The ITT List
Monday Nov 8, 2004 9:14 am
Vidal Responds
After I interviewed Gore Vidal for In These Times and Fire on the Prairie, I asked him if he would reply to a few post-election queries. On November 4th, he faxed me this response to the question: Did you expect that George W. Bush would be re-elected, and that so many Americans would vote for him?
Vidal: No. And no again. The record of failure in almost every department should have ensured Bush's defeat. The increase in voter registration should have provided Kerry with an ample victory. Instead the increased numbers made it possible for religious zealots to outnumber ordinary citizens who are merely interested in war and peace and jobs. I missed this phenomenon even though a quarter of a century ago I predicted that it would come to pass. Instead of ignoring the awful rhetoric of '04, I should have reread myself in the January issue of Playboy 1979. Nixon's Southern strategy was still underway without the master himself, benefitting the right wing Republicans in states of small population but sufficient electoral votes to outweigh the great states.
In 1979 I quoted the Conservative Caucus's Howard Phillips: "We're going to go after people on the basis of their hot buttons." In the past year [1978] the two hottest buttons have proved to be sexual: ERA and gay rights legislation... elsewhere in the badlands of the nation, one Richard Viguerie is now the chief money raiser for the powers of darkness. In 1977 Viguerie told Congressional Quarterly, "I'm willing to compromise to come to power. There aren't 50 percent of the people who share my view, and I'm willing to make concessions to come to power." That has a familiar Nuremberg ring. Viguerie is said to have at least 10 million names and addresses on file. Viguerie is not just a hustler, he is also an idealogue. "I have raised millions of dollars for the conservative movement over the years and I am not happy with the results. I decided to become more concerned with how the money is spent." He is also beginning to discuss the creation of a new political party (the W Republicans?). " I want a massive assault on Congress in 1978 in a way that's never been conceived of...." Move against Congress? That sounds like a revolution, I wrote. As it was, 1978 came and went. Viguerie kept a low profile.
Two days after the recent election, headline in the New York Times: "Some backers of Bush say they anticipate a 'revolution.'" I scanned the first column of the story.
I asked Vidal if he could see any bright spots on America's political landscape over the next 4 years.
Vidal: Do I see any bright patches on the horizon as you ask? That will depend on the unity of resistance we make as we gather about the tree of liberty.
Vidal: No. And no again. The record of failure in almost every department should have ensured Bush's defeat. The increase in voter registration should have provided Kerry with an ample victory. Instead the increased numbers made it possible for religious zealots to outnumber ordinary citizens who are merely interested in war and peace and jobs. I missed this phenomenon even though a quarter of a century ago I predicted that it would come to pass. Instead of ignoring the awful rhetoric of '04, I should have reread myself in the January issue of Playboy 1979. Nixon's Southern strategy was still underway without the master himself, benefitting the right wing Republicans in states of small population but sufficient electoral votes to outweigh the great states.
In 1979 I quoted the Conservative Caucus's Howard Phillips: "We're going to go after people on the basis of their hot buttons." In the past year [1978] the two hottest buttons have proved to be sexual: ERA and gay rights legislation... elsewhere in the badlands of the nation, one Richard Viguerie is now the chief money raiser for the powers of darkness. In 1977 Viguerie told Congressional Quarterly, "I'm willing to compromise to come to power. There aren't 50 percent of the people who share my view, and I'm willing to make concessions to come to power." That has a familiar Nuremberg ring. Viguerie is said to have at least 10 million names and addresses on file. Viguerie is not just a hustler, he is also an idealogue. "I have raised millions of dollars for the conservative movement over the years and I am not happy with the results. I decided to become more concerned with how the money is spent." He is also beginning to discuss the creation of a new political party (the W Republicans?). " I want a massive assault on Congress in 1978 in a way that's never been conceived of...." Move against Congress? That sounds like a revolution, I wrote. As it was, 1978 came and went. Viguerie kept a low profile.
Two days after the recent election, headline in the New York Times: "Some backers of Bush say they anticipate a 'revolution.'" I scanned the first column of the story.
