t you?
While I have no doubt, you?re a good CHRISTINA, judging by your semi-illiterate diatribe you are too stupid to research your own questions, so here I?ll help:
1) ?He points out that local and federal law enforcement authorities have been reluctant to investigate the murders of the Mexican border crossers?. White supremacists? Here you ignorant wretch is what a REAL news source say: ?Since March, smugglers of illegal immigrants, known as “coyotes,” have left behind eight bodies, each killing as brutal as the one before, investigators say.? http://www.arizonarepublic.com/special03/ articles/0106executions06.html
2) ?The Constitution provides the right to bear arms, but not to use the arms to break the law.? Even if someone crosses the border illegally, it does not mean that U.S. citizens can therefore take the law into their own hands and murder them? Again, Dumb Ass, There hasn?t been a SINGLE murder, that the vigilantes were even reasonably suspected (except by anti-American bigots) of committing! Each one, has been by MEXICANS murdering the illegals and competing coyotes! Again, Dumb Ass, there?s not a single incident reported of white supremacist involvement, other than by anti-American bigots and those who breed votes. So your stupid diatribe about ?Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964” is irrelevant AND stupid!
3) ?Regarding the taxation and welfare issue, most studies show that illegal immigrants actually pay more taxes than the value of social services received.? this is nothing more than a lie, to fool the stupid.
4) ?For those of you who are Christians, would Jesus Christ kill someone because he is brown and crossed a border?? He would, if He was a Mexican Coyote! This is simply a case, of ?criminals killing criminals.?
Here’s something to think about. With the very likely upcoming war against Iraq, most of our EUROPEAN, AUSTRALIAN, CANADIAN (all WHITE, mind you), allies will be supporting or fighting alongside our troops, sacrificing their lifes to free the World from a tyrant.
Will our neighbors south of the border commit troops to aid our cause? Of course NOT. Those PIGS will be waiting and watching for any sign of weakness in our Border Patrol to send wave after wave of pigs that will put even more burden on our already strained economy.
So, I applaud the patriotic duty that the vigilante groups have bestowed on themselves to defend our borders and country. In the weeks to come, they’ll need all of our support and encouragement to redouble their efforts to keep our country being invaded by those pests!!!
Andres,
You make a mistake by stating all of the countries you mentioned are white countries. You need to look at our military and theirs to see that it is very diverse with people of many races willing to put their lives in danger to protect people like you decent or not. I myself am not white(mexican decent) but have served 16 years in the US Army to defend my country(United States of America). Whether you like or not people of other races other than white are here to stay. Hopefully one day racism will cease to exist.
Coyotes have been in the business of smuggling Mexicans into the U.S. for several decades since the border began to be patrolled. Why all of a sudden would coyotes start killing their clients? The competing coyotes argument makes no sense because that would just make potential clients take the risk of crossing the border on their own without the help of coyotes given the fear of getting killed by “rival” coyotes. Clients who don’t pay coyotes historically have been held captives here in the U.S. until the illegal immigrants pay off their debts by working or from loans from family members.
It is doubtfull that drug traffickers would use people walking on foot to smuggle large amounts of drugs. It is not efficient nor cost effective given that they can’t carry much drugs on foot and there is a high risk that people will die in the desert. Drug smuggling mostly happens by motor vehicle, airplane and boat because because large amounts of drugs can be transported by those means. Transporting by motor vehicle with a large group of people would attract more attention by border patrol agents so that doesn’t make sense either.
The timing of the killings seem to coincide with the emergence of the KKK vigilante militias patrolling the border. The white-supremacist vigilantes are just using the coyotes as scapegoats for their cowardly murders for fear of going to prison or confronting armed U.S. law enforcement officers. These vigilantes only kill the unarmed and are too big of cowards to confront the U.S. government’s law enforcement agencies if they truly believe that the government is corrupt and should be overthrown.
The white supremacists aren’t even smart enough to put forward a logical and convincing excuse. The Federal law enforcement agencies will eventually capture or kill these murderers. Our multiracial democracy is here to stay and there is nothing that the white supremacists can do about it. As history has shown since the civil-rights movement in the 1960s, the Federal Government always puts these white supremacists in their place: in prison or kills them in battle while they are trying to commit their murderous acts.
Iv`e got a question for{ Good Christina}.Just HOW the hell can an illegal alien pay property taxes?They don`t have property to pay taxes on!And as far as paying payroll and social security taxes,this is a bull shit lie invented by bleeding-heart liberals like yourself to try to justify breaking our lax immigration laws! If anyone believes this bullshit,I have a bridge I`d like to sell you.
In the past decade 33-52 million illegals and legals arrrived on our shores. 1 in 5 get government cash assistance, 1 in 6 American schoolkids are either from a foreign land or have parents from another country. Throughout this great nations taxpayers are spending hundreds of billions to expand schools, hire new teachers and support this new population through
state and federal initiatives, emergency healthcare and social entitlements. In the meantime AMERICAN needy ( of all races) elderley and veterams see their programs CUT as money is diverted to pay for the new programs for new folks. Then we have the issue of SOME of these olks being hardened criminals emigrating here to conduct business and terrorize AMERICAN families because of our governments refusal to control our borders. The bottom line is folks like Simcox should be applauded not demonized and more AMERICANS need to get involved to stop this massive flow of illeglas through constant pestering of our politicians. To do otherwise is simply un AMERICAN.
—
To the People of Texas and All Americans in the World—
Fellow Citizens and Compatriots
I am besieged with a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna. I have sustained a continual Bombardment and cannonade for 24 hours and have not lost a man. The enemy has demanded surrender at discretion, otherwise, the garrison is to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken. I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, and our flag still waves proudly over the wall. I shall never surrender or retreat. Then, I call on you in the name of Liberty, of patriotism, of everything dear to the American character, to come to our aid with all dispatch. The enemy is receiving reinforcements daily and will no doubt increase to three or four thousand in four or five days. If this call is neglected I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible and die like a solder who never forgets what is due his honor and that of his country.
VICTORY OR DEATH
William Barret Travis
Lt. Col. Comd’t
For those of you who cry intolerance on behalf of Chris Simcox and those of us who support him. I remind you that the Hispanic population of the United States exceeded 37 million this year, replacing blacks as the largest minority group. More than half of that 37 million are illegal aliens or spawn of illegal aliens. I tell you now that the American people HAVE been exceedingly tolerant of illegal immigration and HAVE respected human rights. For more than 40 years the American people have been tolerant, to the extent that our American population is being displaced and replaced - by illegal aliens and their spawn. For 40 years the American people have beseeched the Federal Government to take a hand in controling abuses of illegal aliens, and those pleas have fallen on deaf ears. For 40 years the American people have pled with illegal aliens to halt their abuse of our sovereign nation and to abide by our laws, even altering our laws with such things as amnesty for illegal aliens. Those pleas have again fallen on deaf ears. Patience has worn thin. Tolerance is at an end. May your pleas to the Federal Government receive as much attention as did the pleas of the American people for the past 40 years. May your bleats for human rights receive the same response received by Americans from those who abuse our laws.
Take no prisoners.
White supremacists like to make up statistics that don’t even make sense. If 33-52 millions immigrants came every year, the United States would be doubling its population every 6-7 years. Yet from 1990 to 2000, the population increased by 30 million and by 60 million from 1980 to 2000 according to the U.S. Census Bureau. One million legal immigrants come here every year and there are a total of 7 million illegal immigrants (40% of illegal immigrants are in California) according to the INS.
The Personal Responsibility and Work Reconciliation Act of 1996 (i.e., the welfare reform law) made immigrants ineligible for welfare and social security disability insurance. Illegal immigrants with fake social security cards can get jobs, pay taxes and buy a home. Is that so hard to understand?
