Despite Trump’s Threats, Labor Leaders say They’re Not Going Anywhere

Maximillian Alvarez: Unions in the United States are facing an extinction level event in the second Trump administration. That is not hyperbole, that is a fact. So the real question is, what the hell are workers, unions and the labor movement doing to fight back? And if they’re not doing anything, or they’re not doing nearly enough, then what the hell are they waiting for? These are the essential questions at the center of both of the interviews that you’re about to hear.

In the first interview, I speak with Everett Kelley, the National President of the American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE), which is the largest union representing federal and D.C. government employees. Kelley and I recorded this interview just days after the Ninth Circuit ruling cleared the way for the Trump administration to obliterate union contracts at federal agencies. And in the second interview, I speak with SEIU-West President David Huerta himself, and we talk about the status of his case and about the roles unions must play in the fight against fascism.

Everett Kelley: I am the National President of the American Federation of Government Employees, representing 820,000 federal and D.C. government workers.

MA: We’re talking just days after the Ninth Court of Appeals lifted the injunction on President Trump’s executive order to strip collective bargaining rights for union government workers at 21 agencies. The attack on collective bargaining for government workers is in full force, starting with the Department of Veterans Affairs. Your union was the lead plaintiff in the case challenging that executive order. Could you walk us through that fight and tell us what this is going to mean for workers?

EK: I must say this has been the darkest seven months of my life, to see federal employees have to go through what they have gone through for no apparent reason other than simply retaliation. It’s very unfortunate that the Supreme Court has lifted the injunction. However, I am grateful they did not rule on the legality of the issue. It gives us an opportunity to litigate whether or not the President has the right to strip federal workers of their union rights and also first amendment rights. We’ve lost some battles, but the ultimate goal is to win the war, and I think that we are on track to do that, because we still believe we have a strong case.

MA: What are people going through right now? Can you impress upon people who maybe still think government workers are protected. 

EK: The image of bureaucrats working in Washington D.C. is so far away from the truth. Only 15% of the federal workforce work inside of D.C. The rest of the 85% work throughout America, and they are providing services to the American people every single day. For instance, the people that inspect and process your food, they’re federal employees. These are your neighbors. These are your relatives. These are the people that make sure the air we breathe is good air, the water we drink is good water. These are not bureaucrats. These are people that are highly educated, highly skilled individuals. American people are going to feel the brunt of these attacks on federal employees. When those services are not there, the American people will suffer. 

They are cutting in an attempt to make it harder for federal employees to perform their jobs, because that way they can say, ​“I’ve told you, the government doesn’t work. We need to privatize government services.” And guess what? Now the billionaires that have supported this administration get rewarded. 

MA: What is it going to take for the labor movement to meet this moment? We don’t have enough union workers to lead that charge with unions alone. What role do you see unions playing in leading that charge, to build a united front for working class people against this onslaught?

EK: We as a union, especially in the federal sector, have to reimagine this moment and how the union fits into this moment. This is a different environment than what we’re used to. We’ve been working with various groups to talk about imagining and restructuring AFGE to fit the moment. This guy came at us with an intent to break us, but we took the opportunity to reorganize our dues structure, and in less than three months, we put 150,000 employees on a new system that belonged to AFGE. We’ve been here for 93 years, fighting these fights, and we’ll be here long after this administration has gone.

MA: Everyone in the labor movement. and so many beyond organized labor, felt a collective chill run through our blood when we watched those videos of ICE agents brutalizing you, arresting you. You, a prominent labor leader. Then they go a step further and charge you with ​“conspiracy to impede an officer.” Could you take us back to that day, remind us of what you were doing and what happened to you, and can you tell us what you can about where things stand now? 

DH: I was there because I have a First Amendment right to be there. I was asked if I could be there because they needed support. I didn’t think twice. I figured I’ll be there, and then I’ll go to my second destination. When I arrived, you can see it in the video, it was a full on operation. What really triggered my emotion that day was just seeing this young girl crying because she knew her father was inside. I really felt the hopelessness she probably felt at that moment. I just felt like this was a moment of taking a stand. 

MA: I want to get real here and talk to you about this, not just as David Huerta, but as two Chicanos from Southern California, two brown kids from the same place. We’ve watched so much of our home change so quickly. Is this the LA, the America, that you grew up in? What is happening right now?

DH: LA is my America. LA is probably one of the best cities, we’ve seen it all. What Los Angeles represents for me is home. It represents the point of origin and a point of departure. It’s where culture is vibrant. Language is vibrant. It’s a very working class city. A lot of people probably see the glamor of LA. I always see the grit of LA. When I was growing up, my father was a Teamster. It has always been a very worker oriented place. When we see what is happening in Los Angeles is people taking a stand and defending their community, defending their families, defending their casinos and defending who they are. For me, that’s the most important thing. Because too often we’re not considered American. We’re hyphenated. This is our response back to those who want to erase us, who want to deny us. You can’t deny us anymore, and we’re going to defend, we’re going to fight.

MH: What can the labor movement do to really help empower people in this fight against authoritarianism?

DH: I think this moment in time calls for labor to really weigh in. We have something that’s unique. We have resources, we have facilities. We have rank and file members. We have standing organization. All those things make us a catalyst right now in creating something. We’re going to have to create disruption, non cooperation, and figure out how we are really destabilizing this authoritarianism. Labor plays a central role in that labor disruption. How can we build the rank and file power? How can we build within worker organization to really build toward mass disruption? How do we lean into that disruption? I firmly believe if there is going to be a disruption, it’s going to start with service workers, because those service workers are the ones who are at the crossroads of this organization, because those are the places where the predominantly Black and brown workers are at. It’s the workforces that represent those workers that are going to be a catalyst and change. 

When I look at SEIU, we’re the long term care workers, we’re the healthcare workers, we’re the janitors, we’re the security officers. We are the service workforce…if we lock arms with other service workers, if we really galvanize and move, we can create disruption big enough to make the change that we need.

MA: Why do fascists hate unions so much? And what role must organized labor play in the fight against fascism and the fight for something better for working people?

DH: We have the collective power to make change. A fascist authoritarian government like we see now is going to try to dismantle that so they have the power to be imposed. We’re going from the billionaire class to the trillionaire class, we’re not very far from that. And the sad thing is that will probably be celebrated, somebody’s wealth that comes at the cost of working people. The fear is that if labor does their job right, we can grow a class consciousness. I tell my members all the time, ​“you have the power.” You have power in your hands, because your hands are the labor that makes this economy function. And the same way you give that power, you can withhold that power as well.

This episode of the Working People Podcast was originally published on August 30.