Exulting in their electoral victories, President Bush's conservative supporters immediately turned to staking out mandates for an ambitious agenda of long-cherished goals, including privatizing Social Security, banning same-sex marriage, remaking the Supreme Court and overturning the court's decisions in support of abortion rights.Now comes the revolution. Richard Viguerie, the head of conservative direct mail, told about a dozen fellow movement stalwarts: "If you don't implement a conservative agenda now, when do you?" Good question.
I asked Vidal if he could see any bright spots on America's political landscape over the next 4 years.
Vidal: Do I see any bright patches on the horizon as you ask? That will depend on the unity of resistance we make as we gather about the tree of liberty.
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I remember that Playboy interview. I also remember several articles in Playboy in the late Seventies or early 80’s (my memory isn’t THAT good), in which they talked about the upcoming conservative movement within the Republican Party.
In the late 80’s there were additional articles in Playboy stating that ultimately the Republican Party would face a “cultural war” within itself, as the religious right exerted more and more control.
I think it’s safe to say that if that time isn’t here now, then it is indeed very close.
But, what people outside this agenda, including those outside of the Republican Party, need to realize is this.
The end result of that revolution will impact ALL of us. So it is important to pay attention and stay INVOLVED.
There are articles in Playboy?
Private SS - people being responsible for themselves. Some of us are already “practicing?” with 401Ks and IRAs. Yes, this may be a good thing.
Banning gay marriage? No can do - gay marriage is like army intelligence, an oxymoran. I think it would be hard to believe that the founding fathers considered that one of the rights spelled out in the constitution!
Banning abortion? Just a matter of time. As people are forced to become more familar with the actual process (see the current Harpers article, for instance) i doubt the support is going to do anything but diminish, at least for fetuses in the second or third trimester.
Remaking the Supreme Court? Not the first time and not the last. The pendulum swings both ways in its own time.
Actually all of this looks pretty good to me. What exactly is the problem with such initiatives?
I wanted to believe that Bush would lose based on all the mistakes he made, based on how obvious it was that the working man would be smart enough to care about the real issues that affected his wallet. But I knew it was a long shot because the Republicans, through Karl Rove, were very clear about what they stood for, and the Democrats were not. At least not in the minds of the masses who kept this clown in power. These masses, regardless of political affiliation, have been hard-wired since birth by the tyranny of governments and corporations. I think American is on its way to a New Puritanism and the clues to that are found in what was going on in the 1600’s in Europe. But now I don’t think any historian can predict our movements on this planet which like a virus can mutate into anything. While I lived in America I saw examples each day, several times a day, of how the normal American values faith over reason. And that’s why Kerry lost.
Faith and reason do not intrinically conflict. To hold faith is such disdain makes about as much sense as holding other non-rational emotions in similar contempt. Perhaps we should all eschew love along with faith?
It is these “higher” values that make us human: love, faith, compassion. To embrace them is to embrace the best of our own humanity.
soundsOK—You say the Framers didn’t intend gay marriage to be a protected right, as if that therefore made it alright to ban.
They also didn’t consider blacks full people, nor did they enfranchise women. Amendments to the constitution should be used to extend equal rights to all Americans, not to explicitly deny them to a genetically-determined group.
Douche.
The Bush regime will collapse under the weight of enormous corruption. The already present cracks in the facade will continue to widen. All the king’s men and all of their spin will not be able to put Humpty “W” back together again. The truth will triumph!
In response to comments by SoundsOK.
Social Security. First, privatizing SS. It is easy to understand why many would be interested in this kind of “culture of ownership” as Bush calls it. However, the plain facts against it are equally easy to understand. SS was created to allow even the poor and indigent to have some sort of safety net after retirement. The sad fact is that many and perhaps even most Americans do not have the plain old know how to properly invest and plan for the future. In addition, large groups also don’t have the capital to sustain such investments. Hence, privatizing SS, which any idiot can see would put the program on an even steeper decline. Any reasonable published numbers corroborate this. Certainly a percentage of wealthy and economically savvy Americans would benefit from this while the majority of Americans would lose out in the long term. That is un-American.