The growth of the Latino population is inevitable and there is nothing that white supremacists can do about it. The Federal Government will not start a holocaust campaign against Latinos or other people of color. The U.S. government is a multiracial democracy on the side of civil rights, human rights and the rule of law. Why don’t you white supremacist cowards fight the Federal Government instead of murdering unarmed poor Mexicans? Because you will roll right into your graves or into Federal prisons.
White supremacists need to actually start reading studies on the impact of immigration on this country instead making up exaggerated silly claims. According to the Century Foundation’s 2000 Immigration Reform report (http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Basics/Immigration/Impact.html):
* Immigration does not have a substantial impact given the size and dynamics of the U.S. economy. The economic impact of immigration is yields gains of $1 billion to $10 billion a year.
* “Immigrants contribute to public coffers directly by paying the usual array of federal, state, and local taxes that citizens pay.”
* “On balance… the aggregate long-term fiscal impact of immigration is likely to be positive, particularly at the federal level. Those states with high immigration levels are likely to see negative long-term fiscal impacts.”
* There are an estimated 5 million illegal aliens in this country increasing by 275,000 annually. “There is not a great deal of evidence that the level of illegal immigration materially harms the United States… [T]hey tend to take jobs that U.S. workers will not do.”
To {A good Christian in the U.S.A.}.How can an illegal alien pay taxes?THEY DON`T! And as far as illegal aliens doing jobs that Americans won`t do,there is a reason for it.THEY DO NOT PAY TAX!!!!Every penny they earn,they get! Call me a white supremacist,racist,or whatever the usual liberal name tag is for anyone stating the facts.I don`t care.I`m none of these.I just tell it like it is.I have nothing against the Mexican people.My gripe is with the government for refusing to stop illegals from coming into the country in the first place.Also,{Good Christians} are supposed to respect the rule of law.We have laws against illegal immigration.And,by the way whatever happened to the billions of dollars of tax payer money we sent to Mexico to help their economy?
Illegal immigrants who use fake social security cards pay payroll and social security taxes deducted directly from their pay checks; if they bought homes, then they also pay property taxes. Illegal immigrants who are paid in cash (“off the books”) do not pay taxes. Would you take an off-the-books job at $3-5 dollars per hour without being taxed and with no medical insurance or retirement benefits? All immigrants legal and illegal pay sales taxes.
The border with Mexico is about 1,500 miles long. It is impossible for the Federal Government to stop all illegal immigrants from crossing the border. I am not against the Federal Government from deporting people caught crossing the border illegally. I am against vigilantes murdering people for crossing the border.
In any event, the more resources the Federal Government invests to stop 275,000 illegal immigrants per year from coming into the country, the more of a fiscal impact illegal immigration will have on the Federal budget. Right now immigrants don’t have a substantial economic or fiscal impact on the country as the Century Foundation’s study shows. Do you really think that 7 million (2.5% of the US population) people are bankrupting an economy of 280 million people and $10 trillion dollars?
Christ criticized the Jewish religious leadership of his day because they turned Moses’ ten commandments into hundreds of laws in which they were the sole judges meting out punishment. He said that only God can be the judge of people’s sins and he simplified all the arbitrary religious laws into one: the commandment to love. Love your neighbor as you love yourself. Remember his message that he who has no sin cast the first stone? Christ was saying that God’s will is higher and more important than man’s laws.
Mexico repaid the $40 billion dollar loan made in 1994 to bail out their economy and prevent Mexico from totally defaulting on its debt.
To {A good Christian}
Jesus also said “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar`s,and unto God the things that are God`s”.And,how do you or any one else possibly know that these illegal Mexicans were killed by so-called ‘vigilantes’?I would protect my property,too.And as far as illegals not having an impact on the economy,tell that to the people in California,who are seeing the medical care system going under because of so many illegal Mexicans using it,at no cost!Mexican women come across the border in California to have their children in American hospitals.They can`t be deported,because their child is then a natural-born citizen.We pick up the tab.I believe in helping people,but they are taking advantage of our system.And we`re the one`s who pay
There has been some mention of intelligence - people calling others “dumb ass”, others worried about others’ iq’s. As a high school English teacher, I see this same phenomena in my classes. Silly boys and girls will point out others’ weaknesses so people don’t have time to notice their own faults. “Hello, pot? This is the kettle. You’re black.”
Educate yourselves - not on tv but on reality. Read something other than the newspaper written at an 8th grade level. Question what’s happening to us as a nation. Maybe when you’ve done all that, you won’t have to stoop to name calling. There won’t be any need for it.
Mike Callahan, see my message posted on 2/2/03 at 2:51AM regarding why the argument that coyotes did it doesn’t make sense. White supremacists are using coyotes as scapegoats for their murders. Do you think that it is acceptable to kill people crossing desert land that isn’t privately owned?
The Century Foundation study showed that overall, at the Federal level, immigration has no significant impact economically or fiscally (net gain in taxes in the $1-10 billion range; the Federal budget is $2 trillion), but that states with higher levels of illegal immigration like California bear a fiscal burden due to emergency medical costs and public school education. The Federal Government should either devote more border-patrol resources to California or increase its health and education subsidies to California given that its failure to patrol the borders more effectively lead to California’s problems in the first place. California’s real problem is that Enron and other wholesale energy-trading companies were colluding in price-fixing and overcharing California consumers over $8 billion dollars two years ago when utilities were deregulated. Governor Gray Davis signed 30-year contracts with the same price-gouging energy wholesalers at hugely inflated prices to try to stabilize energy prices before the price gouging was uncovered. Now the state can’t balance its budget. California is suing to have the energy wholesalers pay them back.
Actually, illegal immigrants who bear children here in the U.S. can be and are deported by the INS despite the fact that their children are U.S. citizens. The children who are U.S. citizens have the right to return to the United States when they turn 18 years old.
......Its the worst kind of racism: that one group of individuals recieve a better spin on their plight than others from the media. Take note: there are millions of disadvantaged people on this planet that would love to come here, but because of geological distance, political affiliation, money, race, or religion, they may never get the chance. We have opened a floodgate from Mexico, writing a blank check to fix that country’s economic mismanagement and failure, at the American taxpayers’ expense; these people deserve help from their country, not ours. The American people deserve our country’s help, much more than a tax refund. Our government, regardless of political alignment, has betrayed the American people with this flood of illegal immigrants, letting the wealthy profit from the influx of cheap labor, while eroding our quality of life. All illegal immigrants, regardless of country of origin, are technically criminals; if Mexico was an Islamic country, all of these people would have been detained and deported already, without as many media tears, and little public outcry….......for God’s Sake, please, NO MORE LIES….....!
Didn’t our government say (and it’s even on the Statue of Liberty): give me your poor, hungry, and tired masses yearning to breathe free? As they say, be careful what you ask for because you might just get it. This is what happens when we promote ourselves as the world’s champion of freedom and democracy.
We have promoted immigration to this country because Corporate America, who really controls the Federal Government with their campaign contributions to politicians of both parties, has always wanted a resupply of cheap sources of labor regardless of race, color, creed or national origin.
Hey,Good Christian in the U.S.A.:
You call yourself “A believer in the rule of law”?You can`t be.You don`t believe in the rule of law when it comes to our immigration laws! Let`s just do away with borders,laws,and immigration policies,and let all people come into America!Let`s give all illegal Mexicans a good job,welfare,food stamps,a house,a car to drive,free medical care,don`t tax them,and send their kids to college!Hell yeah!If your an American citizen you have all this.You have it made.Right?So let`s just open our borders and be one big happy family! Hell yeah! You seem to be the big liberal expert on immigration.What would you think of this idea?
