The following edited transcript is excerpted from an interview with Studs Terkel recorded for 848, a radio show on Chicago's WBEZ.

Over the years, we've heard scores of Studs Terkel's conversations gathering the thoughts and experiences of others. But this time, we wanted to hear Studs' own reactions and analysis of the tragic events of September 11.
My first reaction was horror, horror—the tragedy, of course. Naturally, this has been well-covered by the press, the TV and radio. But my first reaction was one of: It happened. The United States is no longer an impregnable fortress that it always thought it was.

How do you feel about comparisons made between what happened and the World War II bombing of Pearl Harbor?
You can't compare that act with World War II. Einstein, the man I'd love to quote right now—I love to quote Albert Einstein because no one dares contradict me—Albert Einstein was Time magazine's cover boy as the "man of the century." Einstein, the man who split the atom, said, "The whole world since the atom's been split, since Hiroshima, the whole world has changed irrevocably—except for one thing: The way we think."

We still think in those old terms of wars, of boundaries, of us as the righteous ones. When we bomb people, it's for the good of the world and for the good of themselves. And he said unless we think anew, peace is indivisible. What happens in Guatemala or in the Middle East affects us. It hasn't really affected us as persons. Shortly after the bombings, we were on the 55th floor of Bank One [in Chicago]. My son had to see a lawyer. And we were practically the only ones on the floor. And all I saw were these long corridors, empty—it was out of a Bergman film, surreal. And down below, all the people, all crowded, all jamming, all going home. They just wanted to go home. As though they were refugees. We see refugees. It has no effect on us. We're used to them, there—the distant country, but not us. And now the lesson to be learned is that peace is indivisible.

One of the things that Bush has said, I'm paraphrasing now, "It's very black or white. There is a good guy and a bad guy. We've got to get the bad guys." Do you think that's a simplification?
I think it's horrendously simplistic. The bad guys, that's the point: the good and the bad guys—who are the bad guys? I pick up the papers and unanimous letters to the editor: "Let's go. It's war. Let's go. Pearl Harbor."

Who are the bad guys? They are obviously nutty, loony, vile individuals. Massive retaliation, is that it? Should we bomb Iraq (as we've been doing, by the way)? Who do we bomb? Do we bomb the Afghans? They were our allies, by the way. They were our heroes during the Cold War. ... Who do we bomb? Who do we hit? Are we so hungry to hit somebody rather than face the situation? What caused the situation to enable these madmen to do what they did?

What do you think a 20-year-old today might think about this compared to how you felt as a young man when America was engaged in World War II?
That's what I mean by having a national Alzheimer's disease. The young need to be told about what led to World War II to begin with, the war that had to be fought against fascism, of course, and I was patriotic and I was stateside—limited service for a year—but many of my colleagues and friends were in it. That had to be fought. To compare World War II with now makes no sense, because the world has been altered considerably since. We were the only country in the world that was not affected by the war, and until this moment we never thought about being invaded.

So how will this series of tragic incidents affect the American spirit?
I think the American spirit is strong. It has always been there. The American spirit I think is as rich and vital as ever. We're facing a certain challenging moment as though it were a test for us, a test of our intelligence as well as our, may I use the word, humanity. And that we should recognize as a nation of humans that not everything our government does is right. When we go to war it's us, we got to go. "My country right or wrong" is not right. There is an old saying: "My country right or wrong, but if it's wrong, let's set it right." And that's what Americanism is really all about.

Copyright 2001 WBEZ Alliance Inc.