Gay Marriage. The whole point of a constitutional ammendment is to deal with something the framers didn’t deal with period. Assuming that gay marriage was not intended by the framers is a good bet. That, however, doesn’t mean that assuming that, given our current uncomfortable position, we should cut tax benefits and accessibility to a dying partner’s hospital bed and numerous other benefits of marriage to a significant segment of the population. Regardless of your morality, that is un-American.
Finally, remaking of the Supreme Court and abortion in particular. You’re right. The Supreme Court swings back and forth. We must buck up and deal with that. However, I too read the Harper’s article. All the way through. I’m hesitant to make any definitive statements, but I’m fairly certain you missed the last 6 or so pages. Remember the references to the “septic backroom abortions” that we might return to were Roe v. Wade overturned? Remember the trifecta of decisions regarding the unconstitutionality of the 2003 Partial Birth Abortion Ban? I’m certain you’re wrong about the inevitability of the issue. The American public are aware that the process is ugly and, though it may make each of us a bit ill to directly confront the reality of the medical procedure, so does a triple-bypass and we aren’t going to outlaw that. Though polls are not the end-all every major poll of the electorate shows that overturning Roe v. Wade would be contrary to public opinion. Abrogating power and ignoring the will of the people is un-American.
Finally, its “oxymoron” and not “oxymoran.”
Yes. There are articles in Playboy.
Damn good articles. Written by some of the best writers and minds in the “free and open” country…for now.
And the magazine provides a forum to ALL views.
It’s a shame that certain people know nothing about the wonderful voice that Hugh Hefner provided to “out of the mainstream” authors, pol scientists and academics, simply because they’re afraid of naked women.
The same conservatives that abhor what they consider an affront to their sensibilities, would probably SUPPORT stem cell research if a way could be found to have babies born fully clothed!
Well, what can I say without sounding boastful. We won! That???s simple enough and not too haughty. We won! ??. And we won BIG this time?? We didn???t just win the Presidency; we won the Senate and the House and the Supreme Court as well. Those idiot Founders who believed in a ???separation of powers??? can suck on it, now. They were probably just a bunch of elitists from New England anyway. Why would we want or need our powers separated? Oh, wait,,,, I know the answer to that: just in case liberals get elected. OK?? I can deal with the concept. But now that the real Americans have been voted into all branches of our government, we can do away with that quaint idea. It might have taken over 200 years, but I think the Founders would be really proud that we???ve finally gotten our country to a point where debate, compromise and accountability are wholly unnecessary. We might as well just do away completely with Congress and the Supreme Court. Too much bureaucracy anyway. Liberals just want to tax us to keep those branches in operation. What a bunch of commies. President Bush obviously has the moral clarity to go it alone, on any issue. And even if some people don???t believe he has the moral clarity to unilaterally lead America into the promise land, they can just go back and look at the election results. That???s right, the election results. If these haters did that, they would see President Bush has a mandate. Uh, huh?? a mandate. That means the whole country agrees with him. Just look at all the red on that election map. Dissenters are stupid. Don???t they know what the red indicates?
So now that we own?? I mean?? control the government; it???s time to put our Agenda to work. We know we must keep gays from getting married. That???s simple. It???s in the Bible. Leviticus, I believe. It says gay behavior is an abomination. What more do you need to know? Well, you might need to know that the Bible states that we can stone these people to death, along with: people who eat shellfish, people who plant more than one crop in their field and children who disobey their parents. Abominationists, we can call them. A new class of criminals. Ah, I love this America better already. It feels good to do Gods will.
Now, since we???ve finally reached a point in our progress as a country where we can finally legislate how the Bible tells us to, we must and I mean must repeal the abolition of slavery immediately. Uh, huh. Leviticus again. 25:14. Now don???t go thinking this means we can ???re-enslave??? colored people (if Liberals ran the country, I???d have to say ???African-Americans???)??. Oh, no?? Leviticus is very explicit. It says you can own slaves providing they come from neighboring countries, not your own. Now, some people say we are already following Gods Will in this regard because we get poor Mexicans to come up here and work for nothing as is, but their just being facieses. We might have worked Mexicans like slaves, but now we???re about to get Biblical about it?? I???m going to put in for a few Canadians myself. They simply are not as lazy as Mexicans. Probably just as dumb, but not as lazy. Liberal Americans are so mean and condescending to those of us in red states I would like to enslave some of them, but it???s not in the Bible so I???ll take the Canucks. And we should implement this ASAP. The quicker we do this, the quicker we can avoid having God smite us for failing to obey his laws.