It’s so sad that instead of dealing with the millions of American citizens who’ve lost their jobs to globalization policies and can’t work jobs because, $3.00, won’t feed any American let alone one with a family. Where are the articles about America’s inner globalization? About all the poor americans unable to find jobs because businesses keep employing the people who cross the borders illegally.
A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law, A Good Christina, where does the information, that you base your opinion on, originate?
The Mexican government, actually REFUSED for YEARS, to tell it
Every
Good Christian,
Thus far the courts have disagreed with you regarding the $8 billion over-charge for energy to CA. The tentative amount has been determined to be much less. Factoring in the amounts that CA still owes, the net is such that CA owes money to the energy providers. Regarding the long term contracts, the free market rewards the intelligent and punishes the not so intelligent. As it should. CA re-elected Davis. They deserve what they get.
You are correct in saying that people can be deported even if they have children who are US citizens. But I do not remember any clause in the Immigration and Naturalization Act that states that the US-citizen child must also leave the US upon deportation of the parent, and that the child must wait until the age of 18 to return. I think the child can come and go as any other US citizen. By being born on US soil, the child is a US citizen. With few exceptions (and some say no exceptions), this citizenship cannot be revoked.
The investigative “evidence” against coyotes assumes that local law enforcement in the Arizona border are is credible. Big “liberal” cities like New York and Los Angeles have problems with racism and corruption in their police departments; this is evident in the Abner Louima case in New York in the mid 1990s in which police officers shoved a plunger up a black Haitian immigrant’s anus and in Los Angeles only three years ago there was the Rampart division scandal in which police officers were drug trafficking, murdering and framing immigrants and people of color calling them “gang members” and drug dealers. The U.S. Justice Department had to take jurisdiction over the Los Angeles Police Department because of the civil and human rights violations. Police brutality by local law enforcement against people of color and immigrants is widespread throughout this country. In the 1960s, the Federal Government had to intervene in the South to end the Jim Crow system of apartheid because local law enforcement had ties to and/or sympathy for white supremacists. It is typical for corrupt local law enforcement officials to attack the character of the victims during cover ups.
I will believe that coyotes did it and that the white supremacists were not involved after investigations by the State of Arizona and Federal Government law enforcement officials. This may be happening soon as Governor Janet Napolitano and Attorney General Terry Goddard seem to be interested in looking into the border murders issue and in heading off any escalation of violence according to the Arizona Republic (http://www.arizonarepublic.com/special03/articles/1219vigilantefolo.html).
Regarding the California energy crisis, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) found preliminary evidence of price fixing by Enron and its affiliates (see http://www.ferc.gov/Electric/ bulkpower/PA02-2/Initial-Report-PA02-2-000.pdf) The case is still not resolved with the FERC, which will start investigating company by company. A FERC judge did say that California cannot demand that the long-term contracts be renegotiated with the twelve energy suppliers because the market-price fixing is still an ongoing investigation (http://www.energyusernews.com/CDA/Article Information/news/news_item/0,2588,89812,00.html). California settled with Williams Companies in which it agreed to reduce its long-term contract with the state by $3 billion. Sempra settled with California agreeing to pay back utility consumers $199 million. Reliant Energy settled with California agreeing to pay back $13.8 million for withholding energy supply for two days in June 2000. El Paso Electric Company settled for $14 million and gave up its power trading privileges for two years. Avista Corporation is also in the process of settling with California. The writing seems to be on the wall and that’s why these companies seem to be settling with California. If the FERC’s company-by-company investigations conclude that energy market prices were manipulated, the long-term contracts with California will be voided on the basis of fraud.
I loved this article….Oh how slanted thou art. Twisting and spinning the truth…calling illegal aliens victims and the US citizens trying to protect their property criminals…
Arrieta and you other mislead posters need to live just one day down in these areas, or any area were illegals are a major problem.
In Colorado we have a proud hispanic population that have been here long before the white man showed up. The difference is they are Americans. Most I know believe that the unfettered onslaught of illegals is destroying our communities and most support stopping it in any way.
Crime in our state has trippled in farming areas due to your so called migrante worker. School and medical costs have sky rocketed and I personally have had property and my vehicles damaged by these so called victims. Give us a break.
We do not want them here, and we do not need them. They are taking away good jobs in construction, and a lot of higher paying service jobs and most do not spend any money they get in this country, but by god they will take the free handouts the bullsh*t laws says they are entitled too. Services that my own family can not receive even though I paid for it in my taxes.
Im a native of this country. My dad and his dad is a native of this country, and my wifes family goes back to the first natives and spanish priests who came to Colorado and New Mexico.
How far back do you want us to go to claim we have a right to be here?
Come on down and spend a week in the communities trying to fight for their safety and property and come see how our government is not serious about protecting its citizens.
This is in reply to wildfire:
Hundreds of illegals every day bring in thousands of pounds of hemp as they walk over the borders. Most do it for all the same reasons any dealer does it. Money!
If they think they are going to be caught they just dump the load and if not caught do it again and again.
The border patrol has lots of film to prove this every night.
We are in a war all right, with Mexico and its criminals. Our government does not care since they want the minority vote on both parties. Our prez is a lying to all of us citizens in that he cares about our security as a nation when our borders are being overrun and our laws spit on by these losers from Mexico and other nations. Hell, we have holes so big any terrorists could drive a semi with a dirty bomb into the country without any problems.
I am all for giving every US citizen a right to shot and kill these invaders at any cost, but it will take an H-bomb or other 9/11 event to finally force our federal government to do anything…how many lives with be lost due to this stupid policy?
Referring to the CA energy problem, it is your claim for $8 billion that I, and FERC, are disputing. Settlements by some of the energy providers were business decisions, and apparently good ones based on wall street’s reaction, not necessarily admissions of guilt. Though I agree with you that market manipulation very well could have taken place. You argue well, but you are being terribly one-sided on this particular issue. Even non-political sources report that CA’s de-regulation legislation was awful. In Davis’ defense, I believe the legislation was crafted before he took office. Davis’ sin, in my estimation, was his lack of leadership during the crisis, running around the country in the midst of the problem telling everyone it was not his fault, instead of first dealing with the problem.
As much as I am against terrorizing others, the fact remains that these groups would not be doing what they do if the government did their job. Illegal immigration waters down the system in that if you aren’t legal and can’t fill out a census, you will never officially exist and aid from the government will never come to your community, and your required taxes will never go to the proper place (GW’s pockets). Despite my beliefs that all immigrants deserve a place in this country, as we are all immigrants (BTW, our white ancestors were pretty low-IQ by today’s standards, and many still are), I cannot support illegal immigration of any kind, as it takes money away that will never be accounted for, as the earners of these monies are undocumented. My stance: do yourself a favor and gain access to this country legally, so you can be accepted(maybe), have your money and vote count (even though they don’t), and you won’t have to deal with psychotic vigilantes patroling the border.
To: A Believer of Democracy and the Rule of Law A Good Christiana, your latest post says it all: You
He who has no argument and poor debating skills resorts to name calling and attacking the character of his opponent. He who cannot research and document the sources for his statistics makes them up and believes his own fiction. Ignorance is not bliss, but rather the hate of white supremacists. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. As George Clinton said, “Free Your Mind and Your Ass Will Follow.”
Wandering Spirit, the judge pegged the price-gouging at $1.8 billion. Today, a second Enron official pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit fraud in connection with the California electricity price fixing (of course, to save his own butt and testify against the big shots at Enron). See http://story.news.yahoo.com/news? tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030205/ap_on_bi_ge/enron_trader_6The FERC. The FERC has found new evidence that the California gas market is still being manipulated because of weak market liquidity. See January 30, 2003 LA Times article: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ferc30jan30,0,5184092. story?coll=la-headlines-business It was former Republican Governor Pete Wilson’s brilliant idea to deregulate a monopolistic industry (the role of good ole campaign contributions and special interests at work). I agree with you that Gray Davis was pathetic in the beginning of the crisis whining that it wasn’t his fault. However, he really dropped the ball by signing those long-term contracts instead of having the state utility regulators investigate the causes of the dramatic increases in wholesale prices. For consumers, gas and electric bills went up from about $25 per month to $75-100. The Bush Administration and FERC refused to get involved initially. I think Bush wanted Gray Davis to crash and burn on the energy crisis because he saw him as a potential challenger in the 2004 Presidential election. Bush and the FERC caved in and starting investigating because of the fear that that California economy tanking would cause a prolonged recession nationally.
For those of you who want to understand the real causes of the declining middle class and growing income inequality in the U.S. economy, see Princeton University economist Paul Krugman’s (Ph.D. in economics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology) article originally published in the New York Times Magazine with data sources included:
http://www.pkarchive.org/economy/ForRicher.html
He who has no argument and poor debating skills resorts to name calling and attacking the character of his opponent. He who cannot research and document the sources for his statistics makes them up and believes his own fiction. Ignorance is not bliss, but rather the hate of white supremacists. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. As George Clinton said, “Free Your Mind and Your Ass Will Follow.”
You still haven’t given your source for you “white supremacists” nonsense. Interesting comment from one such as yourself.
You give no reference source for your constant anti-white comments, your constant accusation of
Good Christian, the $1.8 billion figure is the one I am familiar with. De-regulation in the electric utility industry had been a national idea before Wilson was in office. The concept was not his, but the specific CA legislation came about under him. So in this case I would not say that Wilson was a puppet to special interest groups. De-regulation is going on throughout the country, albiet much slower because of the CA crisis. So far it has met with some success in PA.
It would have been uncharacteristic for a Republican president to get involved with a state problem, but there may have been some political reasons for his inaction like you mentioned. I believe there probably were similar political reasons for Clinton to attack, by action and inaction, the Tobacco companies - strong in states that did not support him.
I objected to your original post about the CA energy crisis because I think the roots of the problem were/are CA’s radical stances on the environment that makes the state vulnerable to the problems, and the pitiful de-regulation legislation and policies. Of course this does not excuse market manipulation, which is a federal crime. But I can see you have your hands full with the real topic of this forum, and I am forcing you to fight a second front (not a good strategy). So I will bow out and give you the last word if you choose. It was a pleasure conversing with you. Do you know of a forum inwhich immigration issues are discussed? I would like to read opinions on the Kim v. Denmore (sp?) case before the Supreme Court regarding mandatory detention. I do not know of any forums that might discuss this issue and other immigration topics. Thank you.
Good Christian, the $1.8 billion figure is the one I am familiar with. De-regulation in the electric utility industry had been a national idea before Wilson was in office. The concept was not his, but the specific CA legislation came about under him. So in this case I would not say that Wilson was a puppet to special interest groups. De-regulation is going on throughout the country, albiet much slower because of the CA crisis. So far it has met with some success in PA.
It would have been uncharacteristic for a Republican president to get involved with a state problem, but there may have been some political reasons for his inaction like you mentioned. I believe there probably were similar political reasons for Clinton to attack, by action and inaction, the Tobacco companies - strong in states that did not support him.
I objected to your original post about the CA energy crisis because I think the roots of the problem were/are CA’s radical stances on the environment that makes the state vulnerable to the problems, and the pitiful de-regulation legislation and policies. Of course this does not excuse market manipulation, which is a federal crime. But I can see you have your hands full with the real topic of this forum, and I am forcing you to fight a second front (not a good strategy). So I will bow out and give you the last word if you choose. It was a pleasure conversing with you. Do you know of a forum inwhich immigration issues are discussed? I would like to read opinions on the Kim v. Denmore (sp?) case before the Supreme Court regarding mandatory detention. I do not know of any forums that might discuss this issue and other immigration topics. Thank you.
Not that long ago all of California, Texas, New MEXICO, Arizona and almost one third of what is now the U.S. was part of Mexico. If my grandparents were born in one of these states and I was born here and my kids are born here, who the f**k gives you the right to kick me and my people out and call us “illegals”. In my ancestors pount of view, all of you racist “scholars are the illegals”.
Not that long ago all of California, Texas, New MEXICO, Arizona and almost one third of what is now the U.S. was part of Mexico. If my grandparents were born in one of these states and I was born here and my kids are born here, who the f**k gives you the right to kick me and my people out and call us “illegals”. In my ancestors pount of view, all of you racist “scholars are the illegals”.
The author seems to be endorsing an illegal act. I always understood it to be the right and responsiblity of a US citizen to stop illegal acts and apprehend the criminals.
Wandering Spirit, good talking to you too. I am bowing out myself because name calling and “debating” based on emotion is not very productive. White supremacists hate people of color, can’t accept that the United States is a multiracial democracy (don’t we elect our political leaders?), over exaggerate the impact of illegal immigration on this country, and advocate violence and ethnic cleansing as many of the posts on this web site clearly demonstrate. As I said before, I have no problem with our government enforcing its immigration laws, but I am against private citizens taking the law into their own hands by using threats, intimidation and violence to enforce immigration laws. I am for peaceful and respectful relations between people of all races including whites. Hate poisons the soul. As Christ said, love your neighbor as you love yourself; obey the commandment of love. I’ve said all I have to say.
I couldn’t find the mandatory detention case you inquired about, but below are some web sites that might be useful.
Jurist Immigration law:
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/sg_immig.htm
Immigration links:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=US&cat=Immigration
Findlaw’s U.S. Supreme Court case database:
http://www.findlaw.com/casecode/supreme.html
Cornell University’s U.S. Supreme Court collection:
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/index.php
U.S. Supreme Court:
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/
Peace to you Wandering Spirit!
Not that long ago all of California, Texas, New MEXICO, Arizona and almost one third of what is now the U.S. was part of Mexico. If my grandparents were born in one of these states and I was born here and my kids are born here, who the f**k gives you the right to kick me and my people out and call us “illegals”. In my ancestors pount of view, all of you racist “scholars are the illegals”.................................THE IDEA OF HISTORICAL OWNERSHIP IS HIGHLY FLAWED; THE LANDS YOU CITE ARE NOW STATES OF THE UNITED STATES, AND AS SUCH, ARE BOUND BY THE LAWS OF OUR COUNTRY. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE BREAKING THE LAW, AND ARE THEREFORE, CRIMINALS…........IT REALLY SUCKS WHEN THE ONLY YOU CAN MAKE ARGUEMENT FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS ‘WE USED TO OWN IT, SO YOU OWE US’. WE HAVE PLENTY OF REAL INDIANS HERE WITH GREATER CLAIMS TO LAND THAN ANY MEXICAN DOES(MEXICANS ARE DECENDED FROM INDIANS AND THE SPANISH, OLD WORLD INVADERS)! AFTER ALL, LOOK AT HOW WELL MEXICANS HAVE MANAGED MEXICO! ITS STILL A THIRD WORLD TOILET, WITH A CORRUPT, SELF SERVING GOVERNMENT, AND A POPULATION THAT DESPERATELY NEEDS A LOT OF BIRTH CONTROL! MEXICO IS A PORTRAIT OF POVERTY WE DON’T WANT HERE IN AMERICA! WANT TO LIVE HERE? TRY LEGAL IMMIGRATION, TRY LEARNING AND SPEAKING ENGLISH, TRY TO BE AN AMERICAN, NOT AN ALIEN, AND EVERYONE WILL RESPECT YOU. TRY A CHANGE OF ATTITUDE, WHILE YOU’RE AT IT! IF I EVER MIGRATE TO CHINA, I PROMISE I WON’T ASK THE CHINESE TO LEARN ENGLISH TO MAKE ME MORE COMFORTABLE! DEPORT ALL ILLEGAL RESIDENTS!