Now, some people believe that ???the separation of church and state??? in our Constitution means that the government can???t show favoritism to any particular religion or belief system, but that???s just wrong. The reason the Founders put the ???establishment clause??? in the Constitution is so the liberals in government wouldn???t be able to favor Muslims or other foreign religions like the ones that make people gay.
So, where else do we need to take this country? Oh, yeah, women?? women working,
women voting, women speaking, women dressing like sluts. It???s all gotten way out of hand. Paul specifically taught us that God wants men to rule over women. Women are to not speak, or have authority or teach and are to be subordinate to the wants of the husband in all matters: domestic, political and, of course, theological. But, thank God, the line that made a distinction between political and theological has been voted out so these two distinct academic disciplines are now one in the same. Regardless, in the Books of Isaiah, and Timothy and Deuteronomy, it???s pretty clear that we must also condemn women who wear jewelry or groom themselves or dress immodestly. Hmmmm, maybe these books are in the Koran?? no, no, their defiantly in the Bible. Hey, maybe the Koran and the Bible aren???t so different after all! If the Taliban just accepts Jesus, then they can have the moral authority to condemn women! I???ve always said that all the evil in the world will go away if we all just accept Jesus?? Anyway, all that Godless, stupid liberal crap about ???women???s rights??? is just plain evil. It???s as if these stupid liberals stand on a mountain and ask God to smite us. Women are to be subservient ???keepers of the home??? whether they like it or not. It???s Gods law. Let???s try to avoid another 9/11, people.
So, I???m happy. Not just happy we won, but happy the liberals lost?? It???s not just that Republicans stand for all things good and righteous, it???s that liberals stand for stupidity. I mean, what do liberals propose we do as a country? FORCE everyone to go to college or something communist like that? Give away health care to children and old people? See to it that everyone makes enough money to live comfortably and progress? My goodness, if God wanted us to live forever, figure out the mysteries of the natural world, and comfortably progress he wouldn???t have created Heaven, or given us the Bible! People get so worked up about their pain and suffering on Earth, they seem to forget that we can all live-forever in Paradise if we just heed Gods Word. Stupid liberals. Suck up the pain and sickness, it???s part of Gods grace. It???s like liberals want our children to grow up healthy, and smart and secure so they can solve the problems of the world. They must not understand Gods plan. Hopefully this election taught liberals that all you really have to do is pray to make things happen.
Forget the Democrats. They are but a shadow of the party of Roosevelt, Kennedy (Robert, not John), Wellstone, ETC. The Corporate interests own their party as wholly as they do the Republicans, but the Republicans embrace it, while the Dems are uneasy with it. And though there may be some policy differences between the parties, voting for the candidate who will kill and bomb more effectively, but won’t fundamentally question the foreign policy that makes all this killing necessary, is never, never, NEVER going to advance the progressive agenda. The Democrats are the first obstacle to be overcome in the struggle for progressives. They present a FALSE choice, and so co-opt energy, money and votes away from true progressive causes. Much like placing two similar measures on the ballot in an election with the purpose of diluting the votes for change, and the result being that there is no change. The Democrats must be dispensed with first. People will vote for change, for progressive ideas, but a majority will not vote for Republican lite, when they can vote for the real thing instead. People want a vision, not a “plan”. People will vote for those that share their values and morals, and it must be made clear how immoral are most of the Republicans economic policies, foreign policies, and their agenda for the destruction of social programs.
Kenneth D. Brown
After the Democrats are dispensed with the Republicans have be next since both parties comprise one good old buddy club behind closed doors anyway. Then the country can be run by the holy religious order of the likes of Falwell and Robertson, under one Christian fundamentalist rube nation devoted to religious wars against the Islamic world. And one day when our dead world is visited by archeologists from another galaxy they will delight in studying the primitive life-forms that once inhabited this planet.
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