Below are the INS and Census Bureau estimates on the size of the illegal immigrant population, which is in the 5-8 million range (2.9% of the total U.S. population of 281 million). Seven states accounted for 73 percent of the undocumented population: California, Texas, New York, Illinois, Florida, Arizona and Georgia.
http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/ statistics/illegalalien/
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/ mexico/20030131-9999_1n31immig.html
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/QTTable?ds_name= DEC_2000_SF1_U&geo_id=01000US& qr_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U_DP1
RIGHT ON,BOBBY IN 3rd WORLD AMERICA!! THESE PEOPLE THINK WE OWE THEM.I WONDER IF WE WOULD GET FREE MEDICAL CARE IF WE SLIPPED ACROSS THE BORDER INTO MEXICO?i WONDER IF THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT WOULD ENCOURAGE ITS CITIZENS TO LEARN ENGLISH,“TO MAKE US FEEL AT HOME?”. I SURE AS HELL DOUBT IT!
Hey, Bobby:
Do you know why Mexico doesn`t have an olympic team?Because every damn Mexican who can run,jump,or swim is living in the U.S.!
A Believer of Democracy (MOB RULE) and the Rule of Law (As long as it
I left Santa Cruz, California because my daughter who was in the downtown public elementary school was being attacked by Mexican kids who didn’t live in the school district. This is a suburban 95% white community where the public elementary school is 90% Mexican. I don’t believe illegal aliens collecting illegal welfare, going to an out of area school illegaly, should be attacking the white kids… I don’t believe this is a right, but rather a violent aggressive act condoned by Mexico. It is a war, whether the greedy, lazy, paid off, and threatened by gangs politicians say so or not. These same Mexicans are taking our jobs and buying homes by living 20 to a residence. When I first went to school, I had Mexican friends…now they are gang bangers and we stay the hell away from them. It is a war and I am armed and ready.
AMERICANS STOP INVADING PANAMA, VIETNAM, CUBA, IRAK etc.
You get what you give, you americans, USA, are invading the fucking world, you’ve got military bases in every country, stop crying about your desperate situation, you organize military putches every 3 years. And don’t forget that you are living in an occupied Land which belongs to AMERICAN INDIANS. STOP your HYPOCRISY.
Sure, we Americans have empathy for the Mexicans that come to the United States seeking employment, why do you think that our government turns a blind eye? Because we know that they need employment just like the next guy and traditionally they are the ones that do the labor in our orchards, fields, etc. So the Mexicans can’t say that we don’t have a heart. And for those who claim and bellow that America is made up of immigrants who came here for a better life, here is what I have to say as a Native American. So listen! Sure, most of America’s ancestors and forefathers migrated here from Europe a long time ago; but they also (by the grace of God) are the people which helped make this nation great and prosperous. They didn’t come here wanting a piece of the pie, they didn’t come here looking for streets paved of gold. They came and worked hard! They were God fearing people and this nation is now blessed, a nation under God. The problem with the “present” immigrants (mostly illegal) is, they WANT a piece of the apple pie, they come expecting streets of gold. They consider it their right, which it isn’t, cause this isn’t their country. They are essentially, American “wannabes”. I am getting sick and tired of looking for work, only to find in the newspaper, “bilingual speakers need only apply”. This is America! The immigrants from other nations need to learn English! The face of our country is changing, it is becoming an extension of Mexico. Bush needs to do something, I support him and admire him but I will vote for someone else, if he doesn’t do something about this illegal immigration problem. And another thing! Why is it that the only advocates for “undocumented” (don’t you mean “illegal”?) immigrants have hispanic last names? Aren’t these Mexican Americans, sensitive to our nation’s problems, like the immense influx of illegal immigrants (like the Mexicans)? It wouldn’t be so bad if the Mexicans (illegal immigrants) weren’t so BLATANT, they don’t try to adopt our ways and learn English, no we have to learn Spanish!
To “peace on the world” Shut up! I don’t see any other country, and probably not yours, policing the world, other countries don’t have the money or the guts to police the world. If you don’t like Americans, tough luck, they will probably save your butt one of these days!
I read many of the comments on this story, and I am concerned by the amount of blame shifting, assumptions, and even blatant racism displayed. Many argue that illegal immingrants or migrant workers are stealing jobs and services meant for [white] Americans. I can’t speak for the economies in areas close to the border, but I do know that the Bush administration is certainly wreaking more havoc on many of the freedoms, rights and services that Americans (citizens or not) currently enjoy. Take a look at the immense cuts in funding to education, the swandiving economy, and the lessened aid for the poor (legal citizens) in this country. I just think that we need to examine the way our administration is handling (or not handling) this situation before placing blame on a group of people who are simply fleeing economic instability only to find hatred and loathing in the place the have fled to. I understand that illegal immigrants are technically criminals, but I also believe that it is unfortunate and simply untrue to catergorize these people with rapists, murderers, and drug dealers. The social climate for the poor in this country encourages criminality, whether the poor are legal or not. Violence and finger pointing are not a way to solve anything. Instead, we need to better inform ourselves and try to solve these problems by changing the way our administration deals with them and by showing some compassion.
what a bunch of assholes. a few random ideas:
—several posted comments state that because illegal immigrants are here illegally, they do not have any rights. this is incorrect, they merely do not have all of the rights that citizens have.
—how can you blame desperately poor people for sneaking into the united states in the hopes of providing for their families? it is true that this is illegal, but is this immoral? wouldn’t you do the same if you were in their shoes? why are you angry at the illegals themselves?
—nearly EVERY one of the idiotic racist claims made here about illegals and mexicans, i.e. “they’re lazy, violent, criminal, they’re in gangs, they deal drugs, they don’t want to learn english, they’re taking over, they don’t want to assimilate,“etc. have been made about immigrant groups for centuries. such claims have been made about groups such as irish-, german-, italian-, and polish-americans. racist sentiment existed against these groups; they were not considered white.
—finally, i’d just like to say to foreigners reading this that the hateful posts here are from angry, idiotic extremists and in no way represent the views of the normal americans
legal and illegal aliens have more rights that the native americans. the government spends billions on thses non-americans while most of the people on the reservations are living in poverty. why doesn’t the government help those that belong here instead of those that don’t.
when aliens come here they should have to know how to read and write english. most don’t and never do learn the english language and when they get into trouble they use their ignorance as and excuse. teachers in the school have to teach them in their own language when they should be taught in english.
legal aliens can get state and government while elderly americans can barely get by each month. if we got rid of all the aliens in the u.s. the government could help the elderly and poor with health care.
The electoral college only chooses the President, but they cast their vote for the President on a state-by-state basis according to the winner of the popular vote of their respective states. All other elected officials are elected directly by popular vote.
Actually, illegal immigrants are not criminals. U.S. immigration laws are Federal administrative laws. A violation of U.S. immigration laws (e.g., crossing the border without a visa, permanent residence or citizenship) is an illegal act and the person who violates it is an illegal alien. The sanction for violating immigration laws is a loss of immigration rights and/or deportation. When an illegal alien is caught, he or she is temporarily detained (not the same as imprisoned) until he or she gets a hearing before an immigration administrative law judge, who evaluates the facts of the case, decides if the person broke any administrative laws and then determines if he or she should be deported back to the country where he or she is a citizen. Even the illegal alien is entitled to due process before an immigration administrative law judge.
A criminal is someone who violates a criminal law (e.g., murder, rape, theft, kidnapping, drug trafficking, etc.). The sanction for committing a crime can be a fine, probation, prison, or the death penalty. The accused criminal is entitled to a trial by jury and, if convicted, can and often does lose his or her freedom and is imprisoned until he or she serves the sentence imposed by the judge. That is due process in criminal law.
An illegal alien would not become a criminal until he or she violated a criminal law. Solely living in the United States would not make an illegal alien a criminal unless he or she violated a criminal law.
It was an investigative conclusion that the Arizona local law enforcement officials made that coyotes are responsible for the killings based on a theory (i.e., speculation) given the previous immigration violations (illegal acts) of the victims; no one was caught in the act of killing, no weapons were found and there is no ballistic evidence, which means that there is not much evidence that coyotes did it. This suspect investigative conclusion may change should the State of Arizona and Federal law enforcement officials investigate because of the suspicious context of armed “citizen militias” patrolling the border. I am questioning the credibility and lack of evidence of Arizona local law enforcement officials in their investigative conclusion given the endemic problems of racism and corruption in local law enforcement agencies throughout this country, and the hatred and violent tendencies of white supremacist groups, who have a historical track record of vigilantism. The State of Arizona and Federal Government investigations will set the record straight regarding the facts surrounding the murders after searching for more evidence, which might include surveillance of the white-supremacist groups to see if they catch them in the act.
My previous posts referenced immigration and economic studies as well as census and INS data which showed that there aren’t that many illegal aliens in this county, illegal immigration does not have a substantial impact on the economy and it is not the cause of the declining middle class and growing income inequality.
Learn the differences between a fact, an unsubstantiated or false opinion, and a lie (which is an intentional, false statement). I am finally ready to retire from this debate.
For those of you with so much hate in your hearts, I will pray for your souls that you learn to love your Mexican neighbor as you love yourself, and for peaceful relations among all races and ethnicities. Learn compassion, tolerance and charity. That’s what Christ and the Lord would want.
To “A Believer of Democracy” (Mob Rule DUMB ASS, us voting, isn’t what makes it a Democracy.) you’re A Good Pharisee, who calls yourself a “Christian”, you are a liar, and the truth isn’t in you.
And the sad part is, you KNOW it!
Now run along little Pharisee, there’s a WHITE person stoning, that has a pile of rocks with for you to throw! Go in peace little biggot!
Final point of clarification: An illegal act is not a crime. Illegal acts are violations of civil or administrative laws. Immigration laws, as administrative laws, are not penal in nature (i.e., meant to punish); they are meant to regulate the amount of foreign nationals admitted to this country for the purposes of visiting or living here permanently. Criminal laws are penal in nature, meant to punish (i.e., retribution) criminal behavior as defined by statute (e.g., murder, rape, theft, assault, battery, sale or possession of drugs, etc.) through imprisonment and loss of freedom. Peace, love and nonviolence to all!
O’l Good Christian is a real immigration information computer! But there`s something wrong with this ‘information computer’.It is infected with a liberal virus!This person is a liar when they say they are ‘A believer in the rule of law’.Liberals believe in the rule of law when they can bend it to fit their agenda.Yes, I agree that our fore fathers took the land from the Indians.But we were born here.We can`t help that.It`s just like the liberals thnk we should give all black people who had ancesters who were slaves millions of dollars.Slavery was an evil national tragedy,but I`m not responsible for what my ancesters did.I don`t owe black Americans anything except an equal chance to succeed,and respect.Same liberal argument on gun control.Liberals would love to see all law-abiding Americans lose their gun rights.They want us to pay the price because of lunatics who commit murders with guns.And they say to hell with immigration laws that would stop wave after wave of illegal Mexicans from crossing our borders.They see issues in shades of gray,rather than clear-cut black-and-white.
The flood of Illegal Mexicans is costing the citizens of this country MILLIONS of $$$ everyday just in health care. Who do you liberals think pays their medical expenses ? We do thru ever increasing health insurance costs. Hospitals simply pass the costs on to the paying customer <read insurance carriers>, who pass it on to the insured <read you and me>.
I am not saying this is the only reason for growing health care costs, but it does have a large impact. Even here in Michigan, far away from the southren border.
Mr. Simcox has my support 100%.
If I lived in AZ. , I’d join him on his patrols.
Mr. Good Christian piousness causes me to genuflect every time I read his passages. It borders on narcissism, for (Christ’s) sake. However, far be it from me tarnish His golden crown or soil his velvet robe. Bless me father, for I too have sinned. Reality check: The rise of gang-related violence here in NJ during the last 10 years coincides with the increase of illegal aliens in this State. Most of the gang membership consists of Mexicans and other groups from Central America and the Carribean (Dominicans, Jamaicans and Haitians in particular). Reality check 2: The school system in NJ and NY is in shambles: over-crowded and ill-equipped to handle the hoards of illegal alien children. Reality check 3: Need I mention the drain on social and health services ? Reality check 4: Has anyone noticed the increase in Americans on bread lines ? I’ve worked in the social service sector in New York for the last 18 years. While I’m intrigued by Mr. Good Christian’s erudition and eloquence, He must remember that: No good deed goes unpunished. For the last 40 years, the US has undergone a change which has turned the country from a well-defined Republic to an open market democracy—a way station for the transient Nationalist. Note the increase in this country of people who have dual-citizenship. Note people who retire and return to their countries of origins. I’m privy to the hundreds of thousands of pension and social security checks that are mailed monthly OUT OF THE COUNTRY !
If Mr. Good Chrisitian thinks that the hordes of aliens crawling across the border are going to become good upstanding citizens, valuing the achievements of the individuals whose sweat and blood made this country great, He’s in for a rude awakening. As a former Jesuit student, I am well aware of the intoxication of theology, especially within the Christian concept. This “corporate society” demands its adherents follow the living Christ—all must be suffering servants. That’s what makes a good chrisitian. Jesuits are root missionaries. The purpose was to educate the masses about Christianity and at the same time educate and intellectualize. Mr. G.C. sounds like a Luthern. , since Chritianity is too broad a definition. Fides and fiducia- intellect coupled with child-like devotion to the “Redeemer”. The commonality in the writings of Martin Luther (95 Theses; Appeal to the Christian Nobility of the German Nation) and Ignatius Loyola and Francis Xavier are those of rigid scholasticism. I know I’m far afield in this discussion, but I just wanted to point out that no matter what information is brought to the table , Mr. G.C. will counter and justify His point of view, concession being minimal to zilch. Understand what He means by saying He is a “good chrisitian”- we’re not unless we accept the unacceptable. Predestination vs. free will.
BTW, least anyone think I’m another (yawn) “white, racist , backwoods yahoo”, I’m not. I’m an American of African descent, Vietnam-vet, with a Masters in Public Administration. I’m also fed up with the PC garbage that has bogged down this country for the last 40 years. I was at work in downtown NY on 9/11. I was one block from the Trade Center, was buying a coffee at the breakfast cart when the first plane hit , watched the bodies fall, and was there when the buildings fell. For an few hours, there was no government, police or United States—just people helping each other. No PC, no racist reverends, or Hollywood celebrities. No peace marchers, or limo driving, millionaire liberal politicians. No ACLU, La Raza, no leftists, or ‘60’s leftovers. No text-book revisionists who claim historical white males are the source of all evil or “conservative blacks” is a contradiction in terms. Just people, now fearful people, who are watching our way of life deteriorate because our government has given up and given in. Got bullets?
Just one more salient point: The land was never taken from the Indians. “Natives” did not believe or understand that nature could be “owned”. Our manifest destiny was to aquire and incorporate, not displace, as written by the forefathers in the Federalist Papers. They also believed that natural resources should not be held hostage, thereby depriving a nation of it’s manifest destiny (by God) to progress for the good of it’s citizenry. We don’t want another countries oil resources, because we believe it is a world resource. But because we respect that the resource lies within that nations borders, we, as a capitalist nation, believe in commerce. A fair market price for a necessary commodity. However, deprive us of a resource, refuse to reasonably bargain, then, well, war is justified. Oil companies were bought up (by majority stock) back in the ‘40’s by the Arabs and has been held since. We woke up to the reality of “hostage taking” back in the ‘70’s with the oil embargo. Never again.
Illegals are illegals, plain and simple. And yes, many other countries are having the same illegal migration problems and they are doing something about it too, haven’t you been reading the papers? Sure, these third world people want to migrate to a prosperous nation “for a better life”, but ENOUGH is enough! Stay home, most Americans are fed up, can you blame them?! And please stay on the subject!
B. White,
You put it exactly as it is! Mexicans want to turn this into the United States Of Mexico and they will eventually succeed, unless someone stops them! God bless Chris Simcox!
I am saddened by the number of ignorant and hateful people who claim to represent the way of the right America. I work with immigrants daily. They pay taxes, own homes, own businesses (that employ Americans), they obey the law, respect others, and are simply trying to better their lot in life and to give their children a chance at a future where sufficient food, shelter, and education are not dreams. This includes those that came in illegally. Given the chance any one of them would pay any amount of money in fines/fees to become legal. If the immigration laws in this country were more lenient, there wouldn’t be a need for violence or hate personified walking the borders.
As for Mexican illegals coming in and taking away jobs from Americans—how many Americans (whites especially) do you know that would work the jobs the illiegals take? How many would work construction for $40 a day, how many want to scrub toilets, clean out deep-fat friers, work as buss-boys, work in the blazing summer sun to make your yard beautiful? All for often less than minimum wage?
K from Atlanta:
Here we go again.People being called ‘mean and hateful’ because some people tell it like it is,instead of having a bleeding-heart liberal opinion!You claim that illegal immigrants pay taxes.You say that illegals obey the laws.First off,illegals DO NOT pay tax.And,if their so good about obeying the law,then why are 37% of all federal prisoners in the U.S. illegal aliens?And the large majority of these are Hispanic.And the argument you make about about ‘illegals doing jobs Americans won`t do,I`ve heard so many times I`m sick of hearing it.The reason they do these jobs,is because THEY DON`T PAY TAXES!!! They get every damn penny they make.If Americans didn`t get their asses taxed off,then,yes,they would be willing to do these jobs too.You say that illegals only want to find food,shelter,and education for their children.
The damn government GIVES them all this,at no cost!! They get food stamps,welfare,and child care FREE! We pay their medical costs for them,too,so they can keep having one child after another.And,as far as our immigration being more lenient,how the hell could it be any more lenient than it is now?No wonder the citizens of Arizona have to patrol their own borders.Our illegal immigrant-loving government won`t stop them.I only wish I could be there to help these citizens protect their property.
There goes Mike Callahan and his cohorts making up statistics again. How many illegal immigrants are there (floods or hordes; now that’s specific!)? How much in services do they use (millions and billions; now that’s specific!)? How much in taxes do they supposedly drain (millions and billions; now that’s specific!)? Cite your sources instead of making up fiction. Like usual arguing in circles unsubstantiated and false opinions.
Illegal immigrants who use fake social security cards pay payroll and social security taxes deducted directly from their pay checks; if they bought homes, then they also pay property taxes. Illegal immigrants who are paid in cash (“off the books”) do not pay taxes. Would you take an off-the-books job at $3-5 dollars per hour without being taxed and with no medical insurance or retirement benefits? All immigrants legal and illegal pay sales taxes. Immigrants legal or illegal are not eligible for welfare and social security disability insurance since the passage of the Personal Responsibility and Work Reconciliation Act of 1996 (the welfare reform law). See the Century Foundation’s Immigration Reform report on the actual fiscal and economic impacts of immigration on this country in statistical terms (the Federal Government collects a net gain from $1-10 billion in taxes): http://www.tcf.org/Publications/Basics/Immigration/Impact.html
See the following web sites on how many illegal aliens there are in this country according to the INS and Census Bureau (5-8 million, just 2.9% of the total U.S. population of 281 million):
http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/statistics/illegalalien/
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/mexico/ 20030131-9999_1n31immig.html
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/QTTable?ds_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U& geo_id=01000US&qr_name=DEC_2000_SF1_U_DP1
See Princeton University economist Paul Krugman’s article on the real causes of the declining middle class and growing income inequality in the US economy, which includes data sources:
http://www.pkarchive.org/economy/ForRicher.html
The U.S. Federal Budget is 2.2 trillion dollars; the U.S. economy is 10 trillion dollars (http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2004/). Millions and billions are small percentages of 2.2 and 10 trillion dollars. Learn statistics and the meaning of SUBSTANTIAL impact.
A RESPONSE TO k from Atlanta: Yeah, k. I used to work with Mexican immigrants, legal and illegal, at a furniture factory in Elkin, N.C. They started hiring them as temps to help out because all us white and black folks working there was collecting too much overtime pay! I started out at about $6.50 an hour, and was making the same when I was ‘let go’ about a year later. It was actually my second stint there, as I left the first time because I did not get a raise for the year and half I worked there the first time. Isn’t it astonishing that so many high school grads like me had to settle for such a low paying job? Well, the temps make a lot less, so by the time I was gone, a lot of my friends and neighbors were gone, too. After firing me, they then told the unemployment office that I ‘quit’. I got my unemployment because I proved they were total liars. I still have a few friends, both white and black, hanging on, but there days are numbered. The company in question was cited at least once for hiring illegal, undocumented workers, before I worked there the second time. Please quit repeating the same lies about how Mexican immigrant workers don’t take American jobs away from American workers. The mexicans who work for this company now, do not work any harder than the white and black people they replaced; just cheaper…...........if you can’t think for yourself, don’t bother posting. Its not a racial issue. Its an economic one. American needs Mexico to take care of the mexicans…......
The real problem with this country is that only 15.5% of the population has college degrees (http://factfinder.census.gov/bf/_lang=en_vt_name= DEC_2000_SF3_U_DP2_geo_id=01000US.html). In this information age and knowledge-based economy, those with only high school diplomas fall further and further behind the college educated in pay and job security. For more information on the nature of the U.S. economy, see: http://factfinder.census.gov/bf/_lang=en_vt_name= DEC_2000_SF3_U_DP3_geo_id=01000US.html
The lesson learned: invest some time and money into going to college. Don’t blame others for your life decisions.
A Response to: A Good Christian in the USA…......I love people like you; you dig up all kinds of great stuff to support your point of view, but you fail to provide the solution to the overall problem, namely, what do we do about illegal immigration? You obviously don’t work in a coal mine, factory, or restaurant, or you would see a large number of white and black faces staring back at you. Its a myth that Americans don’t take low wage jobs, a myth perpetuated by the people who employ immigrants to keep labor costs down, and by our government, who is owned by big business and special interest groups. You apparently work in the same offworld fantasy land that k from Atlanta does, where we are all one big happy family that helps out the poor mexicans by offering them out worst labor opportunities. Apparently the displaced American workers (white, black, or other) are all a bunch of lazy racists, whining because of unfair competition for jobs they would not do anyway. The Americans who work these sweaty, dirty, and low paying jobs do so because they have families to provide for and bills to pay, just like you. I worked in factories for years, for crappy wages, slow raises, and few benefits. NOT CONVINCED? My brother works in construction. My nephew at a steel mill. I have friends who work at a factory I used to work at in Bristol, Va., recapping tires. I have friends working at my old loading dock job, loading trucks by hand for a living. I have a few left at the furniture plant, none of them making a fortune. All are high school grads, some with a few years of college, just like me. All of these jobs are hot, sweaty, hard, time-consuming, non-salary, and low pay. Your attitude is a slap in the face to every American that works for a living. You repeat the same lies that you have been told like drunken parrot, because its easier to believe than to admit the truth. You can cite anything you want to support your point of view, but unless you’re willing to get down in the ditch and get your hands dirty, you’re just making yourself look self-righteous and ignorant. I quietly wonder what you do to pay your bills, and just where the hell you get off thinking you know what its like to kill yourself to get by…..........I DON’T EXPECT YOU TO AGREE WITH ME. I JUST WANT YOU TO STOP REPEATING THE LIES….........
What are the differences between a fact, an argument with supporting facts and evidence, an unsubstantiated opinion, a false opinion, and a lie? Please define them. Obviously, some people can’t figure this out.
......Dear ‘A Good Christian in the USA’......apparently, you got your degree. I have a couple years of college, but had to quit to support my family when my Dad died. I have friends with certifications and degrees. They work, but not in their field of study. One of them is an accountant. You presume that everyone that is not up to your level of success is a loser who made the wrong life decisions. You also presume to think that everyone who gets a degree gets the quick road to success. You also presume that everyone has the intelligence, aptitude, and opportunity to go to college. You presume way too much! You confuse the issue: these people coming into our country, have a negative impact on our lives! Everyone understands their plight, but you’re saying that we all have to accept them coming here and go retrain if we lose our jobs. The fact that American citizens are detaining these people on their own should indicate how desperate they believe the problem is. You are clearly not personally affected by illegal immigration. IF ONLY THE REST OF US COULD LIVE IN YOU SECURE LITTLE WORLD! Your problem is that you haven’t had enough bad shit happen to you. Well, in the name of God, curse you! Let the wheel come on around for your turn at misery. Let you have your turn at unemployment. Let you realize your education needs a little more retooling. Let all the bad that could happen to you, happen to you, so you might understand. If God is just, he will make you understand what its like to try so hard, and still fail. Its your turn. I hope it comes around for you real soon…........
border militias are vigilantes (unsponsored by government or any branch of law enforcement) that confuse the consequence of the problem with the actual issue. our foreign policy dictates that illegal immigration be a problem. perhaps if we first turn the focus on what our people and government does, then illegal immigration could be solved.
‘What are the differences between a fact, an argument with supporting facts and evidence, an unsubstantiated opinion, a false opinion, and a lie? Please define them. Obviously, some people can’t figure this out.’
Posted by: A Believer in Democracy and the Rule of Law on 2.7.03 | 11:28 pm from A Good Christian in the USA…..........................................I’m not trying to refute your facts, and they may well be accurate, but insinuate that what I am saying is less than truthful. The people and places meantioned in my posts are real; don’t refute my life experiences as if its all a HBO movie, just because you have a degree and don’t have to struggle anymore. Its great that you had the opportunity to go to school and work hard enough to succeed at it; try not to forget the rest of us, who want to do better, but are having a hard enough time as it is, without the added competition from third world refugees. Its obvious you’ll be in a Mansion in heaven, while people like me will be lucky to scrub the floor(or do all poor or unlucky bastards who make wrong ‘life decisions’ go to Hell?).............
The extensive networking these border militias have done is at once evident and cause for concern. The fact that so many posts in opposition to this article seem to come from supporters of the groups indicates a concerted effort to delegitimize the article by virtue of volume. What it all boils down to is that were these white men to be interested in an actual solution, they would not be so strongly opposed. They also belie their lack of both insight and understanding of global politics. Were they to open their closed minds for even a minute, the knowledge they would receive could be enough to turn them into the next internal terrorist cell. Why does is make sense to turn your anger and frustration on a group of people that are simply doing the American thing by actively pursuing their only option for a better life? It only makes sense from a prejudiced perspective. To those that believe illegal immigrants take jobs away - first of all, many jobs that illegal immigrants end up with are jobs that other Americans simply won’t take. but secondly, and most importantly, the reason business will fire rather than pay overtime is because it is inherent in capitalism to find the cheapest labor without concern for where it comes from. In this way, profits are maximized, and the people at the top benefit at the expense of everyone else, nationals and immigrants alike. If border militias truly wanted to turn the situation around, the results could kill two birds with one stone. By requiring that our businesses be held accountable to the people that make them run, not only would job placement favor nationals, but it would do so by requiring that businesses that take and take from our neighbors to the south are equally accountable to them. In that way, maybe the need to run away wouldn’t exist. But no. Border militias choose to put effort and financial backing into something that is clearly racist and yet another ill effect of a patriarchal, religiously zealous country. No one denies that drugs are a serious issue on the border, but there are more people just trying to survive than are trying to bring drugs into the United States. Furthermore, why don’t you militias attack the problem of a market for drugs in this country. As a final comment, I challenge each and every border militia member to become an illegal immigrant for a night, unarmed, and without drugs, and tell me then that these groups do not violate basic human rights with their actions.
Bobby, I am not saying your experience is not true. I am questioning that it is the norm. Five to eight million people are not taking away all of the jobs of 280 million people.
You don’t know anything about my life experience, so you shouldn’t presume anything about it. My parents started out poor, worked manual labor jobs, saved as much money as they could, and made sure that I took education and work seriously. I had to work while going to college and have had my share of undesirable low-paying jobs. I don’t think anyone is exempt from going through hard times. I am grateful to God for what I have today and I am still not immune from financial difficulties as the cost of living (especially housing) keeps increasing dramatically. I just don’t think that we should use our difficult experiences to blame illegal immigrants for all our country’s problems, which are actually rooted elsewhere: in the management of our economy by corporate business leaders. I apologize for offending you if you thought that I was making fun of your life experience and difficulties.
Both illegal immigrants and U.S. blue collar workers are victims of corporate restructuring to export high-paying manufacturing jobs abroad to take advantage of Third-World wages and playing off U.S. citizens against illegal aliens to drive wages down for jobs here in the U.S. to increase profitability for owners and shareholders. This is why corporations always lobby and block Congress from criminalizing the penalties for hiring illegal aliens. Corporate leaders get civil fines, but no criminal convictions or imprisonment for hiring illegal aliens. We should focus our energy on the management of our economy and work for real campaign finance reform so that politicians are not captives of corporate lobbies.
Ungrateful mexicans, we sent them our jobs, without the burden of social security taxes, medical insurance or the interference of those damned safety regulators. They get all of those chemicals developed in the U.S. which real Americans aren’t even allowed to have anymore. We sell them subsidized crops so that their farmers can relax and not try to grow crops for profit, and help support their beloved police/army
which protects their present levels of freedom.
These ingrates act as if we keep them as Uncle Sams personal slave population. No wonder the waters of the Rio Grande don’t want to go there anymore.
Proud to be an American.
Hey,Bobby from N.C.:
You hit the nail right on the head in your replies to ‘Good Christian” about college education.Did you know that the states of California and Texas now pay a big part of the tuition costs of illegal Hispanics?Good Christian will probably denie this too,but you can check if you don`t believe it.I believe one of the schools in Texas that does this is Texas A&M.By the way.You said you worked in Bristol,Va.I am from Bristol,Tennessee,now living in Marion,N.C.But,check on what I said,just to see if I`m right about tuition.And,it seems that the University of Texas also does this.Must be nice!
Posting Security